Sting Reactions

[Neils]

So yesterday I had a reasonably bad reaction to a sting.

Within 15 minutes I was hot, shaking, dizzy, being sick and developed a rather fetching rash and apparently went red as a beetroot. I never felt short of breath or that I was seconds away from keeling over but I did eventually take myself, with the help of a friend off to Hospital to get myself checked out. They gave me a bunch of a steroids and antihistamines kept me in for an hour to make sure I didn't expire and sent met off with a week long course of antihistamines and the somewhat less than helpful advice of "don't get stung if you can help it".

So I guess the question is, should I be considering packing it in? Is a thicker pair of gloves that the bees can't sting through and being far less tolerant of aggressive colonies enough?

Might it just have been a one-off reaction or is that a really silly assumption to make?

I realise that this is an internet forum and the proper thing to do is probably go see my GP before going anywhere near a beehive again, but I've been stung before with no real adverse affects at all and certainly nothing like this so I'd be interested in hearing other peoples experiences and if there are any useful links to what's known about reactions to stings, why it happens and why can get worse.

[HJBee]

Could it be down to the strain of bee etc - I am sure there will be experienced folk far more educated on that than I who will give their views - but to me it's a common sense theory? Glad to hear you are better today, but not that you may feel the need to give it up.

[Neils]

I'm hoping not to have to, but I don't yet know whether I should consider that a warning or a one-off that might not happen again.

I've had stings off that colony before with no issues. That reaction came right out the blue, if anything I thought I was getting less of a reaction to stings up until yesterday. Going to Hospital might have been a bit melodramatic, but I felt it was better to be safe.

[chris]

. Going to Hospital might have been a bit melodramatic, but I felt it was better to be safe.

Your symptoms are the same as I had. The person with me phoned the equivalent of 999, and a doctor talked him through what to do, whilst he immediately dispatched an ambulance to collect me. The round trip for the ambulance was 1 1/2 hours. The first thing they did on arrival was to give me some injections. They wouldn't have bothered with all that for nothing, so no, you weren't being melodramatic.
In my case, the village witch was running around screaming that I was vomiting blood. What a waste of a good Medoc!!
It was the first time I'd had such a reaction, and the rash part covered my whole body. OK, I did have 30 odd stings, but you had the same reaction with one. See a doctor.

[GRIZZLY]

Nellie you need to get in touch with your local allergy testing team to establish if you realy have developed an alergy and,if you have ,take steps to be de-sensitised.One of our local Ass'n members did exactly that and can now handle his bees confident that he's not going to collapse or worse.He also carries an epipen-but these have a limited shelf life so should be replaced regularly.

[Jon]

Gavin went through a desensitization process after developing a severe reaction and that sorted him out.

Was this just a routine sting on the hand?
Not all stings are equal and most of those I get a glancing stings through the nitrile glove or through trousers or a shirt sleeve.
If the bee gets proper contact it can pump a right bit of venom in.

As far as I can tell everyone is different with regard to sting reactions and a reaction can come out of the blue.

[The Drone Ranger]

Gavin went through a desensitization process after developing a severe reaction and that sorted him out.

Was this just a routine sting on the hand?
Not all stings are equal and most of those I get a glancing stings through the nitrile glove or through trousers or a shirt sleeve.
If the bee gets proper contact it can pump a right bit of venom in.

As far as I can tell everyone is different with regard to sting reactions and a reaction can come out of the blue.

That's definitely true most of the stings you get, you will scrape them, or move the cloth, or they come through a glove.
When that happens it's very rarely any reaction other than "ouch" then, like on Casualty, its followed by a set of F's B's and C's

My cat Oliver (sadly gone now) used to regularly bite me (he was bit ill tempered)

Fortunately he only poisoned my hand once when he sunk his teeth into a finger joint
That need a week on antibiotics and a severe reduction in his treat ration to sort out,

Sometimes a bee sting seems to be delivered by an Olympic athlete of a bee, endowed with venom which would not disgrace a tarantula.
It's when one of those monsters finds the equivalent of the finger joint that real pain and swelling seems to result

People often have to be desensitised and oddly its true that people who have been stung hundreds of times can suddenly develop severe reactions to stings.

Old people like me seem less likely to react because their immune systems are not capable of mustering an overreaction to anything LOL!

