Oil Seed Rape and neonicotinoid seed coatings

[Jon]

Apparently almost all the oil seed rape in the UK is now seed coated with neonicotinoid.

I have about 20 acres of OSR near my bees at least every other year and have never seen a problem with it. In fact my bees build up really well on it due to the abundance of nectar and high quality pollen.
Has anyone really noticed a problem with oil seed rape?
I note today that the usual suspects have started up the annual anti neonic campaign and the Herald has a ridiculous article today penned by a journalist spoon fed by billy bonkers.

Headline -
Scientists link mass death of British bees to farm pesticides

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/environment/scientists-link-mass-death-of-british-bees-to-farm-pesticides.1326596745

Wow, mass death of British bees, must have missed that, and so has the bbka as they published figures last year stating the colony numbers in the UK had increased from 40,000 to 120,000 over a 3 year period. The figure of 120,000 is a year old now and may well be higher now given all the new beekeepers taking up the craft.

The issue here is to sift the truth from the propaganda and the usual bone idle lazy journalism.
Beekeepers need to be aware of problems caused by pesticides but talking about 'mass deaths' when there has been a huge increase in colony numbers is journalism at its laziest.
There are big problems with beekeeping in the US but thankfully beekeeping seems to be doing very well in the UK as long as you keep on top of varroa.

There are problems with neonicotinoids when they are misapplied such as the colonies killed in Germany in 2008 but thankfully these events seem to be quite rare.

This is the paper (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0029268) the current media storm is based upon.

[Neils]

Made the Guardian too:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jan/13/honeybee-problem-critical-point?intcmp=122

[Jon]

The main problem is that these articles imply that the problem is in the UK whereas the study refers to US corn monoculture.
They discuss these issues without the hysteria on Bee-L (http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A0=BEE-L).
The absolute worst place to start in order to gain an understanding is the UK press as these articles are based on press releases from the usual suspects.

[Adam]

Last year there was a 14 acre field of OSR just under a mile away from me. Bees loved it.
Two years before that there was a field 2 miles away. Bees loved that too!

Full supers and plenty of bees doesn't indicate a problem in my mind!


Here's another such article.

http://www.linkedin.com/news?viewArticle=&articleID=5563621341803839498&gid=1583887&type=member&item=89449582&articleURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.countercurrents.org%2F thompson130112.htm&urlhash=YUvy&goback=.gde_1583887_member_89449582.gmr_1583887.gd e_1583887_member_89449582

[Neils]

Pretty much the same as the other two then.

I do find it interesting at the moment that generally we in the UK are happy to poo-poo most US agriculture as how not to do it but when it comes to bees we should take studies in the US as gospel as to what's going on here. Funnily enough I see a lot of differences between Bristol, let alone English, beekeeping and Scottish Beekeeping in terms of what people are talking about, what's affect and effecting things yet we're supposed to drop everything when another US centric beekeeping story emerges.

I've not turned anything up yet, but are there any links to EPA scientists warning about neonicotinoids effect on beneficial insects prior to their approval as quoted in the Adam's article.

[GRIZZLY]

Pretty much the same as the other two then.

I've not turned anything up yet, but are there any links to EPA scientists warning about neonicotinoids effect on beneficial insects prior to their approval as quoted in the Adam's article.

Nellie,surely you remember the ramblings of E.McA ?

[Rosie]

I used to live in an area with oil seed rape everywhere. I used to even keep my breeding bees in a rape field. Since moving to a pastoral area with virtually no arable at all I have not noticed any difference in the health of my bees - just a drastically reduced crop!

Rosie

[The Drone Ranger]

I used to live in an area with oil seed rape everywhere. I used to even keep my breeding bees in a rape field. Since moving to a pastoral area with virtually no arable at all I have not noticed any difference in the health of my bees - just a drastically reduced crop!

Rosie

Hi Rosie
Did you keep the same bees when you moved ?

One of the reasons for commercial carniolan choice is their cycle of early colony development fits better with rape.

I guess if you switched to other bees after moving that would muddy the waters a bit because that could affect your honey crop anyway

Re- Eric Mc while I don't agree with a lot of things he says I still think the forum shouldn't have permanently banned him that seems unfair to me.

[Rosie]

Hi DR

I kept the same bees although my selection process tends to work against the early starters so they may be gradually changing.

When I first obtained the stocks I was warned by the seller that they would not collect rape because they were ideally suited to late crops, lime in particular. As it happened, in my region, they developed early enough to take full advantage of rape. One year they were near some mustard that flowered even earlier than the rape (it was planted as pheasant cover). They built up very well on the mustard and were fully developed by the time the rape came out. Afterwards they were able to reach a bean field. That was my best year and I averaged about 150lbs of honey plus a number of new colonies from them.

