Diesel fumes killing bees?

[Trog]

Another possible possible culprit for bee losses? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-15215693

[The Drone Ranger]

As soon as funds are available for anything, whether it is bees or global warming, suddenly people who previously had no interest in climate or beekeeping but want research grants to pay their wages, find that actually they are really interested,and, have found some obscure yet vitally important area of research, which if ignored will result in catastrophe.

How brilliant if both can be rolled up into one research project.
Think I'm joking then see this months SBA magazine.
Somebody might suggest to this researcher that looking for the effects of global warming might be futile in a maritime climate like Scotland and to try some area where bee survival is marginal.
Course that's a bit more difficult than just sitting on your butt asking for input from beekeepers for your statistical manipulations.

All the campaigns to get funds for beekeeping research seem only have opened the door to people who like to spend money with no useful purpose in mind.

Maybe somebody should tell these guys that honey bee colonies are not collapsing
Anybody seen a UFO recently ? How about a witch on a broomstick ?

[Trog]

Diesel cars have increased enormously as they're more economical to run. There was something on Radio 4 recently about the diesel fumes harming humans. In USA bees are transported huge distances on diesel-guzzling lorries along roads presumably also well dosed with diesel fumes. They have a problem with CCD. Worth investigating IMHO.

[Jon]

This sounds just like the Dundee research only it's diesel rather than Imidacloprid.



In USA bees are transported huge distances on diesel-guzzling lorries

Colony movement was one of the first things they looked at when ccd struck and there is nothing in it according to any of the research.

Next up, feta cheese behind bee decline.


Maybe somebody should tell these guys that honey bee colonies are not collapsing

Exactly. In the uk bees are doing very well.

[Trog]

You guys are sounding like a stuck record! So, you're quite happy that bees foraging along a motorway or busy road are not taking in anything they shouldn't. Likewise you are happy to gather brambles and fungi by a main road? I never have.

[The Drone Ranger]

It won't be aircraft and jet engines because that is too inconvenient.

Mediterranean diet will see you live to 100 and still be active
Nothing whatever to do with them having nice sunny weather no central heating and year round access to being outside.
The 6 months of miserable weather we get every year can be cancelled out by a few drops of olive oil some peppers and a load of researchers measuring the wrong thing.

Eat 5 fruit and vegetables live forever :)

[The Drone Ranger]

You guys are sounding like a stuck record! So, you're quite happy that bees foraging along a motorway or busy road are not taking in anything they shouldn't. Likewise you are happy to gather brambles and fungi by a main road? I never have.

I love your enthusiasm Trog gathering brambles and mushrooms.
Hows the mead coming along :)

[Trog]

No mead, Droney, but I do like to gather a few brambles to go with the windfall apples in a crumble or pie. I've known since I was knee high to a grasshopper not to gather anything from roadsides. Not enough apples or crab apples for jelly this year due to the appalling May weather but we've had a few chanterelle mushrooms so far. When I spend a few days in a city, I notice a real difference in my skin and hair. Would be very surprised if the pollution doesn't affect bees in some way and it's for scientists to make the measurements (I've not used a microscope for donkey's years and never looked at anything more complicated than pond water!). I'm happy enough for them to be paid for doing so.

[The Drone Ranger]

I've got some mead going now on advice from Nellie
Grizzly has a prize winning recipe but so far is keeping it quiet.
Jon is using apples not honey (his mead might be a bit like scrumpy)

Mushrooms along paths are a bit dodgy (dog pee)

The cat is being kept away from my mead as he may have contaminated my last batch of wine.(people said it tasted like cat p..)

I've got 2 microscopes they are fearfully heavy and my wife has banned them from the kitchen table
I have a rocking microtome but haven't learned to play anything on it yet

Wallet is much lighter now due to supermarkets forming a sugar cartel
Are your bees alright ?

[Trog]

Yup! Don't collect anything that might be within a dog's reach, whether brambles, mushrooms, wild raspberries or wild strawberries!

[gavin]

Oh, goodness. I know Guy Poppy and thought that he was better than this.

I swapped my petrol car for a diesel one this summer and the bees really enjoy their trips in it. The bee farmers use diesel-powered Unimogs and their bees are thriving too. If there was any relation between bee health and proximity to roads someone would have noticed by now. Bees are thriving in the urban centres where carbon microparticles abound.


