Beekeeping myths

[Jon]

There is a lot of stuff engrained in beekeeping which is not actually true or at best is only true under certain circumstances.
I see this stuff repeated all the time on the bee forums and hear it regularly at BKA meetings.
In my own experience all of the stuff below is false.

-A colony bringing in pollen is always queenright

-Bees will not store fondant in spring, so feeding fondant can do no harm as they will only take it if they need it.

-When a virgin queen mates she stores the sperm from each drone in a discrete 'package' in her spermatheca which means that the colour or the temper of the bees in the colony can change as she creates workers from the sperm of a different drone.

-A virgin queen has to fly to a drone congregation area to mate.

-Black bees/AMM are bad tempered

-When a supersedure takes place the old queen will be disposed of only after the new queen has started to lay

-feral bees will not make a nest with more than 8 parallel combs.

-aggressive bees produce more honey

-the bees know best!

Something there is bound to start an argument!

[GRIZZLY]

You forgot about bees not reading the right books !!!

[Neils]

The bees don't read the books
There is just a lot of crap in the books. (oops sorry Grizz)

A Colony of Drone Laying workers can't be re-queened, tip them on the floor 50 feet away etc etc.

[Jon]

Nice one Nellie. I forgot about that one and it is one of the most common - the tip them out advice. That is repeated all the time and is often accompanied with the sage proclamation that laying workers, or even the laying worker singular cannot fly back.
The technical term used by Roger Patterson for dubious book content is twaddle.
It is hard to queen a laying worker colony but not impossible. It's rarely worth the bother unless you have time on your hands.

Grizzly. Every time I see the 'bees don't read the books' quote I am tempted to post equally useful advice!
Bees don't play snooker. Bees don't ride unicycles. Bees don't eat moths.

[Neils]

I'm reliably informed, though haven't tested it myself, that a Virgin Queen is the secret to solving laying workers.

[Jon]

The kill them sometimes though.
Michael Bush's advice of putting in a frame of open brood once a week for 3 weeks before introducing a queen cell or a virgin is probably the best plan but it is generally a waste of time.
If you have loads of spare virgin queens you could just keep running them in I suppose and one of them might get lucky.

[Neils]

The brood should stop more workers from coming into lay so I can see the logic behind introducing brood frames over a period of time.

The reasoning behind introducing a virgin queen is that until she starts laying she has no identity [as a queen] at the point she's introduced so isn't rejected in the same way as putting a mated queen in would be.

[Jon]

Some colonies are just not worth it.
I had one which went queenless so I gave it a queen cell on the point of hatching.
A virgin emerged and they let it run around for a few days and then it disappeared.
I gave it a laying queen from an apidea and they let it lay about 5 eggs then it disappeared and they made a queen cell from one of the eggs which hatched and then the virgin again disappeared a few days later. By this point it was mid October and I combined it with a small queenright colony beside it and this was the only colony I lost over the winter.

This is what I should have done with it rather than attempting to requeen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8YFxuKrJBI

[Adam]

Michael Bush's advice of putting in a frame of open brood once a week for 3 weeks before introducing a queen cell or a virgin is probably the best plan but it is generally a waste of time.


By the time you've put in 3 frames of brood over 3 weeks, you might just as well have made a nuc with 3 frames of brood and a queen; after 3 weeks you would have 4 frames of brood as they would have laid up a frame themselves anyway and by then you've got a viable colony, so as you say Jon, a waste of time. Shake out the laying worker colony so the bees stengthen another hive and then make a new colony.

[Neils]

It takes n pounds of honey/syrup to make x pounds of wax.

While I have no issue with the statement that 'you don't get something for nothing' I've not seen anything but pub legend/forum assertion around what resources are required to make wax.

In the grand scheme of things it's irrelevant. After a shook swarm or hiving a swarm into foundation, sure, give the bees a feed. Little and often is my, hobbyist, view. I see lots of people giving bees gallons of syrup, needed or not on the above basis when it's not really necessary.

[Jon]

Nellie, there is clearly enough material to write a book about all these things which bees do not actually do and there is probably room for a chapter on synchronized swimming.
I think I have seen all bar one of the myths in this thread aired in the last couple of days on the other bee forums. Pollen = queenright is repeated ad nauseum.
Re aggressive bees being more productive, there was one amazing thread where a guy described getting covered in bees after opening a hive to the point of not being able to see, and he went on to describe how his gloves and beesuit got completely coated in stings. He then asked rhetorically, is this not the sort of genetics we want!!! (they filled a couple of supers last summer)
Errr no, don't think so, not in my apiary. I'd rather keep a pit full of crocodiles in the back garden.