Grizzly is right though

[madasafish]

Old people like me seem less likely to react because their immune systems are not capable of mustering an overreaction to anything LOL!
h

I wish that was true. :-(..Any sting in soft tissue and I swell.. 8 hour Benadryl helps

[prakel]

I can remember my Grandmother reacting very badly to a bee sting in her early seventies -reaction similar to what Nellie has here described + she took on the tempoary appearance of a barage balloon... Being totally distrusting of Doctors she spent the evening sat in our kitchen waiting for "it to pass". This, a solitary sting from a bee which had settled on a sheet on the clothesline, was after approx 40 years of beekeeping having never previously shown any such reaction whatsoever. I don't think we're ever 'home and dry' where possible reactions are concerned but how many of us really give it regular and serious consideration?

I dread to think of the cumulative number of stings which I've so far got away with but I'm sure it's pretty much a 'numbers game'.



EDIT: I am in no way suggesting that
...spent the evening sat in our kitchen waiting for "it to pass" was (or is) a sensible thing to do.

[GRIZZLY]

I work my bees bare handed so very very occasionly get a sting.I've kept bees for over 40 years now and have never shown any adverse reactions apart at the very start of my beekeeping when I would swell temporily and itch like fury.That lasted over the first year.Subsequently the reactions diminished until I hardly knew I had/have been stung.I also suffer from hayfever and have to take a regular course of anti-hstamines.I often wonder if this contributes to my non reaction or wether regular odd stings have desensitized me.I am keeping everything crossed that I never show a reaction but still believe in barehanded beekeeping.Don't risk it Nellie-go and get de-sensitized.

[Neils]

I will do, it's potentially very annoying I'm not, nor have ever been allergic to anything. I don't even get hayfever.

[GRIZZLY]

The problem with allergies is that they can pop up and start at any time and most unexpectedly.

[Neils]

Well I spoke to the GP. The consistent message I get from the NHS is that I probably know more about bee stings and reactions than they do.

They didn't think off the back off one reaction like mine that it was worth going to an immunologist.

They're giving me a prescription for an epipen just in case and I'm going to go talk to one of the nurses who'll explain the process around that. That and a pack of antihistamines become part of my standard kit by the sounds of it.

[GRIZZLY]

I'd have a word with Gavin and get his opinion.

[Trog]

Local pharmacist was of the opinion that stings vary in makeup and potency throughout the year. GP had little idea how to treat my reaction beyond oodles of antihistamine, cream for the all over itchy sunburn-type rash, and an epipen in case the next reaction was worse! I don't generally pick up many stings as I wear gloves and treat the girls gently but this sting was into my wrist while gardening so no gloves. Was it co-incidence that last year I was sneezing constantly, having never had hayfever before? Then the bad reaction in the autumn?

Haven't been stung so far this year so still waiting to find out what happens with the next one. :eek: Haven't stopped beekeeping as I just can't!

[The Drone Ranger]

I will do, it's potentially very annoying I'm not, nor have ever been allergic to anything. I don't even get hayfever.

I saw a Warre hive in Thornes the other day I'd never heard of it until you mentioned them.

Looks like you would be guaranteed a good stinging if you had to open one :)

I would run down to the hives and get stung again the suspense would be killing me.

[GRIZZLY]

Better the suspense than the sting D.R.

[Neils]

It's not the suspense I'm curious will kill me :D

[Neils]

Well I've read a lot about anaphylaxis over the past couple of days but seems to be a real dearth of detailed info around bee stings in particular.

I understand a lot more about what happens but I'm still largely non the wiser as to why it happens.

[The Drone Ranger]

Well I've read a lot about anaphylaxis over the past couple of days but seems to be a real dearth of detailed info around bee stings in particular.

I understand a lot more about what happens but I'm still largely non the wiser as to why it happens.

Latex is another common one if your using the gloves
Some people have a terrible reaction to the powder in some gloves as well
My sister in law developed a nickel allergy working as a cleaner
might not be all about the sting
I wouldn't trust the hokey quack alergy testers only the NHS
Next visit to the apiary best have a driver standing by for the trip to casualty (but you'll probably be ok.)
If not you get to say "I told you I was allergic" on your tombstone :)

[GRIZZLY]

Managed to get a sting on my upper eyelid yesterday by an errant bee.Hurt like hell and swelled immediately.Stopped hurting after 5 minutes and swelling gone this morning.My own fault for getting a bit too close to the front of the hive to see what was happening.Bees not usualy cranky but there was a touch of thunder in the air so they're forgiven.

[Trog]

Huge thunder cloud went past us yesterday but didn't drop any rain; however it was suffient warning not to go near the bees so we're doing them in a few minutes. Sweltering out there so going to be a hot job!

