Insulating hive Sleeves

[Neils]

Had an interesting email this afternoon from some guy who's made up some insulating sleeves out of the material that electronic goods tend to come packaged in:

PDF document with photos. (http://www.ncsdatasolutions.co.uk/beekeeping/beehive insulation photos.pdf)

The only thing he didn't include in the email was how much it cost to buy.

[Calum]

hi
nice work, interesting idea, but why would you want to keep them warm?

[Neils]

Given the amount of insulation on my own hives (none) I'm not seeing a pressing need for extra insulation, maybe he could also bill them as an anti woodpecker sleeve?

[gavin]

Yes, nice idea but is it worth it?

Today I made up a few sheets of polystyrene for the colonies that don't already have them, but these will be going over the crown board and under the roof only. Most heat will be lost on top.

[Neils]

I've mailed the guy to ask what they're selling them for so we'll see. I'd think that if they cost more than a couple of pounds that you could knock up your own easily enough. I've continued to not use insulation again this year without apparent issues but I know our balmy Mediterranean climate down here obviously helps on that front.

[Calum]

Hi
none of mine are insulated apart from on the top with some sort of board made of sawdust bonded together with tar whatever thats called... Nights do get down to minus 20. Thats fine for the bees.
Keeping them cold reduces varroa, extends the longevity of winter bees and slows depletion of winter stores, (longer winter brood pause, and smaller autumn winter brood nest). You only want them to be warm when they need new brood - ie in the spring.

[Rosie]

I like Calum's comment. Side insulation couldn't be cheap enough for me. In fact I would not use them even if I was paid. We don't often see -20 here but my bees survived -18 last year and -17 the year before but they wintered particularly well on both occasions. This year has been much warmer so far but I doubt if it will make much difference to survivalbility - they will probably just eat more and emerge from the winter with more varroa and brood diseases.

Rosie

[gavin]

I'm not so sure about that, the winter survival (agree on the side insulation of course). We had serious losses here two winters back and the polystyrene hives survived much better than the wood. Is it not the case that early cold is no problem, but early warmth wastes stores and late cold is a killer for colonies with depleted stores?

This winter could be a bad one for those beekeepers who have skimped on either the feeding or the Varroa control.

[Calum]

what did the bees in the wooden hives die of? Was it the same beekeeper keeping wood and poly hives (same varroa treatment/feeding/queen quality/strength of colony in autumn)?

[gavin]

Two different large-scale beekeepers, each with polyhives and wooden hives. Plus secondhand reports of others with the same. Don't know what they died of, but whole apiaries dying was enough to persuade me that a bit of top insulation is a good idea.

[Calum]

Hi Gavin,
I use some top insulation too, it doesnt really make much difference as far as I can tell. I am not really for fully insulating my colonies though. As stated above, they can cope with the cold (at least if they are healthy and well stocked) and I see disadvantages of them staying longer in brood.

[Rosie]

I was talking only about side insulation. I too use top insulation and started many years ago when people were still putting matchsticks under the roof. I don't fit top insulation to keep them warm but to prevent condensation above the nest. I have single wooden nationals with open mesh floors and with that arrangement the bees seem impervious to temperature. I was once advised by an experienced old boy not to put matchsticks under the crown board but to remove the crown board completely just to keep the bees cold. I don't think it's necessary to go to that extreme provided omfs are left open. I have never witnessed any ill effects from cold and suspect the beekeepers who get better survival rates with warm hives are missing the real explanation. Perhaps they have badly adapted bees, leaky wooden roofs, solid floors or soggy untreated woodwork.

Rosie

[Neils]

I've never found condensation to be a problem so far, including the hive with a polycarbonate "glass" crown board. All of the hives have a super between the Crown board and the roof to hold various nicknacks (not least a tub of fondant) and they seem to do ok.

[gavin]

I left a glass crownboard on a few winters back and when I looked in (was it Feb?) you could see the water dripping off it onto the cluster below. That was before I used any top insulation of course.

[Neils]

I don't doubt it occurs and I was worried last year when it was much colder but touch wood, it's never been an apparent problem in my hives to date.

[gavin]

I'm sure that polycarbonate is better, but despite reading the warnings in the books I left a real glass one in place. Also that was before I used mesh floors I think.

[Neils]

Didn't consider matchsticks then? ;)

I think with glass I'd have been more concerned. The hive with the polycarbonate board does have some smoker fuel stashed in the super but the heat when the roof was removed was certainly noticeable. Perhaps that's giving it a little more insulation than just going from crown board to the roof.

[gavin]

Didn't consider matchsticks then? ;)


Not for a moment! Not aware of anyone up here recommending such a thing, although the BBKA doesn't have a monopoly on foolishness.

[Rosie]

I left a glass crownboard on a few winters back and when I looked in (was it Feb?) you could see the water dripping off it onto the cluster below. That was before I used any top insulation of course.

I used to have mainly glass quilts and insulated them from the start with a sheet of flexible insulation. In the winter I could remove the roof and peel back a corner of the insulation to look at the cluster below. I could feel the warmth of the freshly exposed glass and also watch the underside steam up after about a minute with the insulation removed. I don't have many with glass now but only because my hive numbers have grown and I have been buying wooden crown boards because of their price and durability.

Although I don't use matchsticks (and never have) I don't think they are as daft as Gavin appears to believe. I think any way of preventing top condensation is worthwhile whether it be by insulation or enhanced ventilation.

Rosie

[Neils]

Well I got some prices....

£33 for a national
£38 for a 14x12

I think that includes a sleeve for a super as well

Brood box on its own:
£16.30
£21.30 for a 14x12

"Roof" only
£8.30

All excl VAT and postage.

I was going to send them a link to Payne's Poly brood boxes and roof as you could flog all your wood boxes and switch over to Poly hives for less. While I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea, if it costs more to retrofit existing hives than it does to just buy new stuff then it's a non starter.

[Adam]

I could feel the warmth of the freshly exposed glass and also watch the underside steam up after about a minute with the insulation removed.

Rosie
I've seen that too.

[Adam]

I have a 5 frame nuc with a tiny colony in it (made up from apidea left-overs), it's surrounded by a 2" insulation sleeve and is still going strong. The roof is glued onto the insulation so the whole thing lifts off the nuc.