SBA Facebook page?

[gavin]

I'm currently in a Skype discussion (and getting bored so here I am!) with a few members of the SBA Executive. The possibility of an SBA Facebook page was raised. Anyone have any views?

Would it work?

Would there be enough interest?

What if it became the target of a campaign of some kind of other?

And ... is there anyone out there who fancies taking it on?

Post your replies here, or PM me if you are feeling shy.

cheers

Gavin

[Neils]

It might work, depends what they want to do with it. At worst it's a duplication of effort between here and the SBA website that gets ignored (see the Bbka one that they're shutting down) and gathers dust. At best it's a useful tool to get down with the kids that can complement here and the main SBA web page.

It's not enough just to have the page in my opinion you need to be clear what you want from it and put some effort into making it happen.

I did look into this a while ago so will dig up the info and make sure it's still current if you like.

[EmsE]

Facebook does seem to be the way everyone is going these days to raise their profile.

[Jon]

Bear in mind the single issue trolls who will post on it.

http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11239

[Neils]

I think that is a case in point of why it needs to be taken seriously; rather than what seemed to be the case where they put someone with no authority to do anything or say anything in charge of it and gave them no support afterwards. I think the BBKA live in some slightly alternate reality and they're always completely taken aback when whatever it is they expected to happen actually meets with the real world.

I'm always slightly reminded of:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY

[edit] Before someone says it, no I'm not comparing the BBKA to the SS, just the bemused "we're the bad guys?" look whenever reality clashes with their perceptions of what should happen.

[EmsE]

I like the way that the Glasgow bee keepers face book page is used- not that I've looked at it much as most of my time is spent on here.:o.

There is always a delete button if certain individuals try to use the face book page in a way it's not intended to be. I think it would help fill a gap between this forum and the SBA website for the general public where the forum isn't what they're looking for and the website isn't interactive. It gives them an opportunity to ask the odd question, view other people's queries and the replies would be at a level for them to understand. The forum would probably go over the heads of non bee keepers and won't cover things that they're interested in.

The SBA face book page could also show the LA's affiliated with it (that have face book ) on it too which would assist in guiding people to an association in their local area.

[gavin]

I like the way that the Glasgow bee keepers face book page is used- not that I've looked at it much as most of my time is spent on here.:o.


Poster of the week! (For now) Good points though.

[Neils]

Emse makes some good points, especially around local associations some of whom have already realised that Facebook can provide a cheap and easily maintainable web presence. There are plenty of good, informative websites around beekeeping techniques which means that a local association site need only concern itself with basically saying "here we are" and "here's what we're up to", Facebook is at least very good for doing just that.

For many people Facebook and maybe google are the Internet. Those who've been online for a while might remember when portals were going to be the next big thing, Facebook in my opinion has delivered that concept that you'd log on to one place and " consume" the content that you want without ever leaving the walled garden of the portal.

[drumgerry]

As the creator and admin for Moray Beekeepers facebook page I can say that it's definitely a thing worth doing. It's another way to communicate directly and instantly with people and if you ask me the SBA needs a fair bit more of that. It's a good way to pull in people who are on the margins of beekeeping - non-beekeepers or people who are swithering. Plus it targets a younger demographic and again beekeeping needs to do as much of that as it can imho.

It won't replace the website or the SBAI site but it will be a complement to them. It's just a shame we don't have a share function on the forum as we could be disseminating discussions on here to a wider audience via facebook.

Gerry

[Neils]

I believe the functions are in the current software version.

[drumgerry]

If they are we should be able to use them. Or do we want to keep all of our nefarious plotting discussions away from the wider world?!

[drumgerry]

Oh and another good thing about facebook which probably everyone knows already is the aspect of the Newsfeed which feeds in status updates from things you choose to like. So for example if SBA likes Moray Beekeepers and we like SBA back we can get all of each other's status updates on our newsfeed. A wide ranging, fast changing and eclectic mix of content results!

