Drone Mapping Project

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi,
I had an idea that it might be fun to photograph drones from all over Scotland and place them on a map.
Frivolous really and flawed because all the photos would be in different light conditions cameras, resolutions etc.

However that then gave me a better idea
How about collecting a specimen drone from each hive in Scotland and storing them by the year of collection and mapping their characteristics and eventually DNA

Stick with me for now, because I know that DNA mapping is very expensive at the moment ,BUT if we collect samples every year we can use the phenotype data (how do I look is my bum big in this? etc.) for the moment and it might be 20 years down the road from now but someone can borrow a little leg joint or something and map the DNA with 20 years worth of specimens

OK lets say we can do this what's the best method?
A bit of poking around the web and I find 95% Isopropanol would store the samples for years and the DNA would be safe.

Tested that but the problem is when the drone is in alcohol it turns black, OK it comes back to the original appearance when the alcohol evaporates off, it but that involves removing the sample also there is some matting of the body hairs and most importantly all the samples look the same until they are removed from the alcohol

So how about storing the drones in a vial with a couple of crystals of thymol that's cheap but you don't want deposits of thymol on the drone so possibly a stong solution of thymol in alhohol soak a sheet of 300g watercolour paper and allow to air dry then pin the drone to the paper in a small plastic case.

Help Any better ideas on how we can do this ??

I think if it's properly designed it could get some funding so let's work on that assumption that sample collecting phials or cases will be available and need to travel through the post.

[Jimbo]

Hi DR,

Biobanking and collection of samples is big business in Universities and the NHS. The collection container costs peanuts eg 1000 tubes costs about £4.00. The alcohol costs about £5.00 for 2.5 liters. The cost is in postage and long term storage. A -70 freezer that will store about 50,000 samples cost about £6.5 K better still in liquid nitrogen, costs about £30K for about 40,000 samples plus about £6.5k annual running costs. To extract the DNA from your sample about £3.50 - £5.00 per sample. Then you will need to employ somebody to extract the samples. This is only the start. The genotyping type experiments etc can cost anything from £1,000 to £3,000 per run.
You are more likely to get the funding if you are in a collaboration with other EU research centres and share the work.
DNA is also becoming a bit old hat so you may want to be looking at the RNA.
If you are looking for funding £500k - £1M should get you started.
You will also need a good hypothesis

A better idea why don't you just take off the wings and scan them!

[Neils]

I like the idea, but it's also hard not to agree with Jimbo. Someone's got to store the samples (properly).

Could you not combine both photos and wing samples as a low-tech solution? easy to set up and [relatively] cheap, while I don't use it, I have had a tinker with drawwing and the data is relatively straight forward to process as are photos. It is also reasonably easy to "normalise" photos and store the normalised image with the original for comparison purposes.

[gavin]

Great idea, and best to go low tech to start with. Why not try some photographs and see where we get to before all the drones get thrown out (maybe in the next few weeks!). Doing a proper job on drone photography would require a camera with Automatic White Balance and maybe a colour reference card, but that's all a bit technical. Maybe just a check against workers in the hive would suffice? Two more things to consider: you would need a decent sample of drones as the offspring of the queen will vary according to the mix of genes she carries, and drones drift of course.

[Jon]

you would need a decent sample of drones as the offspring of the queen will vary according to the mix of genes she carries

Should the drones from a given queen not all have a very similar genetic makeup apart from some jiggerypokery crossover events during meiosis?

The drifting would be the issue as drones get free passage between colonies.

PS, not going to do a Bispham and claim they are clones!

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Gavin The photos could all be taken when the drones reach a central bank that means the camera lighting etc can be regulated

Jimbo I don't think we could organise a project of £1M but if you take a standard fridge at 5 degrees and samples in alcohol would that not be sufficient

Jon I don't think drifting would matter as much because what you can still establish is the presence of different genotypes in the local population and the drone congregation areas and track the changes over time

Nellie how are the butterfly collections at museums etc protected from falling to bits I haven't got a clue (may be they are just dried out)

Is there another preservation method other than storing in alcohol I was thinking of about £500 to £1000 per year when I say funding for the project :)

[Neils]

I thought those types of collections were just pinned, I've no idea if they're treated with anything before hand, presumably you have to do something to keep the wings open. I'd also assume they're only for visual reference rather than being able to take samples from but that's a level of jiggery-pokery beyond my knowledge.

[chris]

Butterflies are *relaxed* by putting them between damp cloths in an airtight container. When they have softened enough to put them into shape, they are fixed and left until dry. And that's it.

[The Drone Ranger]

Butterflies are *relaxed* by putting them between damp cloths in an airtight container. When they have softened enough to put them into shape, they are fixed and left until dry. And that's it.

Does that work on bees?

[The Drone Ranger]

Haven't found a better idea so I'm going to get one drone from each hive and store them in IPA for this year anyway
Got some nice little tubes from Ebay with a rubber seal 2ml
Isoprop evaporates so easily even sample jars end up empty after 6 months or so

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi DR,



A better idea why don't you just take off the wings and scan them!

Wings useful but bee better :)

I have a few old fashioned chicken pure breeds
The Black Orpington is a breed created by Wm Cook around 1880
The breed was a great egg layer and dual purpose so they were large and good for eating
Some were exported as far afield as Australia where a hen set a record by laying 364 eggs in a single year
Back here in the UK show breeders started breeding for size leg colour beak wings etc.
Today thanks to that breeding we have a UK Orpington that is huge and fluffy and can hardly manage a couple of dozen eggs a year
In Australia they selected for egg laying and those birds are called Australorps
Australorps are rated as good egg layers even now (although these days they are suffering because of show breeding for feathers)
Hence I'm not a wing man myself

[Jon]

An Uncle of mine used to win all the cups in the local poultry shows with his Australorps.
He had a fine selection of Marans as well.
He used to prepare them for show with a hair dryer to fluff them out nicely.

[The Drone Ranger]

An Uncle of mine used to win all the cups in the local poultry shows with his Australorps.
He had a fine selection of Marans as well.
He used to prepare them for show with a hair dryer to fluff them out nicely.

Thing is the better the show bird the more likely they will be useless layers Lol!
I have a couple of Marans who lay for a couple of weeks early in the year and a couple in late Summer they just strut around the rest of the time great big useless lumps :)
I have a couple of Appenzellers a cockerel and a hen He is very showy and so is she but she laid an egg nearly every day for the first couple of years and even now at 5 still lays every other day (smaller birds better layers often)