This sounds just like the Dundee research only it's diesel rather than Imidacloprid.

.....

Exactly. In the uk bees are doing very well.

Why on earth do people want to chase shadows that don't exist? Daft, totally daft. Such a waste.

[gavin]

Guess what - they are postulating that nanoparticles are interfering with bee brains and causing them to lose their way! Sound familiar?! Wink, wink ....

Yup, feta cheese, mobile phones, Tetra masts, sunspots, immigration, underage single motherhood, contrails, alien invasions, they all interfere with bee brains and cause them to lose their way home. You'd better believe it.

From the University of Southamptom website:

New research: are global honey bee declines caused by diesel pollution?

Ref: 11/97

07 October 2011

Scientists are investigating a possible link between tiny particles of pollution found in diesel fumes and the global collapse of honey bee colonies.

Professor Guy Poppy, an ecologist, Dr Tracey Newman, a neuroscientist, and their team from the University of Southampton, believe that minuscule particles, or ‘nanoparticles’, emitted from diesel engines could be affecting bees’ brains and damaging their inbuilt ‘sat-navs’. They believe this may stop worker bees finding their way back to the hive.

The team is also investigating the possibility that nanoparticles are one of a number of stress factors that could lead to a tipping point in bee health, which in turn could contribute to bee colony collapse.

“Diesel road-traffic is increasing in the UK and research from the US has shown that nanoparticles found in its fumes can be detrimental to the brains of animals when they are exposed to large doses. We want to find out if bees are affected in the same way – and answer the question of why bees aren’t finding their way back to the hive when they leave to find food,” explains Professor Poppy.

Bees are estimated to contribute billions to the world’s economy - £430 million a year to the UK alone - by pollinating crops, producing honey and supporting employment. Yet winter losses have led to the loss of tens of thousands of beehives year on year since 2007. The US has seen a 35 per cent unexplained drop in the number of hives in 2007, 2008 and 2009*. Extensive research, including a recent United Nations Report, has so far not identified the cause of bee declines.

The team from the University of Southampton, including biologists, nanotechnology researchers and ecologists will test the behavioural and neurological changes in honey bees, after exposure to diesel nanoparticles.

Chemical ecologist Dr Robbie Girling, adds: “The diesel fumes may have a dual affect in that they may be mopping up flower smells in the air, making it harder for the bees to find their food sources.”

Recent research which has revealed more about the effects of nanoparticles has enabled scientists to investigate this possible link to bee colony collapse.

The three year study has been made possible by a Leverhulme Trust Research Project Grant of £156,000.

Notes for editors

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/br/ccd/ccdprogressreport2010.pdf

[Adam]

The previous couple of weekends I have been picking sloes and blackberries. The sloes go in gin and the blackberries go in the freezer. Last weekend I went for a run and finished up on a dirt path near houses and the hedgerows were full of the above and elderberries which make excellent wine. Why doesn't anyone pick them? 50 yards and there's a larder!


Relating to diesel, I did read somewhere that pollution has masked the smells that bees usually rely on so their ability to forage is reduced.

[Dan]

The cat is being kept away from my mead as he may have contaminated my last batch of wine.(people said it tasted like cat p..)

What I want to know is: how can they be so certain about the flavour of cat pee...?

[gavin]

When I spend a few days in a city, I notice a real difference in my skin and hair. Would be very surprised if the pollution doesn't affect bees in some way and it's for scientists to make the measurements (I've not used a microscope for donkey's years and never looked at anything more complicated than pond water!). I'm happy enough for them to be paid for doing so.

I notice the effect of air quality on my lungs. Can be stepping out into a London street after an overnight journey on the sleeper, or even here at a particularly spore-laden time of year. Maybe I have a touch of asthma. I guess that I'm not alone, and so I applaud research on air quality in cities and its effects on humans as it will inform policies designed to protect people.

What I cannot tolerate is researchers who are too lazy to properly research the topic before they make their assumptions. And funding mechanisms that permit the waste of scarce resources. In the case of imidacloprid and diesel fumes just some basic correlation of likely exposure and supposed effect would be nice. In these two cases there is none. Not a jot. Urban bees are thriving, so the likelihood of an effect of carbon particles on bee neurobiology is less than minimal.

