How far did your swarm go?

[darlo]

I realise that this is a piece of string question, but I was wondering if anyone has any idea of the distance that a swarm is able to travel?

Do they have a minimum distance they prefer to swarm, so not to then be in competition with the old hive from which they came?

The reason for my interest, is while watching my hives yesterday afternoon, the sound of a swarm was heard, but it was not from my hives, and could not be seen. 30 minutes later while walking back to the house, about 50 yards away, I discovered a large cluster of bees, hanging about 25 feet up, on a Oak branch. Too far for a capture, so decided to place a bait hive nearby, just in case!

This morning at about 0730, the cluster was still there and obviously concerned in retaining heat. This afternoon, at around 1500, no sign of them, apart from a few straggler bees around the branch they were on. Couldn't see any activity at the bait hive, so presume they had a better place in mind.

This made me wonder where, and how far they can travel in search of a new home?

Look forward to your replies.

[Neils]

I've got a video of a waggle dance being performed in a swarm. The duration on that particular dance is approximately 1.5 seconds so would appear to indicate that they're scouting sites approximately 1300 meters (.8 of a mile) away in that instance.

In terms of where they first settle, they needn't go very far at all, I was helping a friend out last weekend with perhaps the biggest swarm I've ever seen! And they'd gone all of about 3 meters from the hive and were helpfully hanging on an easy to reach branch.

[darlo]

Very interesting. I has three swarms, all landing within a few yards of the hives, two were caught, but the third was too high, and then vanished, so I hope they do well in their chosen site.

[chris]

René, the famous swarm catcher down here, says that if the swarm is too high up, then you bang on a box with a hard stick, and the bees come down into it. I've seen him do it, but I don't know why it works. And if the swarm is flying, he throws a few handfuls of sand at it.................:eek:

[Neils]

Now that I'd like to see Chris. For the life of me I can't think why banging a box would work but hey ho that's why I'm not a famous swarm catcher I guess :D

[Jon]

Howling at the moon is therapeutic and I am sure that throwing handfuls of sand at an airborne swarm is good for the soul as well. The alternative would be to clip a wing and carry out weekly inspections.:)

[gavin]

Traditionally it was banging a saucepan wasn't it? Maybe it is the noise then, and not the flashing of reflected sun. I'm tempted to give it a go myself, but then swarms are a rare event in my apiary, even with no queen clipping. :p

[EmsE]

Traditionally it was banging a saucepan wasn't it?

I thought that was just the chickens it worked on (that's how I get them back in the pen when needed- they think they're getting a gourmet meal :)). I'd better be careful as I've seen a lot of honey bees visiting my garden this year.

[chris]

The alternative would be to clip a wing and carry out weekly inspections.:)

Jon, your dad must think you're lost beyond all hope.

[Jon]

Every time I speak to him he has a report of another swarm and he often doesn't bother to remove queen cells so lots of casts as well. I have never seen him banging a box with a stick or throwing handfuls of sand, not at bees anyway, but I have seen him attempt to bring down an airborne swarm with a garden hose, ie spraying it rather than trying to lasso it.
15 colonies in his garden. Must be mayhem for the neighbours.

Clipping is pointless unless you inspect regularly as your swarm will go a week later with the first virgin out.

[chris]

Interesting about the spraying. René says that the sand has the same effect as water (I guess water is more precious in Provence than in Belfast). Oh yes, the box banging.......................they think it's thunder:o

There is so much folk lore attached to beekeeping, and listening to stories from people who have been around bees, for 50 odd (very odd) years is fascinating. Of course, much revolved around swarms and swarming. I wonder why that has changed. Fear of bees from a public that has had less and less contact with them? An attempt by beekeepers to have the control? Personally, I will always prefer the *art* of beekeeping to the science- perhaps in my hands, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing:confused:

[Jon]

Fear of bees from a public that has had less and less contact with them?