[Neils]

I will have a look and see what we can do on this particular version of vBulletin and confer with the lord and master :D

[Apiarist]

Thanks to Gavin for starting this thread and discussion. The suggestion came, as Gavin said, from an SBA ICT Committee meeting, although it is a suggestion that has previously been raised by a number of people on different occasions over the past year. The views and opinions that have been expresed here in the Forum are very helpful and interesting in trying to come to a conclusion on this question. However does the fact that only a handful of forum members chose to get involved in the discussion reflect in any way the level of enthusiasm for a Facebook page? Or just the number of people who wanted to comment on it? I don't know the answer to that!

There are plus and mminus points to having a SBA FAcebook page. The risk of takeover by a maverick is perhaps the most negative concern. However if it is something dynamic that would appeal to younger beekeepers then perhaps it is something we should do. In the absence however of anyone able and willing to take on the role of looking after it, nothing will happen.

Are there any more Forum members out there who would like to comment on this before I take these thoughts back to the SBA?

Thanks to all of you who have taken time so far to read and contribute to this one.

[HJBee]

Personally I would not use a Facebook page + the SBAI + the general SBA website. I like the forum and it can be used as easily if not even more efficiently than Facebook via the Tapatalk App on iPhones & Blackberry (possibly on Android too).

However, it may be a good way of encouraging new members and spreading factual information on Bee Keeping and dispels some myths.

[Neils]

Thanks to Gavin for starting this thread and discussion. The suggestion came, as Gavin said, from an SBA ICT Committee meeting, although it is a suggestion that has previously been raised by a number of people on different occasions over the past year. The views and opinions that have been expresed here in the Forum are very helpful and interesting in trying to come to a conclusion on this question. However does the fact that only a handful of forum members chose to get involved in the discussion reflect in any way the level of enthusiasm for a Facebook page? Or just the number of people who wanted to comment on it? I don't know the answer to that!

I think it's a reflection on a number of things, not least the demographic of beekeepers generally (we're old!). A forum and a website still has a number of distinct advantages over Facebook, but Facebook can add another dimension to that presence.

I personally think that there is a place for a Scottish Beekeepers Facebook presence, but with that comes a need for involvement. You can't do what another organisation did and expect it to work, it's an interactive medium. You'll get both positive and negative interactions as a result and whoever the person or peoples are who help run that page are they need some authority to speak on behalf of the association. especially, as you mention, in the event of "trouble makers" coming to pay a visit.

My central point remains that before the SBA leap into setting things up or making radical changes to its web presence "because everyone else is" it should talk to and, as you are doing which is encouraging to see, engage with the existing communities that already exist and discuss internally off the back of that what it is that you want. The guys running the Scottish Beekeeper should also be a part of this in my opinion, it is an important part of how the SBA communicates with its membership and beyond. None of this happens because it's here, there's hard work involved, not just from the administrative team but from the "rank and file" members who make this community what it is.

I'm not a great fan of Facebook, but I equally don't think that it can be ignored and that it can also be a useful (and cheap) means to put the SBA word out there further IF the right support is put behind it and I'd be interested in being involved in it if the commitment is there from the SBA itself.

[Bridget]

As a committed Facebook user I am all in favour but I think despite it I would be back more often to this forum which I think is excellent. However Facebook would be more of a promotional tool and bring more people into the forum. I am a FB friend of both Mull and Moray beekeeper's and do watch what they are up to. However to really make Facebook work you have to have a good supply of info, pics, friends who will post regularly etc. if its not kept up to date people won't join in. This might be a problem in the quieter winter months. You have to work at it.

[HJBee]

'[QUOTE=Nellie;11298]I think it's a reflection on a number of things, not least the demographic of beekeepers generally (we're old!). '

Speak for yourself ;0)

[hypostatic]

Did anything come about in regards to this discussion that took place.

Ive recently started to get involved in beekeeping and think it would be great for a FB page for the association.

As someone who uses FB every day for other activities i would be interested in being involved in getting something going on FB.

So what was the outcome of all the chat?

Dave

[Poly Hive]

My two pence worth.

