Teaching beginners: Beehives.

[gavin]

Just another couple of comments on the polys, having been through the bees in them again yesterday. Difficult to scrape off the propolis and brace comb without damaging the polystyrene, especially on the Paynes boxes. I have used a flat-type (stainless steel) hive tool all my beekeeping time. They really aren't suitable for working poly - you need to lever from frame to frame to lift one and not frame to any part of the box. Doubt if I'll ever get used to that. Third thing - no ridge to sit the frame lugs on, so it takes time and effort to avoid crushing bees underneath the frame lugs.

OK, bees may winter well and, after a delay in early spring, generally catch up and overtake colonies in wood. However some of those beekeepers with both types of boxes (Andrew said this on Saturday) welcome the spread in the swarming season and the spread in timing of the peak of colonies that you get when working different hive types. One type may catch a certain flow one year, the other type the next.

[Neils]

My Paynes hives came with metal runners but I agree with you about the longevity and relative fragility of them. I really dont like the sheet when using bottom bee space as its very difficult to place without trapping bees on the top bars. I have persevered with a standard crown board but the roof really needs a good brick to keep it in place, I'm wary if using the straps for fear of breaking the roof with a CB on.

I think I'll be sticking with wood in future regardless of how the bees fare in comparison simply because I'm far from convinced that the poly boxes will still be issuable in a few years time.

[The Drone Ranger]

A big box with lots of frames might not be as easy a solution for big colonies as it seems
I dug out one of my old beekeeping books ( I collected a few over the years)
That was for another thread but interestingly there was a section on operating a Glenn Hive which was by all accounts 15 large frames.
The brood nest most people agree is Rugby ball shape
And as the broodnest shrinks at the end of the season some frames will be filled with honey on either side of the winter broodnest

The difficulty arises at the start of the new season where stores are consumed and the Queen is laying.
There could well be plenty empty combs on either side of the brood nest but if the queen is separated from them by a frame full of stores she wont go there and split the nest.
So people operating these huge hives with all the laying space in the world still had to constantly monitor and move food combs around shuffling combs and spreading the broodnest otherwise swarming caused by lack of space would occur.

I think its easier just to put a second brood box over the first.
Although Nellie tells me that's all wrong and it should go under LOL!

[Neils]

Don't ultimately think it matters in a framed hive and said as much. Nadir or supering seems to work fine.

Maybe I'll try it one day but if I gave a colony two brood boxes of foundation I'd expect them to start in the top box first.

If they filled the lower first fine by me, it's their home.

[The Drone Ranger]

Don't ultimately think it matters in a framed hive and said as much. Nadir or supering seems to work fine.

Maybe I'll try it one day but if I gave a colony two brood boxes of foundation I'd expect them to start in the top box first.

If they filled the lower first fine by me, it's their home.

I've never seen or used a Warre hive don't the bees just brace comb and propolise the frames together between boxes ?

[Neils]

Never used one and no intention of doing so either I've certainly heard mention of having to use cheese wire between boxes of top bar warres.

One pretty important factor that somehow slipped my mind in favour of just slapping a box on top of the existing one is you don't have to move or lift the existing brood box.

[Bumble]

Third thing - no ridge to sit the frame lugs on, so it takes time and effort to avoid crushing bees underneath the frame lugs.

My Swienty polys have an L-shaped plastic frame rest that slots into a horizontal groove. Looking at the Paynes site, pictures of their Nats look as if they have something similar, except it looks as if slots in almost vertically. http://www.paynesbeefarm.co.uk/polys...national-hive/

[gavin]

Oh yes, so they have. Must've modified them since I bought ours just over a year ago. Murray's Swienty National Polys don't have any grooves nor the plastic frame rest as you can see here:

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/en...nty-Poly-Hives

[The Drone Ranger]

Never used one and no intention of doing so either I've certainly heard mention of having to use cheese wire between boxes of top bar warres.

One pretty important factor that somehow slipped my mind in favour of just slapping a box on top of the existing one is you don't have to move or lift the existing brood box.

Maybe if there is brood all the way to the top bar of the existing frames the best place to extend would be up
Allowing the Rugby ball shape
On the other hand if there is an arc of pollen and stores at the top of the existing brood frames perhaps a second broodbox might be better on the bottom

Strangely I've never really given it much thought till you mentioned putting a second box under the first

I use Smiths and by putting a second box on top the little B's often bridge the gap between boxes with drone brood.
Smiths being top beespace wonder if it might be avoided by going under

[Jon]

If the weather is cold such as in early Spring, a colony which has built up quickly would probably be better getting a second brood box underneath to avoid leaving a big empty space to heat above the brood nest. If it is warmer, I doubt if it matters whether it goes above or below.