[Trog]

24C in the shade, considerably hotter in the apiary. Still, the girls weren't bad; some were even nice :)

Oh, this is the sting thread, isn't it? Well, got stung on each knee through 2 layers so a light dose. Hurt as much/little as it normally does. Got cream on each sting immediately and took an antihistamine tablet. Absolutely fine so far which, given last year's reaction, is very good news!

[lindsay s]

I’ve left clearing the supers a bit later than usual this year. Partly because of the good weather in the last two weeks and partly because I’m on holiday. I’m also looking after another two apiaries while their owners are away.
Yesterday I decided to clear the bees from two hives I have at a temporary apiary about ten miles from Kirkwall. When I arrived at the site and realised I had left my wellies at home I decided to carry on anyway (BAD MISTAKE!)
It was only a ten-minute job to swap over the queen excluders with crown boards and bee escapes. All was going well until I got stung just as I was closing up the last hive. A bee had crawled up the inside of my jeans and stung me on the knee and by the time I got back to my car I was starting to have a bad reaction.
I drove to the local shop and bought some antihistamine tablets and took two right away while explaining to the staff that my swollen face wasn’t a normal part of beekeeping. On the drive home I started feeling worse so I headed for the local hospital. On arrival at the hospital I was admitted right away and I was soon told I was in anaphylactic shock as a result of being stung.
My reactions to bee stings have been getting worse over the last few years and the doctor told me there’s a good chance that I’ve now become allergic to them. She also said that by taking the antihistamine right away I prevented my symptoms from becoming much more serious. After one injection and three hours of monitoring I was deemed fit enough to go home. I left hospital with a telling off for not seeking help right away and a prescription for two Epipens.
So much for the old wives tale that beekeepers build up immunity to stings and while it might be true for some of you it’s definitely not for me.
I was back at the bees today wearing maximum protection and with an Epipen in my pocket just in case. The feeding will be over in a few weeks time and the hives will be ready for winter.
I’ve just turned 50 and beekeeping is a hobby I’ve enjoyed for the last 33 years. I would like to carry on next year but when you work with bees there is always the risk of being stung. This is something I will have to consider over the next few months.
P.S. Before anybody suggests I get de-sensitised It’s not an option at the moment.

[Neils]

Sorry to hear it Lindsay. I've been stung a couple of times since with no reaction, but in comparison they were light stings so I'm not taking anything for granted on that front. I don't like using the thicker gloves, but it's better than getting stung and I always the epipen with me wen I go to the bees now.

[Trog]

Last year I was just beginning to work gentler bees with light plastic gloves (disposable surgical-type) with a view to working bare-handed but have, of course, had to go back to leather gloves. It's a pain having to remember to have an epipen and antihistamine tablets ready and I'll no longer work bees alone with nobody else around. If I'm checking the nucs and colonies without supers, I'll make sure my OH knows and keeps an eye out for my non-return at least. If checking the others it takes two of us to lift the supers anyway. I think it's fair to say the bees have not been opened up quite as often this year as they were last year but I've not become timid in handling them, which is something.

[Jon]

These threads make me nervous. Developing a reaction to stings would be my worst nightmare.
Good luck Lindsay. You sure the reaction wasn't made worse by neonicotinoids.:)

[nemphlar]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before. I was advised after being hospitalised that the reaction to stings would only get worse and that I should give up the hobby THat was 15 years ago 2piritin 1aspirin and a sting in early spring for afew years killed my reaction. I'm beginning to think I dreamt this, has no one ever tried or heard of this treatment. Doctors will always advise you to give up.

[Trog]

How often do you get stung after the spring treatment, Nemphlar, and do you react at all? My GP didn't advise me to give up - maybe she understood the 'addiction' to the wee beasties!

[Neils]

I now use these gloves: link (http://www.beebasic.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=24).

There thicker then washing up gloves but the bees haven't managed to sting through them yet though a few have certainly tried. I feel they're a reasonable compromise between having that extra protection while still being able to feel something and without the other downsides to full on leather gloves. I just soak them in washing soda solution between inspections to get the propolis off though I'll probably get some very big nitrile ones to go over them.

[nemphlar]

Trog in thr spring it,s quite difficult to get stung and you really Ned to give them a squeeze, so combine that with the sting in the palm of the hand there is not much of reaction. I did it for a few years and it seemed to reduce the reaction to the point where I hardly see anything even with an angry August sting.
N I just found I was really clumsy with gloves perhaps that should be even more clumsy

[Trog]

Just been stung on the knee. Not a full dose. Have applied Anthisan but not taken an antihistamine tablet this time. Want to see what happens .......

