Queen cell, after queen cell!

[Bumble]

A little cast swarm, probably from a feral colony, given to us mid May. Started off well enough with the help of some syrup.

The weather has been truly awful, with wall to wall rain for weeks, so mating would have been chancy, but at the beginning of June there was a nice patch of larvae and sealed worker brood, but no eggs. We gave them a test frame, which they ignored.

A fortnight later there was a single, new, uncapped, queen cell with a nice fat larva. No sign of any other eggs they could use, so we left it, and them, alone for a bit longer than three weeks because of the almost continuous rain. Should, probably, have left them a bit longer but we're going away at the beginning of next week.

Opened the hive today to find only scattered capped brood, a mixture of both worker and drone. There were a few larvae, but couldn't see any eggs or signs of preparing for them, with nectar and pollen stored almost haphazardly across the frames. And there was a single uncapped queen cell containing a nice fat larva.

Is it likely that this is a drone-layer or a laying worker? We've never had either before, so have no real experience of the signs. Would they make a queen cell from a drone larva?

We have other colonies so can give them another test frame, could buy a mated queen or could combine them with a larger colony - but none of them really need the extra bees.

We're away for a week, which will give us some thinking time.

What would you do?

[gavin]

Doris will be along in a minute to ask how close you are to oilseed rape. If you'd like to wind her up, say no, but you are just down the road from Bayer's UK factory. Tomorrow I'll wish I hadn't written that.

Anyway, look again in 10-12 days to see if that queen cell hatches normally. Yes, they will build queen cells around drones if desperate. But you have some worker brood so there is a queen laying at least some fertilised eggs. I'd think that the first round was your bees knowing they had a poorly mated queen, attempting supercedure, and the attempt failing so they are trying again with an egg from the old or the new failing queen. All might yet come right.

[Bumble]

All might come right yet. - That's what we're hoping, but the year is moving onwards a little too quickly, and is a little too damp.


Doris will be along in a minute to ask how close you are to oilseed rape. If you'd like to wind her up, say no, but you are just down the road from Bayer's UK factory.
No OSR within reach, and "down the road" to Bayer's HO is probably 50 miles or so, but I do know somebody who uses a Bayer diabetes monitor thingy, and a friend was once a medical drugs rep. Oh, and I'm in BBKA and use poly hives, so that's me well and truly discredited!


Tomorrow I'll wish I hadn't written that.
Probably!

[Adam]

If there's worker brood, then we can assume there was a queen in there. As Gavin says, they might come good. The colony may be quite small and if you had a colony with spare brood, a donation of a frame would keep the small colony going on the assumption that you will want it to be strong enough to get through the winter.

[Bumble]

They've got a week, maybe longer if it's still raining when we get back. Here's hoping they'll have sorted themselves out by then.

Must stop being pessimistic, but continuous rain doesn't help!

[GRIZZLY]

No OSR within reach, and "down the road" to Bayer's HO is probably 50 miles or so, but I do know somebody who uses a Bayer diabetes monitor thingy, and a friend was once a medical drugs rep. Oh, and I'm in BBKA and use poly hives, so that's me well and truly discredited!


Oi,Bumble,what's wrong with Polyhives ???. No discredit there.

[Bumble]

I don't think there's anything wrong with poly hives, otherwise we wouldn't have them, but some people like to be a bit loud in disagreeing.

We like them because they're big, well ours are, and they weigh less than wood. They're warm. They can't absorb atmospheric moisture, which is a boon this year when we have had days and days of driving, torrential rain that's soaked its way through every possible nook and cranny, so the bees are dry and their homes can't rot.

We can directly compare them with wooden hives, and this year the poly colonies are doing very much better than those in wood, so much so that we feel a bit mean for not housing all our colonies in poly.

And, thinking about it, this little cast swarm is in a wooden box.

[GRIZZLY]

This year I've re-housed all my colonies (16) into poly hives.The ones I hived into poly last year definately came thro' the winter better than the wooden ones.Used less stores as well.Much lighter to handle.Cheaper to buy than wood even considering I made my own hives,I paid more for cedar per hive than the cost of new polyhives.

[Neils]

I'm still agnostic on mine. I'm concerned about their longevity given the amount of chewing that's gone on so far and their susceptibility to damage from errant hive tools. The colony in it though has built up far faster than a neighbouring hive in wood and has retained more stores, but the bees themselves are a different stock to the ones in wood so I'm not discounting that as a possbility too.

[Jimbo]

Nellie. Do your bees have teeth as well as stings? I have used poly hives for years that were purchased from Denrosa (Sweinty). The density of polysyrene is much higher than used in some polysyrene fish boxes and and you would be hard pushed to damage it with a hive tool never mind with your teeth.

[Neils]

Evidently the payne's poly isn't as dense as they're happily munching their way round the top bars at the moment.

[GRIZZLY]

Evidently the payne's poly isn't as dense as they're happily munching their way round the top bars at the moment.

Nellie they shouldn't be able to chew away the foam if you varnish the top lug recess with several coats of a hard varnish.Is yours varnished or didn't you bother.I've found no damage on my varnished b.boxes and no marking from hive tools either.(Swienty and Modern beekeeping hives . No damage to varnished Paynes neuc boxes either)

[Adam]

I have a Paynes poly and a MB one too. I hadn't considered varnishing bits inside - maybe I need to for the Paynes one as it's softer and more easily damaged. My plan is to sell the MB one - possibly at a local auction next spring so it will need to be empty before winter.
Both colonies grew well in them. Sisters. The third sister has been in a double brood wooden national at a different site and hasn't swarmed (yet) unlike the other two. Consequently it has more honey.

They're of Carniolan descent. MB: 12 frames of brood before queencells. Paynes colony got to 18 frames of brood at one point. Wooden colony about 14.

Maybe I need to try Swienty.

[Bumble]

A quick update.

This littel colony seems to have come good, in the end. they were given another test frame mid-August and now have a laying queen. As a 'scrub queen' she might not be brilliant, but here's hoping she's good enough to get them through to next season.