I will be honest and say I am not a FB fan. I had a page for my business and it achieved nothing so deleted it. I f ind FB very difficult to use and so being a KISS person do not use it. Simples.

Before anyone gets all carried away about the current fad... anyone remember 2nd life? Look what happened there. Paltalk was all the rage for a while to. UK groups on there now, number zero. And so it goes, these things come and go.

A website costs £6 to buy the domain, and I can point you to a person who for £100 will create your site for you. He just did one for my business. And did the beesite one for me too.

By all means go the Facebook route but dinna be at all surprised if it dies on you.

PH

[drumgerry]

Facebook is ridiculously simple to use and can be as active or inactive as you want. Saying that it's a passing fad is slightly luddite PH - sorry mate. If it didn't work for you that's a shame. I can point to a dozen businesses including my own where it's an essential communication tool. Maybe it's a generational thing but then I'm not exactly a teenager at 43.

What I would say and this is more for Alasdair Joyce - if you have a Facebook page for the SBA you'll need a widget/plugin to be able to incorporate it into the SBA website. That way they feed off each other. Not much point otherwise.

[Neils]

My personal concern is that we end up with effectively two SBA online communities, on here and one on Facebook. Double the amount of effort to maintain.

Don't get me wrong, I get the appeal of it and it is simple and easy to set it up (in isolation).

I think that perhaps more integration with Facebook of this forum is not a bad thing but I think that perhaps for a lot of us, Facebook isn't "the Internet". I check in on it maybe once or twice a month but I'm actually very wary of linking the rest of my online presence into Facebook, I like having a degree of separation that Facebook effectively removes.

I have done a bit of head scratching to try and figure out how to make it work and I do still feel that allowing closer integration of this forum with some of the Facebook friendly features is perhaps preferable to diving head first into Facebook itself.

These are just my personal opinions.

[drumgerry]

I think it's safe to say I'm at odds with you Nellie and PH - but that's ok. I'm pretty sure we'll all live through having different opinions!

So here's an example where Facebook would be handy for the SBA. They want to announce something to their members. They don't necessarily have to wait till the magazine comes out to do it. And for some reason the news feature on the SBA website is hugely underused. Two minutes on a status update on Facebook and job's a good un. I wouldn't have to ask on here what exams are being offered in March if they did that from time to time. And I don't necessarily see a Facebook page as being hand in glove with SBAi and hence maybe competing with it. It would be a good complement to the main SBA site. Bloody hell I'd set it up and maintain it myself if someone asked me! If Alasdair could stick a Facebook like box on the SBA website then the Facebook page and the website would be tied together and mutually beneficial.

Again just my 43 year old opinion.

[Neils]

Don't disagree with you to a point. I have no involvement with the SBA web presence outside of this forum but I agree with you about the news page and I don't see Facebook changing that to any meaningful degree. Whether the website, this forum or Facebook it's not a zero effort package.

I think that allowing Facebook sign in to here and 'like' buttons are fine but just assuming that having a Facebook page makes all the perceived weaknesses of what we currently have go away rather than just adding another layer of maintenance is, I feel, a little optimistic.

I also don't see Facebook as being a good medium, or a better one, for dissemination of some of the information that you mention compared to a standard web presence. It can be complimentary to that but it is, at the end of the day, a chat page. The groups facility is ok but it lacks the flexibility and functionality that a standard web site can provide.

I'm not trying to disagree for the sake of it and you raise some very valid points but I think regarding Facebook as an easy panacea is simplistic.

[Neils]

Before anyone gets all carried away about the current fad... anyone remember 2nd life?

I couldn't let this bit go :). Much as I'd quite like to, I think dismissing Facebook as a fad 8 years down the line is a little optimistic. Comparisons to second life, which was triumph of marketing to technical journalists and a game, but at its peak never had more than about 100,00 users is comparing apples to oranges. Might Facebook go the same way as MySpace? I don't see why not, but currently it's many people's main interaction with "the Internet", as an example a year or so ago a website with an article about Facebook ended up being the number one google result for "Facebook" their comments section for the article was deluged with complaints from people who just wanted to login and chat to their friends.

