Winter Losses outside the UK

[Stromnessbees]

...Gavin, I'm opening a new thread here as I need to refer to some of the posts in Winter Losses



The question I replied to was whether German beekeepers had big losses over the winter.

The answer, taken directly from the beekeepers' mouth, is that there are some massive losses, with beginners as well as with very experienced people.

They treat for varroa, they know how to feed bees for the winter, but they can't keep them alive anymore.

Many are at their wits end and consider giving up.

A friend of mine in Austria lost all his 10 colonies, it happened in late autumn, I inspected the beehouse with him at Christmas. :(


I just downloaded all my pictures from my mobile and there's one half decent one that I took of the bees that died in my friend's beehouse.

I also have pictues of the beehouse, but on my old computer, will dig them up sometime.


985
I took this picture on the 5th of January.

The dead queen is at the top of the little cluster, she's got a white plastic marker with a number on it as it was a purebred native queen.

The bees were obviously close to their stores, but there were hardly any bees left, this was the sad remnant of a thriving colony.

They had died around October, but the beekeeper had not cleared them out as he wanted to investigate the reason.

It looks more or less like CCD, not many dead bees were in or outside the hive, and plenty of stores left.

[Jon]

Hi Doris. I have seen a similar result with both nosema and varroa - ie a small cluster with a queen beside stores.
I saw one exactly like this in our association apiary about a month ago.
I once had a double brood box colony dwindle to a couple of frames of bees over a period of three weeks.
It had got to the point of starvation in August and I think the stress triggered the nosema.
The longevity of the bees is compromised and the colony dwindles to a point where the first cold spell just finishes it off.
If a colony has a bad nosema infection, Oxalic acid treatment will hasten its demise.
Nosema Ceranae does not show the characteristic streaking which you see with Nosema apis.
Did your friend send a sample to the lab?

[Trog]

I would test the corpses for acarine. I've a colony that's made it through the winter but is now just a handful of bees; not many crawlers outside the hive as they dwindled, and no corpses inside, suggesting that they died in the field. I went to clear it up last week and discovered they're hanging on, with fresh stores, a small patch of brood and fanning like mad for their queen. They're now in a nuc box and I'll see if they make it. I sent of samples of dead bees from the crown board (so not from another hive) and it was negative for nosema, positive for acarine. As we all know, there's no varroa here, and none found on the dead bees at the lab. No pesticides to blame either as no agribusiness. If I didn't know better, I'd assume that the tiny patch of survivors was CCD.

[Calum]

According to the German Bieneninstituts (bee institute) Mayen (http://www.bienenjournal.de/?redid=374256) the winter losses were not at all dramatic (https://bienenkunde.uni-hohenheim.de/news/imker-infobrief-januar-2012).
Only 4500 beekeepers have responded so far, but they will be starting to collate data soon.

[Jon]

Well I am hoping beyond hope that this thread is not just another pretext of a thread based on the premise that if some colonies have died somewhere in the world, Germany for example, then it must be Neonicotinoid pesticides to blame. Interested to hear that Calum, as up to now it has been presented as a very bad winter in Germany.

Doris, what was your friend's routine for varroa and nosema treatments with timings if you know them. If you leave varroa treatment too late, ie October rather than August, you will have big problems.

[Trog]

I missed the comment about the purebred native queen. I have a not-at-all-scientific feeling that AMM are a bit susceptible to acarine ...

[Calum]

If it was AMM the local carnica would probably have had a good go at robbing them - it was fierce for robbing last autumn.
Jon the winter was fine, nice and cold, just too short.
Autumn went on for too long, most people did their formic teratments in August, bees were still flying and in brood into October multiplying and speading varroa. I wont repost my mite fall photos from the oxalic acid treatment again, the cold weather didn't breed those varmints. + there was a great wood honey crop with a fair amount of melizitrose well into Sept - that crystalised in frames (the bees cannot eat that in the winter). Saw some colonies that starved of frames full of chrystalised food. But that was in my wee corner next to the austrian border. Voralberg next to us have some issues with foulbrood. So all in all not unlike any other year, just like every other year different challanges for the bees. The report from Mayen will be interesting.

As ever the biggest challange the bees have after varroa is probably their beekeeper

[Calum]

Talked to the Fachberater (agriculture ministrys beekeeping advisor) for Bayern yesterday evening. His opinion was the losses last winter were much lower overall, although some heavy losses were experienced by some beekeepers these did not show any kind of grouping (not localized) so far.

[chris]

Calum, just to plug a gap in my enormous ignorance, is there a lot of foraging from trees, and particularly firs in the region?

[Calum]

Yes in my area the is plenty of mixed woods (as is common throughout S.Germany), so in the right conditions they collect alot of aphid excretions /'woodland honey'.
The most expensive honey in Germany is 'wood' honey (Exluding imported stuff like Manuka).

[Bridget]

Calum- re wood honey. I live in an area maybe not so different to yours. Pine, birch and mixed forest with very little crops, some sheep and dairy in the highlands. I'm a newbie here but do you think my bees are foraging in a similar way. There is not much around at this time of year apart from a bit of gorse and cherry blossom so are my bees gathering pollen or nectar from the trees do you think. Later of course we have heather but not till August.

[Calum]

Hi
they don't get pollen from those trees. Wood honey is a bit special (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeydew_(secretion)). If you see ants climbing the trees there is a good chance the bees will be visiting too...

