Drone Laying Queens

[EmsE]

So far this year I've had 2 drone laying Queens and 2 that appear to be doing really well. The first Queen that became a drone layer was one that was raised just as the bad weather hit in May so wasn't unexpected. The second was one that was raised from the middle of June when the weather was much more settled. When I checked just over a week ago there were eggs but no larvae. Yesterday I noticed that the brood that is now capped is drone in the worker cells.

There have been plenty of drones in the apiary and certainly within the local area. Could the queen just need time to settle or is it a clear case of a DL Queen and best to remove her before she ruins many more of my combs?

[gavin]

If you have more than a few drone cells I think that it will be a hopeless case. I've had three drone laying queens this year. It looked to me as if the queens had given up and I put in a protected queen cell, a trick from Rosie as I recall (under his other name on the BBKA forum before they wrecked it). Two had a good queen take over. The other I had thought had failed as about a month had gone by and the bees remained tetchy and with no preparations for laying. I checked it again tonight and was very surprised to find good sheets of eggs. The bees will sort out the patch of drone brood in the middle of a couple of frames.

[Jon]

In my experience queens which start to lay too much drone brood only get worse over time before failing completely.
I have had 3 or 4 this year and I have one in a nuc which is laying about 15% drone in worker cells so that one is on the road to nowhere as well.

[EmsE]

Hi Gavin, I think then that it's a lost cause judging by the picture below. I'm now left to decide whether to unite this with the cast I caught the other week or try to raise a new Queen. Is it getting a bit late in the year for raising a new Queen for them particularly as the colony has gone so long without any worker brood?

[gavin]

Probably uniting with the cast is the better option but I wouldn't rule out getting a colony through the winter after raising a new queen.

Is that stock from a different line from the one Jimbo did morphometry on? It looks a bit more Carnie-ish with that pale halo of hairs on the thorax and drones with grey hairs. Might be wrong though.

Jon, is that worse than usual for you? Many around here have been having queen problems this year.

[Jon]

Not worse than usual. 3 or 4 out of 60 or more.
You will always get a few drone layers even when conditions are perfect.

[Jimbo]

I had 1 problem with a drone layer this year. I made a queenless colony to make queen cells. When the queen cells are removed I leave one cell to make the the colony queen right again. That queen cell failed to hatch (the fully mature queen was dead inside the cell). Within the week it turned to a drone layer colony. I resolved the problem by moving the hive a distance away from my other colonies and dumping the bees from the frames onto the grass. Most of the flying bees went back to the original site where there was no hive therfore found a home in the other colonies.
I have found mating good this year with all my splits and apideas now with mated and laying queens. The problem I have had this year is the bees are still swarmy. I found charged queen cells in a nuc colony with this years queen last week which is late for us.

[EmsE]

Is that stock from a different line from the one Jimbo did morphometry on? It looks a bit more Carnie-ish with that pale halo of hairs on the thorax and drones with grey hairs. Might be wrong though.


It's the (half) sister colony of the one you're thinking of. Her results were very different, but I can't seem to attach them for you to see. This one was left in the village to mate whereas I took the other to a site where there is a feral colony.

Both queens are now feral colonies :(. Time permitting, I think I'll try and learn to use some apedia's (not convinced that's the right spelling) next year as they're easier to move for mating purposes and can check they're laying well before they affect the full colony. You've all posted great info to learn from on queen raising over the past few months so I don't have any excuse next year, especially as my apiary move has now been done.

[gavin]

Hi Ems

I was looking at the association's bees today with a more critical eye after making these comments on yours. The strongest one in the association apiary also has that ring of paler hairs on the thorax of workers and drones that are not always as dark as they might be. It does put pollen all round the brood nest though.

We were fiddling with Apideas again today (you had the right letters but not necessarily in the right place!). I'm a convert, but should point out that everything I know about them came from various fora, and mostly from Jon on this one. I've been thinking of trying to persuade him to write the book on them. Excellent things to have.

One favoured colony had sealed queen cells today and was ready to go when the weather warmed up - maybe tomorrow.

all the best

Gavin

[EmsE]

I think Jon writing a book on this would be an excellent idea!! Just let us know when it's been published.

Going up to the apiary soon finish the remaining ground work (digging some level patches) before it gets too warm and then to sort out the DL Queen. Hopefully she's the last of the season.