[Neils]

I know someone who can sort you out with a croc or two!

[Neils]

Only other thing that springs to mind is be careful of this ivory tower we seem to be inhabiting at the moment, not just in this thread, regarding other avenues of discussion.

[Jimbo]

Just spent an interesting day at our local association stand at the Green Fair organised by Transformation Scotland. As well as the usual questions from the general public about the bees dying out and all the usual theory's including the usual one like electricity pylons, mobile phones etc the one that had me stumped was the reason for the bees dying out due to all the nuclear power stations. Anybody got an answer to that theory?

[Neils]

They're attracted to all the pollentonium?

[gavin]

Ooo ... good try Nellie. I was going to suggest - early this morning - that the nuclear power industry is to blame because their existence has promoted green thinking, which then embraced the bee holocaust idea, and has lead to so many new beekeepers taking up the craft who are reluctant to properly treat Varroa ... hence all those winter losses.

But I thought better of it and went back to bed for a while. I'm a bit of a nuclear-sceptical greenie myself.

Cracking day in the tropical east of Scotland. The bees are at August strength and we had the weather to match too. Brown pollen was in the majority today - Prunus?

[Jon]

Well if you can't pin bee death Armageddon on Bayer and Monsanto, the next best bet is the nuclear industry. I am anti nuclear myself, although I see that George Monbiot in his Guardian column has been trying hard to promote it as a least worst option. Not convinced though.

[gavin]

George had a pop at an acquaintance of mine, so he's off my Christmas card list. Mind you, if she'd asked me I'd have suggested avoiding collaborations with industry over bee health. It was bound to be misconstrued. I'll straddle the nuclear fence. Priority one has to be reducing carbon output by any means, but sustainable means have to be the best and the nuclear industry has to be the epitome of unsustainability.

[Neils]

I'm undecided on Nuclear but I tend towards thinking that it's probably the least worst solution for our power requirements at the moment. Perhaps if you live in an area where you might get hit by both a force 9 earthquake and 20 foot tsunami it might be a slightly less desirable solution. As we all know powerlines kill bees in their droves /sarcasm, that's about the worst thing I can think of in terms of affecting bees.

There is a certain irony in the number of people desparate to "save the bees" who refuse to treat them for Varroa and end up killing them in their droves as a result. I'm pretty sure that neither Varroa nor bees care one jot about the motives of Bayer or Monsanto.

[Jon]

A Tsunami traveling up the Severn would probably get to be a 100 foot wave.

[Neils]

Thanks Jon for reminding me...

Absolutely anything said about bait hives
I've had swarms take residence in a Nuc (too small), in between two bustling 14x12s (they wont settle in an existing apiary), that had no frames in it (they like old dark comb) and was on the ground (they like to go 15ft+ up).

Ley lines too for completeness.

If there are bees around you in addition to your own and you stick a couple of bait hives out you might get lucky.

I do believe that swarms tend to settle in the same places because I've heard about it from too many people, including non beekeepers who get swarms turn up in the same tree (branch) year in, year out. so sticking a bait hive around there wont hurt.

Everything else may or may not make the slightest bit of difference based on what I've seen so far.

[Jon]

Good stuff. There is certainly an entire chapter which could be based around the bait hive myths. Bees definitely do settle on the same place time after time but that is easily explained by the pheromone trace left by an alighting queen. I had about 10 queens land on the same post last summer - not swarms, rather queens on mating flights.
I had to collect them by placing the empty apidea beside the cluster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4mNKvN4v1U&list=UUue8V6a4fIYZX7rf9Pn1qLw&index=23&feature=plcp

[Trog]

Did I ever mention the year (a couple of summers ago) I saw a swarm fly straight past the lovely bait hive at the 'corrrect' height and orientation, complete with clean foundation and a phermone capsule ... into a pile of supers and old boxes that I'd not finished sorting/cleaning? Took me another year to get them off the super frames they'd colonised and to move them away from the paddock but I still have that colony. AMM and not always sweet-natured but that probably depends on the whereabouts of the moon pluto and venus at the time (since this is a beekeeping myths thread) and woe betide us if mars is anywhere to be seen! [ironic smiley]

[Neils]

Not necessarily within a close time period (the venerable Mr Hoskins uses one post to cull all his queens and the majority of swarms settle there apparently), but year after year. I was talking to someone a few years ago who reckons that every year they get at least one swarm settle in the tree in their garden

[gavin]

Speaking of which, did you ever hear the myth that when Jupiter and Venus align, the brilliant beekeeping spring will carry on into the most productive beekeeping year in living memory?

It is about time I invented my own myth.