[Calum]

Winterverluste waren überdurchschnittlich Mayen (co) Das vergangene, sehr früh beginnende Bienenjahr 2011,gekennzeichnet durch teilweise sehr gute Erträge, ließ für den Winter 2011/2012 das Schlimmste erwarten.
Die erfassten Völkerverluste im Spätsommer und Herbst taten ihr Übriges für die düsteren Prognosen für den Winter. Verluste
von 25 bis 30 % wurden vorhergesagt und an den Winter 2002/2003, mit seinen bisher höchsten Verlusten seit es bundesweite
Erhebungen gibt, erinnert.
Diese Befürchtungen traten Gott sein Dank nicht ein. Die vorläufigen Erhebungswerte des Fachzentrums für Bienen und Imkerei in Mayen, auf der Basis von mehr als 5.200 Imkereien mit zusammen mehr als 70.000 Bienenvölkern
beziffern die Verluste mit 22 %, immerhin mehr als jedes fünfte Bienenvolk in Deutschland.
Nach ersten Berechnungen waren 60% aller beteiligten Imkereien von Verlusten in unterschiedlichem Umfang betroffen.
Nach abschließender Erfassung von weiteren ca. 1.000 Fragebögen erfolgen weitere Analysen zu verschiedenen Einflussfaktoren

in short they expected 25-30% losses. Average 22% Losses recorded as a whole, avarage loss per beekeeper 21,5. The causes are being looked into. 5200 beekeepers tending over 70000 colonies took part in the survey.
Looking at the data appended to the report Bremen Hanburg and Sachsen-Anhalt have what appear to be higher losses with over 30% but I'll leave the numbercrunching to professionals

[Neils]

For those wondering where the Neonicotinoid/CCD conversation went, I've moved it into a new thread that can be found Here (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?866-Neonicotinoids-and-CCD).

I think it had wandered far enough off the original topic of this particular thread to warrant splitting out to preserve this one to discuss as originally intended.

[Stromnessbees]

For those wondering where the Neonicotinoid/CCD conversation went, I've moved it into a new thread that can be found Here (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?866-Neonicotinoids-and-CCD).

I think it had wandered far enough off the original topic of this particular thread to warrant splitting out to preserve this one to discuss as originally intended.


Nellie, this is just plain ridiculous. Anybody can see that you are just trying to hide something.

To the genuine forum reader I can only recommend to follow that link and to make up his/her own mind as to what is going on here.

I have said what I wanted to say, but it was too close to the truth, and the truth we are not allowed to find out on this forum.

[Jon]

Doris you were complaining earlier about lack of moderation and forum management. Most of the thread he moved was the usual daft jokes and banter. Check it out.

[gavin]

It is good management of the forum. Thanks Nellie. Those who wish to continue with the pesticide stuff can click Nellie's link and go to the area lower down on the forum where polite debate on this topic will be tolerated. Maybe slightly impolite debate too.

Those to wish to ignore these arguments can do so more easily, and hopefully people turned off by the bickering will enjoy their stay on the forum a little more.

[Neils]

Nellie, this is just plain ridiculous. Anybody can see that you are just trying to hide something.

To the genuine forum reader I can only recommend to follow that link and to make up his/her own mind as to what is going on here.

I have said what I wanted to say, but it was too close to the truth, and the truth we are not allowed to find out on this forum.

Hiding in plain sight, there's a link, right there in that text you quoted that takes you to the new thread, split out as is, dedicated to the conversation rather than "hidden" in a topic covering colony losses. The only change in that thread is in your original post where I added an explanation and a link back to.... here.


can we talk about bees now?

[Calum]

Nellie, this is just plain ridiculous. Anybody can see that you are just trying to hide something.

To the genuine forum reader I can only recommend to follow that link and to make up his/her own mind as to what is going on here.

I have said what I wanted to say, but it was too close to the truth, and the truth we are not allowed to find out on this forum.

Doris please read this (http://cdn.twentytwowords.com/wp-content/uploads/Flowchart-to-determine-if-youre-having-a-rational-discussion-e1300206446831-634x882.jpg)

Let me make this easier (and thanks Calum). G.

http://cdn.twentytwowords.com/wp-content/uploads/Flowchart-to-determine-if-youre-having-a-rational-discussion-e1300206446831-634x882.jpgb

[Rosie]

This is the clincher for poster of the week! And it does not even include a joke.

Rosie

[Stromnessbees]

I hope you are done with my character assassination now.

Anyway, Nellie was a bit over zealous when he moved those posts to another thread down in the bottom where he hopes nobody will find them.
This one certainly belongs here, as this is the logical continuation of the thread I started:



Thank you for all your replies.

But I have to tell you: it wasn't acarine, it wasn't varroa. It wasn't bad beekeeping or wood honey either.
- It was CCD, colony collapse disorder, caused by neonic contaminated pollen from seed treated maize.

A look at the maps showed that the affected apiaries were within flying ranges of seed treated crops, those in areas of organic agriculture or even areas with traditional spraying were fine.

Austrian beekeepers are furious and will push for a ban by next year:

(watch from 9:15)
http://tvthek.orf.at/programs/1310-Report


And just in case anybody here thinks their bees are safe as maize is not a common crop here: the neonicotinoids from oilseed rape can affect your bees too and lead to higher numbers of varroa, outbreaks of nosema and early failure of queens due to the delayed toxic effects of these very persistent systemic pesticides.

[Neils]

If I didn't want people to find them I would have just deleted them. The thread was given a clear, appropriate, title, put in the relevant section with links from here to there so give it a rest and put your tin foil hat on.