The repeated invoking of neurobiological causes of bee decline is likely to demean the discipline in my view. Here were are, on a public forum, ridiculing it now.

Gavin

[AlexJ]

Trog’s point is certainly relevant – nobody on this forum believes that road vehicle emissions are benign to flora or fauna. While I’m unsighted to any work on bee health along roads or motorways, intuitively one would discourage bees from such a course of action – they’ll either get stuck in an empty lager can or squashed by an artic. :)

Though to indicate that transporting bee hives 1,000’s of miles on the back of articulated lorries; stopping to hose them down occasionally does no harm, and doesn’t contribute to ccd certainly doesn’t ring true with me. Also, it’s not the case that neonicitoniods don’t appear to have any effect on bee health – as before, a snippet, from a previous thread:

‘In a meta-analysis of fourteen published studies of the effects of imidacloprid on honey bees under laboratory and semi-field conditions that comprised measurements on 7073 adult individuals and 36 colonies, fitted dose–response relationships estimate that trace dietary imidacloprid at field-realistic levels in nectar will have no lethal effects, but will reduce expected performance in honey bees by between 6 and 20%.’

A meta-analysis of experiments testing the effects of a neonicotinoid insecticide (imidacloprid) on honey bees. James E. Cresswell, Ecotoxicology Nov 2010

At what level of pesticide effect on their honey bees does an informed beekeeper become concerned?

I suggest there’s a lack of objectivity creeping into the forum as ‘Dundee research’ bashing to discredit a yet unpublished piece of work isn’t helpful. I’ve yet to meet a scientist who has never ‘failed’ to prove a hypothesis or deliver 100% on each and every research project they embarked on. Save your knives for when the research is published – I’m sure you’ll have hours of endless fun. I for one look forward to reading the work – it may at least provide valuable data in a Scottish context for others to form their own opinions.

As an aside, another issue that may inform the debate on bee health and the issue of genetic modification/pesticide use is noted in the New Scientist 1 October 2011 Eating greens alters genes which highlights work ongoing to identify whether genes inserted into genetically modified crops affect the health of those who eat them (yes Monsanto gets a mention). While results have been ‘ambiguous’, to date work appears to have identified high plant concentrations of plant microRNA in human blood and animal organs....

[Jon]

I notice the effect of air quality on my lungs.

You should try Mexico City,about 20 million in the greater urban area and the smog is so bad you can't see the sun sometimes. When there is a rare clear view of the surrounding mountains you get pictures in the local press.

[Jon]

Also, it’s not the case that neonicitoniods don’t appear to have any effect on bee health – as before, a snippet, from a previous thread:

‘In a meta-analysis of fourteen published studies of the effects of imidacloprid on honey bees under laboratory and semi-field conditions that comprised measurements on 7073 adult individuals and 36 colonies, fitted dose–response relationships estimate that trace dietary imidacloprid at field-realistic levels in nectar will have no lethal effects, but will reduce expected performance in honey bees by between 6 and 20%.’.

Noone disputes that neonicotinoid and other pesticides kill bees but the point is does this happen in the field and the answer to that clearly appears to be no according to the published work.

The Cresswell quote above is from a review of lab and semi field studies.


Though to indicate that transporting bee hives 1,000’s of miles on the back of articulated lorries; stopping to hose them down occasionally does no harm, and doesn’t contribute to ccd certainly doesn’t ring true with me.

That is such an obvious hypothesis it was one of the first things they looked at with regard to the appearance of ccd and there appears to be no correlation. It has been discussed on Bee-L for years. The Americans have been shipping bees around the US for decades

[The Drone Ranger]

I suggest there’s a lack of objectivity creeping into the forum as ‘Dundee research’ bashing to discredit a yet unpublished piece of work isn’t helpful. ....

The person I referred to is not the Dundee research but an appeal for input by a researcher which appears in this months SBA magazine.
The research is trying to link bee losses with global warming. (here in Scotland ??)
The person concerned needs to take a long hard look at which bandwagon they are jumping on :)
They will probably get funding though because the money comes from people who are even more delusional than them.

One of the Dundee team's projects is listening to the bees but I'm pretty sure thats all been tried before.
I doubt if it was my £2M I would be happy with anything that was of no practical use to me.
Actually come to think of it it is my £2M quid cheek!!