[Neils]

N I just found I was really clumsy with gloves perhaps that should be even more clumsy
I agree, these are just about acceptable in terms of giving protection from stings whilst still allowing you to feel something. I much prefer working with nitrile gloves but I have to take priority for the time being.

[The Drone Ranger]

Here's an entertaining blog telling the tale of allergic reactions
http://www.beekeepingadvice.co.uk/2012/11/i-am-allergic-to-bee-stings/

[Neils]

Had to happen eventually, been about a year since I last got stung, but finally got stung on Sunday, right on the lip. Figured if there was a sting that I was likely to react to this would be it. After sitting around for a few minutes re-reading the epipen instructions having moved outside the allotment gates so the ambulance would be able to find me I eventually got bored and wandered off the other apiary to finish off the stuff I needed to do.

Is it too much to hope that last year was a one off? Despite being a good 'un and swelling up for a bit last night (localised on the lip only) I was pretty much back to normal this morning, only a couple of people commented on my Collagen job whereas last year prior to ending up in hospital I was stung on the face and looked like I'd done 10 rounds with Tyson for a good few days after.

[Jon]

Your reaction last year must have been due to a bad pint in the bar.
That's you properly back on the horse now.

[Neils]

For the first few minutes of it last year that was exactly what I was thinking it probably was: "It's hot, you had a couple of pints last night, that's what it is..."

[Jon]

Like I said - the bad pint is a terrible curse.

[Neils]

I'll take the bad pint over the bad sting reaction if it's all the same :)

[Bridget]

Was told recently that non steroidal painkillers such as Ibobrufen can react against a bee sting in a bad way. It would account why my husband had such a bad reaction this year. Another time i told him to take an Ibobrufen to reduce the swelling😞 so now we know why that didn't work as he takes it daily.

[The Drone Ranger]

Was told recently that non steroidal painkillers such as Ibobrufen can react against a bee sting in a bad way. It would account why my husband had such a bad reaction this year. Another time i told him to take an Ibobrufen to reduce the swelling�� so now we know why that didn't work as he takes it daily.
Antihistamine hay fever pill are the most effective thing
More important scrape the sting out ASAP and try not to leave a bit sting in because they can become infected if you do

[lindsay s]

Had to happen eventually, been about a year since I last got stung, but finally got stung on Sunday, right on the lip. Figured if there was a sting that I was likely to react to this would be it. After sitting around for a few minutes re-reading the epipen instructions having moved outside the allotment gates so the ambulance would be able to find me I eventually got bored and wandered off the other apiary to finish off the stuff I needed to do.

Is it too much to hope that last year was a one off?

I was drooling over a very expensive electric extractor last night and I said to my partner now that my current extractor is over 20 years old wouldn’t it be nice to upgrade to a new one. She promptly replied that if I have another bad reaction to a bee sting I will have to give up my hobby and a new extractor would be a waste. I’ve been stung quite a lot this year but none of them have made it through the extra layers of clothing or my thick gloves. After what I went through last year I’m not brave enough to find out if it was a one off :( (see post 24 in this thread). So in the meantime maximum sting protection is staying and a new extractor remains on hold.

[Bridget]

Lindsay - I agree about the max layers protection. Not got stung through the layers yet but boy was the sweat pouring down, including the welly boot area. Love the hot summer and the news tonight proclaiming more heat waves.

[The Drone Ranger]

Yes but when bee suits cost so much why are you expected to rely on a primark jumper underneath to stop the stings
The other day I thought "that's weird the bees don't normally follow" they weren't they were inside the veil with me
When I was getting the supers off the biaches (hive 10) they were able to sting the top of my head and my ear through the suit
I suppose the manufacturer expects me to buy a trilby as well

[Neils]

I was drooling over a very expensive electric extractor last night and I said to my partner now that my current extractor is over 20 years old wouldn’t it be nice to upgrade to a new one. She promptly replied that if I have another bad reaction to a bee sting I will have to give up my hobby and a new extractor would be a waste. I’ve been stung quite a lot this year but none of them have made it through the extra layers of clothing or my thick gloves. After what I went through last year I’m not brave enough to find out if it was a one off :( (see post 24 in this thread). So in the meantime maximum sting protection is staying and a new extractor remains on hold.

Lindsay, totally agree. While my reaction last year doesn't sound as bad as yours it's not something I'd care to repeat.

I got the blue rubber gloves from bee basic in addition to one of their excellent suits. They're thin and tight enough that you can feel what's going on but despite several attempts stings don't penetrate them. I've never noticed bees trying to sting through the suit but until last week it'd been the best part of a year since my last sting and then only because I got complacent.