But I digress. For an organisation it's a valid tool to get out there but it needs effort to make it work, the BBKA is a classic example of how not to manage a Facebook page.

[Bumble]

A lot of organisations have facebook pages, some use it as a place for conversation because they don't have any other online presence.

Emails don't always arrive, so I find it useful to check dates of meetings and so on, for a couple of organisations I belong to. I don't see why SBA couldn't use FB for announcements, I'm not sure if there's a need for anything else because this forum is more than adequate. But it would need somebody to maintain it, which could be asking quite a lot. The bonus is that it's free, and if it doesn't work out it's easy enough to delete an account.

This is what Facebook was like last year. Mostly US-based stats, unfortunately, but there were more than 200,000,000 UK users http://www.kenburbary.com/2011/03/facebook-demographics-revisited-2011-statistics-2/ They can't all be wrong :)

[Neils]

Bumble, I've been pretty scathing of other organisations', within beekeeping and without, web presence so please don't think I'm trying give the SBA a free pass just because I'm involved with the forum.

I earn a living in IT consultancy, not directly related to this area, but the patterns are similar: this isn't working quite right, so lets pile a huge amount of effort adding something new which will fix everything rather than address the underlying problems.

I agree that we're missing something by not having any integration or presence on Facebook but, right now, what is already in place, both paper and web based is not working as well as it should. So do we add another layer, quick fix if you will, or try to resolve the underlying issues first?

[drumgerry]

Don't disagree with you to a point. I have no involvement with the SBA web presence outside of this forum but I agree with you about the news page and I don't see Facebook changing that to any meaningful degree. Whether the website, this forum or Facebook it's not a zero effort package.

I think that allowing Facebook sign in to here and 'like' buttons are fine but just assuming that having a Facebook page makes all the perceived weaknesses of what we currently have go away rather than just adding another layer of maintenance is, I feel, a little optimistic.

I also don't see Facebook as being a good medium, or a better one, for dissemination of some of the information that you mention compared to a standard web presence. It can be complimentary to that but it is, at the end of the day, a chat page. The groups facility is ok but it lacks the flexibility and functionality that a standard web site can provide.

I'm not trying to disagree for the sake of it and you raise some very valid points but I think regarding Facebook as an easy panacea is simplistic.

Again Nellie not disagreeing just for the sake of it but I think you may have misinterpreted what I'm saying here. I don't see Facebook as a panacea. I think what I said was it would complement what the SBA does at the moment. I don't see it as a better medium for things just another one. Not sure why there's such opposition to it to be honest. Why on earth wouldn't the SBA want to make announcements using Facebook? If it allowed them to reach a few hundred or a thousand more people? With someone running it who was fed the information and actually carried out the status updates it would work fine.

[Mellifera Crofter]

... right now, what is already in place, both paper and web based is not working as well as it should. So do we add another layer, quick fix if you will, or try to resolve the underlying issues first?
I agree. A properly-run website should be updated immediately and contain all the relevant information - that means there should be no need for Facebook apart from the conversation issue, and that happens here on this forum. The SBA is still unable to run a website properly - so will they do any better trying to run a Facebook page as well?
Kitta

[drumgerry]

I'm not sure I'd be as harsh in my judgement of the SBA website as you Kitta. I think Alasdair does a good job. Plus we need to remind ourselves that everyone doing these jobs is an unpaid volunteer. With the Facebook thing all you need is one person being fed the relevant information -whether text, news, photos or whatever - and them spending a few minutes uploading it. It's not hard. I'm not sure how the SBA website software works but perhaps it's more involved changing the pages. If they'd have asked me (like they would have!) I'd have advised they build the SBA website using something like the paid version of Wordpress which is generally speaking reasonably intuitive and pretty easy to make updates through.

