Colony Advice

[Hoomin_erra]

Hi All

Looking for a bit of advice.

I have the possibility of getting 4 colonies as the owner no longer really wants them. He has asked me to make him an offer. but.......

1 colony is so infested with varoa it's ridiculous. I have never seen varroa before, but as soon as i opened the hive i could see them. Each bee had multiple mites. It's currently a very small colony hardly covering 2 frames. The other 3 seem ok.

All 4 have signs of chalkbrood.

All 4 colonies are in home made "WBC" hives. The outer shell is creosoted pine. The inners are home made brood and supers. The sizes of the supers and broods don't match, so there are gaps between each box. some up to an inch. The crowns are the same. The comb in the broods is black , and most frames have holes.

Question is, seeing as i will probably have to rehome all 4, what is a decent price?

[chris]

If it were me, I'd drop the idea. Better to get one colony in good health and in a new hive than to chase something downhill. My experience is that wanting something and not waiting for the right thing leads to crossing one borderline at a time until you convince yourself that it's what you want.

[gavin]

The two-frame Varroa-ridden one is worthless. You'd be lucky if you can save it.

An average price for local bees is about £25/frame, but that applies to a healthy stock on new or nearly new frames with a proven but youngish queen. Given that these bees need to be moved to new frames, have old queens, and sound like they will have a high load of Varroa needing effective treatment I think that half that price would be reasonable.

The woodware isn't worth anything.

[Jon]

I just typed a paragraph which I accidentally deleted but it was almost the same as Gavin's above.
I think the bees have very little value as you could easily lose the lot due to virus load.
You would need a quarantine site as well.
I don't think I would offer even £12 per frame.
The problem is he probably thinks he has something worth £800 or more and the boxes are totally worthless, maybe even harbouring disease spores.
Offering to take them off his hands and giving him something later if you can save them would be as far as I would go.

[gavin]

Offering to take them off his hands and giving him something later if you can save them would be as far as I would go.

That's certainly an option. If you do the Varroa-treating and moving onto new frames and boxes (is a Bailey comb change possible with these boxes?) on his site he'll see the work you need to do and will appreciate that they weren't worth as much as well-managed bees.

If the 3 colonies are fairly strong it may be worth considering (in a few weeks when they are stronger) a shook swarm plus Varroa treatment (oxalic?) before the new brood is sealed.

[Hoomin_erra]

Offering to take them off his hands and giving him something later if you can save them would be as far as I would go.

He doesn’t want anything. He has a shed full of homemade hives that he says he might keep just in case he wants bees again in the distant future.


That's certainly an option. If you do the Varroa-treating and moving onto new frames and boxes (is a Bailey comb change possible with these boxes?) on his site he'll see the work you need to do and will appreciate that they weren't worth as much as well-managed bees.

Bailey Change should be possible, that was my initial thought. Might have to jury rig the boxes together, as I have smith and these are like I said, DIY WBC’s

Can’t really do it on his site, as part of the reason he wants rid, is that he no longer has access to the site for bees. Farmer has rented it to someone else as a storage yard.

Would £100 for all 4 colonies be fair considering all the work that will need to go into them?

[Jon]

Probably fair enough as you might end up with nothing. I would be very careful re AFB EFB risk.

[gavin]

I'd check them now for brood disease rather than after you take ownership, assuming that you can lift the frames. Tomorrow should be sunny, through the week a bit warmer, but cold and wet again by next weekend. Jon is right, and it is AFB in particular I'd be concerned about though EFB is possible too. Look for unhealthy or picked-open cappings, open up cells you are suspicious about. The chances aren't high that he has foulbrood but is is sometimes these older beekeepers who pick up the disease and don't recognise the symptoms. Just for safety.

It is hard to be sure what they are worth from here. If they are strong and healthy without a serious Varroa problem (open some drone brood if you can't tell otherwise) then you'd be getting a bargain at £100 as full colonies sell at £250 or more. This is assuming that you want three more colonies of course. If they are strong then three will soon become six or more - you could always sell some on and share that income with the owner? If they have foulbrood - oops, worthless and also illegal to move them. If they have a Varroa problem then you take a risk with them as controlling Varroa takes effort and resources, and isn't always successful.

I've never done a shook swarm (have watched though). The advantage over a Bailey comb change would be that a Bailey does nothing for Varroa. With a shook swarm you can treat them while they have only unsealed brood.

[Hoomin_erra]

Know of any inspectors in the Huntly area who i could get to check them over before i make a decision?

[gavin]

This will reach Steve S who will see if they can spare someone.

BeesMailbox@scotland.gsi.gov.uk

[Hoomin_erra]

Thanks Gavin

I'll get in contact with them.