I think their development speed depends a lot on the forage and weather conditions and here that means they are slow. I stimulate a few with thin syrup each year to get my queen rearing off to an early start. They respond to that provided they can reach pollen.

Rosie

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi DR

I kept the same bees although my selection process tends to work against the early starters so they may be gradually changing.

When I first obtained the stocks I was warned by the seller that they would not collect rape because they were ideally suited to late crops, lime in particular. As it happened, in my region, they developed early enough to take full advantage of rape. One year they were near some mustard that flowered even earlier than the rape (it was planted as pheasant cover). They built up very well on the mustard and were fully developed by the time the rape came out. Afterwards they were able to reach a bean field. That was my best year and I averaged about 150lbs of honey plus a number of new colonies from them.

I think their development speed depends a lot on the forage and weather conditions and here that means they are slow. I stimulate a few with thin syrup each year to get my queen rearing off to an early start. They respond to that provided they can reach pollen.

Rosie

Thanks for that info Rosie In some ways I wish I wasn't in the heart of oil seed rape land but I am and my slow starters (they're the minority)just come up with enough for themselves.
We sometimes see beans but mostly its rape/potatoes/grain.
When I win the lottery its off to grow lavender and clover and all the plants that need chalky soil and sunny weather :)
Don't know if the nicotine dressings affect other insects but bees only have a few field/weeks so they are Ok and the rape is early in the season so the winter bees are safe.
That david attenborough woolly caterpillar that takes 12 years to pupate might be a different though :)

[Rosie]

Despite what the books say I think it's a good thing to have your colonies developing at different rates. It means they will not all swarm on the same day and they reach their peaks at different times to better take advantage of good spells of weather nectar flows.

Sorry to have wandered off topic.

Rosie

[The Drone Ranger]

mine usually coincide the swarming with the peak of the rape so I foil them with Snelgrove boards and that takes me past the end of the rape with a very strong colony.
On the noenicotinoid subject I think it's better on the whole than spraying for beetles and pest while my bees are on the crop.
Black bee enthusiasts should campaign against rape subsidies removing the main need for imported queens at a a stroke :)

[gavin]

Nice try DL. Why not go for slightly less swarmy bees? Saves a lot of bother if you can normally get through the OSR season (and get a good crop) and deal with swarms at the end of it rather than all that mucking about with fancy boards?!

I think that the Single Farm Payment Scheme (since 2005?) means that no-one can pick on OSR now - planting choices are more market-driven.

And ... I can let you into a secret. The imidacloprid seed dressing is good for (ie kills) flea beetle and maybe aphids on young plants but by the time the pollen beetles come calling the insecticide is wearing off. Maybe that is why bees seem to thrive on it, despite all these horrendous synergistic disasters people seem to expect to see. That'll be why the farmers turn to *another* neonicotinoid to spray on OSR at flowering time. Shock-horror ... but the bees still seem to enjoy the yellow peril. Still see very little Nosema (to get back on track).

http://www.bayercropscience.co.uk/product/insecticides/biscaya/

Prior to thiacloprid they used a pyrethroid which had the same active ingredient as one of the Varroa treatments.

[Stromnessbees]

Re- Eric Mc while I don't agree with a lot of things he says I still think the forum shouldn't have permanently banned him that seems unfair to me.

I agree with you there. I think Eric wasn't familiar with the wondrous ways of internet fora yet and should be given a second chance.

Also, too much consensus can make a forum a bit bland. :rolleyes:

[Jon]

I mostly enjoyed the debate with Eric although his conclusions are fixed irrespective of new or changing evidence. That what I was alluding to in the other thread when I compared anti pesticide campaigners to religious devotees. If you believe it, you believe it. Real world evidence will not shake your beliefs as it is a matter of faith rather than a matter of evidence. I would be perfectly prepared to argue for a ban on neonicotinoids should there be compelling evidence. At the moment there is not and before anyone mentions precautionary principle we would ban cars and petrol under that principle as well. Deaths traps powered by a dangerous bee killing poison produced by anti democratic mid eastern Governments in many cases.

[gavin]

As it happens I rescinded Eric's ban before the anniversary was up in March, but never got around to telling him. He is welcome to post again subject to the normal conventions of politeness and relevance.

And Jon, that's quite enough about death traps powered by bee-killing poisons sold by horrid large multinationals like BP. I'm currently teaching my son how to work one.

[Jon]

Might need to fire off a press release to the Independent then so they can highlight the dangers of motor transport and the environmental degradation which ensues. The public are clearly unaware of this.

[gavin]

I'm sure that you'll be able to find a lazy, award-winning journalist to take it up.