[Mellifera Crofter]

...If they'd have asked me (like they would have!) I'd have advised they build the SBA website using something like the paid version of Wordpress which is generally speaking reasonably intuitive and pretty easy to make updates through.
That's precisely what I did advise them to do, and I have created a really good functioning website for them. It fell apart - and it was not my fault.
Kitta

[drumgerry]

I'm not sure I understand Kitta. Are you saying you created a website for the SBA using Wordpress, it didn't work and they chose to put in place the website they have currently? Not sure why a Wordpress site would fall apart tbh. My experience of it is that it's reliable, functional and well supported.

[Poly Hive]

Luddite? Hmm well been on line since 1996. Quoted 2nd life as it is the nearest hpyed site to fb in recent times. Oh and for portals AOL was the first, and arguably worst. Anyway moving one. FB might be at the moment the greatest thing since sliced bread but... give it time. It's woes are merely beginning now that it has to face real financial scrutiny. As for being easy to use, I found it impenetrable and I mean that, as I could never get by the first page. Ok so I am thick and 58. *shrug* Yet I am building a pretty decent web site. Oddly enough using Wordpress. LOL

Whilst it is in some ways great to share with the world, sometimes for a small community it's better to keep things more in-house.

PH

[Mellifera Crofter]

I'm not sure I understand Kitta. Are you saying you created a website for the SBA using Wordpress, it didn't work and they chose to put in place the website they have currently? Not sure why a Wordpress site would fall apart tbh. My experience of it is that it's reliable, functional and well supported.

Sorry Drumgerry - I wasn't clear. No, the website was fine. I tried to help, and it did not work out - it's a people thing.
Kitta

[gavin]

I think that the two of you may share an interest!

I did briefly switch on Facebook linking for SBAi but was persuaded to switch it off again. I think that it will be back on later in the weekend, but I have a busy couple of days ahead.

We did briefly discuss behind the scenes the possibility of an SBA Facebook page but didn't really see the need for it. OK, some people might use it more than the forum, but it may split the effort going into SBAi. Great idea for local associations that want an easy way into social media.

[drumgerry]

Fair enough Gavin.

Thanks for clearing that up Kitta

We're aaaaall doooomed eh PH?! ;)

[Poly Hive]

Not doomed at all but it's just not sensible to lean overly in one direction, that in my experience leads to a capsize. ;)

[gavin]

We should now have Facebook integration running. You can 'Like' a thread, blog or article, post things from here on Facebook (I understand!), and become a user from your Facebook account if you wish (so I understand!). Do have a play ... and let me know if there are things that need tweaked.

OK, things need tweaked, I admit it!

I'm thinking now that to make much of this you need to buy the App which doesn't get a particularly good press from its users, so we may be stuck with what we have. Currently the 'Like' works at least. Maybe if I update the forum software to the latest version that will stop working as they try to extract as much cash as they can from vBulletin users ...

[Neils]

The connect button doesn't seem to do anything. Not sure if that's because I'm on a phone or I need to enter my Facebook details onto the forum login bits. If its the latter do we have the option to move the layout to make it more obvious?

[marion.orca]

I hit the like button and also the connect button and now on my FB homepage it is showing up a SBA Facebook page ? - which is the title of this thread. It also gives the SBA web address under the main title. I already had the FB page open and running, then opened this thread at the same time on a different page.

[gavin]

I seem to have the 'Like' button on here, and in FB there is a mention of vBulletin down the side which takes me to vBulletin discussions, not SBA ones. The 'Connect' button does nothing for me.

There is a Facebook integration package which you can buy (was $99, may be more now). Don't plan getting that - I'm just using the Facebook options buried in vB 4.

Weird.

[Poly Hive]

Ah the joys of a fad eh?

PH

[gavin]

Nothing wrong with a fad or two, PH. You can even 'Like' them if you wish! :eek:

I suspect that we're continuing with Facebook integration lite. The vBulletin software upgrade this morning hasn't done much for it - but that Like function does mean that SBAi will get some FB exposure.

[Poly Hive]

I can't "like" for two good reasons.

One I don't like the idea at all.

Two, I no longer have a waste of space FB account.

I found it the most infuriating program I think I have ever had the misfortune to come across. I miss it not a jot. Not to mention the stream of junk mail it generated. Good luck to you with it, but it's definitely not for me.

PH