[The Drone Ranger]

Today a busy hive pretty placid normally got a bit fed up with me doing the disease inspection
Stung on ankle smoked the site of the sting not that it made any difference stung again in the ankle
Few choice words back to the house took antihistamine put on bee trousers and wellies
Back to the hive finish the brood inspection they are fed up by this time.
On the way back for a cuppa found bee flying around inside the veil
Sure enough stung me inside the right nostril
Now that brought a tear to my eye grrrrr!!
Fortunately the antihistamine was well in the bloodstream by then and I didn't end up with a giant conk
Bleak!!

[gavin]

Ouch! The bees are hungry with all this wet weather and probably need a couple of days of good foraging to get them in a better mood.



More important scrape the sting out ASAP ....

AFAIK the 'scrape' bit of that is a bit of an old wives tale. Just get it out as fast as you can, any way you can, to minimise the amount of venom injected.

[The Drone Ranger]

Ouch! The bees are hungry with all this wet weather and probably need a couple of days of good foraging to get them in a better mood.



AFAIK the 'scrape' bit of that is a bit of an old wives tale. Just get it out as fast as you can, any way you can, to minimise the amount of venom injected.
Yep couldn't get the hive tool up the nostril so nail had to do

I read some borrowed copies of 2013 SBA mags recently
If you need a dose of old wives tales there's the place to go
Articles about how much better WBC hives are for bees etc even although that's all been disproved by empirical means
A chap with 4 hives who has bred varroa resistant pure AMM bees that collect huge amounts of honey in disastrous weather conditions
Misprints and some shocking spelling errors even on the front cover "Occassions" (July)

Thank goodness for Phil Moss, Ian Craig and some others :)

[Neils]

But nary a mention of match sticks under crownboards or leaving two queen cells in an AS:D

[madasafish]

Yep couldn't get the hive tool up the nostril so nail had to do

I read some borrowed copies of 2013 SBA mags recently
If you need a dose of old wives tales there's the place to go
Articles about how much better WBC hives are for bees etc even although that's all been disproved by empirical means
A chap with 4 hives who has bred varroa resistant pure AMM bees that collect huge amounts of honey in disastrous weather conditions
Misprints and some shocking spelling errors even on the front cover "Occassions" (July)

Thank goodness for Phil Moss, Ian Craig and some others :)

The BBKA News for August has a truly appalling article on mixing sugar feed and ratios. What could be condensed into a short paragraph is a page + full of numbers and ratios..Obviously written to fill space.

[fatshark]

Yep couldn't get the hive tool up the nostril so nail had to do


Use of the word "couldn't" suggests you did actually attempt to get the hive tool up you nose.

This thread need pictures :)


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[The Drone Ranger]

Use of the word "couldn't" suggests you did actually attempt to get the hive tool up you nose.

This thread need pictures :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

Trust me when I say I would rather have a hive tool in my nostril than a bee sting :(

[fatshark]

There speaks the voice of experience.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

[The Drone Ranger]

Not had too bad a year for stings in 2015
Had plenty mind but mostly all in the fingers
A couple in the head and one under the eye
(Poking around with no bee protection or tools)

Think I was stung more feeding the little blighters than at any other time

[Neils]

Blimey, forgot about this one. Personally since this time my reaction to stings has gone totally in the opposite direction and I barely seem to get any adverse reactions at all in terms of swelling. I spent a year with the thicker blue rubber gloves, which I actually think are a decent compromise between protection and still being able to feel some of what is going on before, inevitably, getting stung again where much entertainment was to be had rummaging around for the epipen and waiting for something to happen which, thankfully, never did.

[madasafish]

82 stings this year - one on my septum which produced tears. The rest are not memorable at all...Most came from Association Apiary bees which seem to recognise I am gloveless from 20 meters away:-(

[fatshark]

82. Blimey.

1 this year (although I'm not gloveless like madasafish) which was after moving about a dozen colonies in a transit van to Scotland ... one, clearly already homesick, snuck up the back of my jacket but even that was a glancing blow. I didn't use mini-nucs for queen rearing this year, instead splitting full boxes into nucs ... this is a lot less traumatic for everyone concerned (and was a cause of several stings in previous seasons as tradition dictates it must be done on a cool, wet and windy spring day). Finally, the grand total of 1 includes surviving the nuclear-detonation bee-eruption that occurs when you drop a full brood box. Not one of my finer moments. Rearranging a colony for queen rearing and dropped a full box from about chest height.
2472
Docile they weren't.