It's not just bees. People are more fearful of a lot of things and a lot of that is because they have little or no understanding of the natural world and natural phenomena.
Most people are not connected with nature like they would have been a couple of generations back.
Even in a rural place like Ireland, hardly anyone knows how to grow their own food any more. The older people often do.
The countryside is a scary place for many city dwellers with giant bovine creatures, kicking horses and wiry farmers on tractors..
A lot of farmers used to keep a hive or two at the bottom of a field and would have had some understanding of bee lifecycle and care.
One of the good things about beekeeping is that it makes you look at what is going on in your own environment as you are drawn to examine the crops, flowers, and trees the bees are foraging on at any given time. You get a far better notion of the seasonal nature of things.

The UK press is very unhelpful to an appreciation of bees with its idiotic headlines. Swarms are often reported as 'attacking' something and are generally contain 'killer' bees as opposed to Buckfast or AMM.
The environmental sections of the Guardian and the Independent pump out a never ending stream of stories linking bee decline to pesticides without taking the time to consider available evidence. Non beekeepers ask me all the time if I have had that colony collapse thing.

[Neils]

agreed, had my usual novel prepared and ready to go but it took things a little (ahem :rolleyes:) off topic.

I think it's a two part process though, you've got that little general exposure on the one hand and much of what does count as exposure is either utter codswallop or people don't actually want to see.

[Beejud]

As a bit of an aside regarding killer bee headlines in the papers, my farrier was shoeing my old horse today and said he had heard of a couple of people dying after being attacked by large numbers of bees coming out of a hive that had been knocked over. This was apparently two days or so ago. I was surprised to hear this and told him I thought if that was true you guys would have been talking about it on the forum. I googled it and it turns out that there was an incident in England but involved four horses dying rather than human casualties. Two horses were thought to have drowned in a pond trying to escape and the other two had fatal reactions to the stings. The bees apparently came from hives kept by the people who owned the horses. The Guardian etc will love that story. Probably caused by pesticides! It is rather unusual though.

[chris]

Two horses were thought to have drowned in a pond trying to escape

When I performed my disastrous, aborted transfer from a Dadant nuc to a Warré, and set the village abuzz with killer Provence mongrels, the village dogs all went straight into the river. They showed a lot more sense than the villagers.

[Neils]

I'm saying nothing. Already got into trouble talking about this elsewhere :)

[chris]

I'm saying nothing.
C'mon Nellie.Don't leave me guessing:rolleyes:

[Jon]

When I performed my disastrous, aborted transfer from a Dadant nuc to a Warré, and set the village abuzz with killer Provence mongrels, the village dogs all went straight into the river. They showed a lot more sense than the villagers.

This puts me in mind of a cross between a scene from the Pied Piper of Hamlyn and one of the old black and white Hammer movies where the villagers run around with raised pitchforks and storm the castle gates at the end.
When our dog got stung a couple of years ago she went down like she had been taken out by a sniper. She goes for a swim in the Lagan most days irrespective of killer bees in the air.

[gavin]

If that was anaphylalxis then if your dog can sit politely, chat for an hour, and eat NHS sandwiches then maybe she/he will be able to be cured on the NHS?!

Even if you live in another century Chris, surely you had a camera to hand as you peppered the village with stinging bees?

[chris]

Gavin, you ask that of someone who has never owned a portable phone. Nor a bank card. Anyway I was in no state to take photos. It was whilst I was groggily waiting for the *pompiers* and violently coughing through the smoke that René had pumped around me that he started banging his box, and the swarm that I'd created went into it. I woke up in hospital.René kept the swarm. I think, Jon, that Kafka springs to my mind.

[Jon]

I woke up in hospital.René kept the swarm. I think, Jon, that Kafka springs to my mind.

And what kind of slithering creature did you see the first time you caught your reflection in the window!

Kafka comes up all the time in Mexico. The journalists love the phrase Situación kafkaiana (http://www.wordreference.com/definicion/kafkiano)
kafkaiano(a) ie an adjective relating to Kafka is in the Spanish dictionary and thesaurus which comes with word.
Fair play to you for avoiding the mobile phone. I haven't had a TV for 20 years and people think I am stone mad because I cannot name (m)any celebrities.

