Ambrosia vs plain syrup/Fondant

[Neils]

Just wondering if there is a consensus on Ambrosia compared to dunking a bag of sugar into water.

I've ordered some fondant this year as part of my grand queen rearing experiment but other than a sales pitch from a guy that acts as a distributor for the stuff who was, funnily enough, quite enthusiastic about it I've not really found much in the way of ringing endorsements apart from seeing a few people who I respect as beekeepers exchanging big containers of the syrup over the last year.

Is it worth the premium over normal syrup (with a squirt of thymol in it)?

[GRIZZLY]

I've used Ambrosia liquid and fondant for a couple of seasons.It's much easier to use - no mixing or juggling around to find cheap sugar.It;s used at the same strength for spring stimulation feeding and main autumn feeding.It doesnt crystallise if stored for protracted periods.neither does it seem to support moulds.The fondant comes in 2.5 kg plastic packs - just right to cut open and place over the top bars of 5 or 6 frame neucs.The 12.5 kg plastic containers are again just right to fill my Ashforth feeders.Finaly and most importantly,the bees love it.I haven't mixed thymol with mine-it doesn't need a preservative and I prefer to treat Varroa with O.A.As for cost Its almost the same price as sugar without the hassle of upsetting the wifes kitchen and cooking pans etc.The only sugar I use is when I mix up my O.A solution and that only involves using hot water from the kettle and mixing by vigorous shaking of the component parts in a sealed 2 litre milk bottle.

[EmsE]

I have used sugar bags for the past couple of years and they've worked fine but this year I have some hives with fondant on. I only put these on the hive in the past couple of weeks so will be interested to make a comparrison between the 2. I was given the fondant by my sister who doesn't approve of sugar bags- I was told it was lazy bee keeping:rolleyes:

One thing with the sugar bags is that you get an awful lot on the floor board (what a waste)- so is this a sign that it isn't
as easy for the bees to use as the fondant?

[Calum]

I mix 4-6 kg honey with 10kg castersugar. Works a treat. I think using sugarbags means the bees have to haul alot of water to process it. Fondant is overly expensive, but the packs are handy if they fit in a frame. My mix is cheaper than fondant, wetter than sugarbags and closer to what they really want, I believe.

[Neils]

I've tended to buy bako fondant in bulk which normally works out cheaper than bags of sugar as I get it cost price from our local baker in exchange for a jar of honey. Looking at the ingredients for Ambrosia it seems to be basically the same thing but 4 times the price. The syrup seems to be a "better" mix than just sucrose, but on the label at least I don't see much difference with the fondant.

[Mellifera Crofter]

I mix 4-6 kg honey with 10kg castersugar. Works a treat. ... My mix is cheaper than fondant, wetter than sugarbags and closer to what they really want, I believe.

How do you give this mixture to the bees, Calum? Does it form a fondant/candy-like cake that doesn't drip?
Kitta

[Calum]

Hi Kitta
yes it is quite stiff fondant/candy-like cake - especially when cool (I keep mine in the greenhouse so it is maleable). But care has to be taken when putting it above the bees when the weather is hot, more so a mix with 6kg honey.
It can start to flow onto the bees if it gets too warm. I put newspaper between the bees and the mix (in the 'futterkammer'), thats enough to prevent it flowing down on them. Feeding to a colony I have a plywood backed frame that i fill with the mix, then I tack down another sheet at the topwith a gap so the bees can get in and out, works fine, and does not mean I have to give the bees extra space above the frames - they have to heat that too.
http://www.karlheinz-graf.de/js/imkerei/bilder/EWKfuellen.gif

[fatshark]

Our association buys in bulk and fondant is fractionally less per kilo than sugar (72p vs 74p last year). Fondant is much easier to use (http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/PENotes/Fondant.htm) and you can store any leftovers for using in mini-nucs the following season. In my experience syrup - unless containing thymol - does not store well. This winter I've only used fondant though I've got some Neopoll as a treat for the colonies in the spring.

[gavin]

I've been using Peter's method for a few years - at least for winter top-ups. Didn't realise (should have done!) that you were in his association FS.

Given that fondant contains more water than sugar, I think that the price is a little less advantageous than the cheapest dry sugar. It is easier to handle though - no mixing, just slice through with a knife.

Last year I used Murray's Swienty polystyrene feeders on a couple of the association hives. Very straightforward, very high capacity, can be left on overwinter. I might go that way in future, especially if we can get organised for a bulk buy of Apisuc, the cheaper Ambrosia look-alike.

As far as I know, if you want to buy bakery fondant in Scotland you can try a local bakery (they may add to their order for you), or try John Taylor at Inver who had some in his store room at New Year, or direct from the only wholesale place in Scotland at Livingston (best phone first):

http://www.bfpwholesale.com/

G.

[Mellifera Crofter]

... Feeding to a colony I have a plywood backed frame that i fill with the mix, then I tack down another sheet at the topwith a gap so the bees can get in and out, works fine, and does not mean I have to give the bees extra space above the frames - they have to heat that too.

Thanks Calum. I suppose you mean a 'frame feeder' (the plywood-backed frame) for the colony - but I don't understand the Futterkammer (feeding chamber?). Is it a mini hive like an apidea with an observation window?

Kitta

[Calum]

hi
its a single small frame box for keeping queens in till the mate. 400g fondant, a ladle of shook bees (sprayd with water so they bunch better, a virgin queen. 2 days in a cool dark place and they start extending the starter strip of foundation and you see they have taken the queen. They are kept in weatherproof boxes outside, the windows on the sides make it really easy to observe if the queen is laying yet, and to locate her for marking and capture for transfer to a shook swarm later (once the first cells are closed - so you can see if see is laying right). She can be kept in one of these happily for about 3 weeks after she starts laying...
http://www.ringelrose.de/bienen/images/ewk.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/4666358525_d8f83f82c4.jpg

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks Calum - I'm keeping these images until I know a bit more about queen rearing. I think I may find them useful.

Kitta