[Jon]

Hi Trog. I have heard of that happening a couple of times. My brother had a few old supers in a shed and he got a swarm take up residence in them through a broken window.

re. that video clip I posted in post 22, if you scroll to about 2:20 there is a great shot of a dopey drone on the front of the apidea being picked off by a wasp. Look at the number of drones in that little cluster on the post. None of them came from the apidea and they must all have been sucked into the mating swarm - something which is also considered to be a myth in some quarters but I have it on video!

[Trog]

Well, Gavin, if it's predictions you're after, I predict the midges will start biting much earlier this year. :eek:

[Adam]

Ref Mr Hoskins, I have a few queens that I have been collecting in the freezer. I'll be squeezing them onto something quite soon with the hope of catching a swarm. Maybe a removeable 'false' branch so I can eaily shake bees off it. I'll let you know if I get anything. I clip my queens but pound to a penny I'll leave two queen cells in somewhere and get a caste.

[Trog]

Hmm, that's an interesting idea, Adam. I'll maybe try that trick!

[Neils]

Foul Brood can (always) be identified by the smell
Another one that sprang to mind while reviewing some of the module 3 stuff and that seems to do the rounds from time to time.

If it's present, the odour of basically rotting brood is difficult to miss but I wouldn't personally include it in the list of warning signs that a colony might have Foul Brood. i.e. if I was concerned I wouldn't be thinking "Something's not right but at least it doesn't smell so it can't be foulbrood"

[gavin]

A hillwalking friend says that the midges are out already. If only they caught foulbrood, smelly or otherwise.

[Bumble]

A hillwalking friend says that the midges are out already. If only they caught foulbrood, smelly or otherwise.

They've been 'out' here on sunny days all through the winter. It doesn't look good for an itch-free summer.

About myths. We have seen it said that Weeping Willow doesn't offer anything to bees because it's wind pollinated. This year, nursing two hives in our garden, the tree has been buzzing so loud that it sounds almost as if a swarm's come in to land. They're farming the pollen from the catkins.

[Jon]

There is a weeping willow covered in catkins in my neighbour's front garden and my bees are all over it. The catkins have just about finished now.

[gavin]

About myths. We have seen it said that Weeping Willow doesn't offer anything to bees because it's wind pollinated.

Whoever told you that is a numpty! Willow pollen does get airborne but it is usually sticky and the flowers secrete nectar too.

[Bumble]

Whoever told you that is a numpty!
There are a few of those on the internet.

[Jon]

On the internet and out and about as well!

[Neils]

I'm going to throw this out there and say nothing for now.

Smoke makes the bees think a fire is on the way and they're distracted filling up with honey in preparation to abandon the nest.

[Rosie]

The myth states more than that Nellie. After gorging themselves with honey they can't bend to inject their sting into you.

I suspect the truth is that the smoke impairs their ability to communicate so you need to cause a lot of bees to emit alarm pheromes before the others get the message.

Rosie

[Jon]

Most bees are sedated by smoke but I have come across the odd colony which reacts really badly - pouring out of the box.
They say the same thing about bees in a swarm - so tanked up with honey that they cannot bend to sting.
I remember helping my father collect a swarm in his garden. He lent me an old veil and I climbed about 20 feet up a ladder with a skep to shake it in. the bees were still above me and I reached up and shook the branch bringing half the swarm into the skep and the other half over my head. It was at that point I realized the veil was ripped to shreds and yes they do sting if you shake them on to your head.

[Neils]

Didn't think it would be this hard to track down more stories,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alkis/2612920681/

Row of hives vandalised by fire where, according to the comments, the bees didn't leave the hives.

One Flickr photo and a few comments is hardly conclusive I know, will try and do better. I did find another story from February this year, but the fate of the bees wasn't clear.

My google-fu has let me down around this but I've also been trying to find any papers around the effects of smoke on bees rather than beekeeper wisdom but I've drawn a blank so far.

[Neils]

Very useful and interesting links, I'm tempted to break these posts out into a specific AFB/EFB topic (especially given that it's lurking in a thread entitled "Myths") just to make it easier to find but I think I'll just create a thread to gather the links into one place.

[gavin]

Why not do both? Moving the EFB/AFB discussion was suggested to me this morning but I haven't got around to it yet. Seemed a good suggestion. And feel free to delete this post if you do.

G.

[Neils]

It is done, If you're in here wondering where the FoulBrood Discussion went, it can now be found Here (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?856-A-Discussion-on-Foulbrood)

I'll leave both our posts here for a bit of context for now as I feel I've just moved a bee hive and there'll be lots of confused people wondering where the discussion went otherwise.

Green text is for when I have my Moderator hat on :)