Firemen are also known as pumpers in spanish. Bombero- fireman bomba - pump

[chris]

Just to get back to the original question, Yves Le Conte (no Jon, not le Conte Dracula) a research scientist at l'INRA,states that on first leaving the hive, the swarm normally fixes on a support at a maximum of a few dozen meters away. The final destination is ideally within several hundred meters of the mother colony.

[b.lambert]

I Had a swarm last Sunday morning 3rd July. I awoke feeling a little delicate from being out the night before, the phone rang at 9.30am from a neighbor inquiring if I had lost any bees. Got the bee suit on and went to investigate thinking the worst like what if they have gone into their chimney? However my neighbor led me into the field at the back which is known locally as the terraces where there are many old ash trees right at the top of the field there were the bees a typical text book swarm hanging from an accessible branch (could not believe my luck!) after assessing the situation I walked back down the hill collected the secateurs, cardboard box and another bee suit, on seeing the cardboard box he said 'they will never fit in there' I assured him they would. He told me he had been for a walk the previous evening and had nearly walked into them! we then went back up the hill he was reluctant to help at first but I assured him he would be safe and that all he had to do was cut the branch for me and I would hold the box by 10.00 they were all in the box which I turned upside down onto a sheet, I picked them up later that evening and re hived them. I believe the distance to be about 400m from the hive. I think they are my bees and it will be interesting on inspecting them next week to see if it has my marked queen in there! I fed them straight away and had a peek in yesterday and they are drawing the frames, throughout the week between showers they have been bringing in copious amounts of pollen. That was the ultimate in swarm collection I don't think I could ever be that lucky again!

[Hoomin_erra]

Not sure how far they travelled, but a swarm moved into an empty hive i had at the top of the property.

Probably only about 100 - 200 bees.They've been there a week, and have been fed. Might give them a frame of brood from my rapidly expanding colony.

On that note, what is the best way to transport a frame of brood. Trip will be about an hour.

[Trog]

We were called out to a swarm late this afternoon. It was in a hedge in a back street and at a perfect height to collect. We had to leave a few bees behind as we couldn't hang around more than an hour but got most of them back (carried the box through the streets) and hived them this morning. Don't think they're ours as we checked them all a couple of days ago so they may be ferals. With a bit of luck the remaining ten or so will go back where they came from!

[GRIZZLY]

My furthest swarm this year went about 100meters and landed nicely on a small tree,the shortest distance was to cling to the back of the next door hive - about 2 meters away.Not an easy swarm to collect without annoying their host.I had one once that flew over the rooftops and landed in the front hedge of a local nunnery.I spotted the queen landing in this one,grabbed her into my fist where the bees clustered over my hand and arm.All I had to do to hive this was to walk home with them and shake the lot off my arm into an empty hive. The chief nun sent me a nice letter in the next days post saying how interesting she and her "girls" had found the whole episode.(This was down south in Royal Leamington Spa in my previous life).

[gavin]

A photo or even better a video of that would brighten a forum considerably!

[GRIZZLY]

A photo or even better a video of that would brighten a forum considerably!

I agree but this incident was about 25 years ago,long before I could afford a video camera.

[gavin]

So now that you do have enough resources for a video camera ... do you have a nunnery locally?!

[GRIZZLY]

So now that you do have enough resources for a video camera ... do you have a nunnery locally?!

Unfortunately the local nunnery is now a bed and breakfast and about 5 miles away as the bee flys.That would be a long distance swarm!!!.

[gavin]

You could improvise. Old people's home, nurses' quarters, posh school, office block, that kind of thing. Just as long as you do the swarm-on-the-arm thing in front of a crowd of onlookers.

[Jon]

swarm-on-the-arm thing in front of a crowd of onlookers.

That sounds even more impressive than falconry.

Now if you could toss a prime swarm in the air and train it to return to your arm....

[GRIZZLY]

That sounds even more impressive than falconry.

Now if you could toss a prime swarm inn the air and train it to return to your arm....
Jon,you've obviously been watching the Magners Irish cider advert!.