Queen worries...

[SueBee]

Into my second year of beekeeping and still so much to learn...
Last year's queen disappeared sometime in (probably early) April. No sign of young brood towards the end of April, she must have just died I guess. Anyway, I noticed queen cells and let one hatch. Haven't actually seen the wee devil, assume she is there somewhere, probably hatched 2-3 weeks ago, just when this really rubbish weather started.
Still no sign of eggs or young brood. How long will the virgin stay viable without mating? There are a fair few drones around, when she does get the chance. Its really not been the weather for it here in Argyll.
The girls are getting crabbit, another indication of queenlessness?
Worried that they will die out, have been feeding syrup as most of apple blossom destroyed before they could get to it...
Any advice welcome.:confused:

[Trog]

Exactly the same problem here, only I have more than one colony so can rescue the supersedure colony if her ladyship doesn't get mated. Is there anyone near you who could spare a frame of brood with new eggs should this become necessary? I've known queens here to take up to 6 weeks to get mated and laying, so all is not lost. They've missed the bluebells, apples and raspberries but there's still clover to come if the summer returns. Not expecting much in the way of orchard fruit this year ... what did get pollinated simply blew off in the storm or is getting eaten by deer, who don't normally come into the garden after March ..

[SueBee]

Thanks, good to know that they can take up to 6 weeks, less worried now. If all else fails I might be able to blag a frame of eggs/brood from someone, just need to find his phone number...
Orchard has been a washout this year, my hopes are pinned on late flowering willow in area and lime, the evil willowherb, and a load of Balsam down by the burn. Been surprised that they didn't seem to go for the comfrey (bumbles loved it though). Given up all hope of a honey harvest this year.
On the plus side at least chances of swarming in June are lessened...(??)

[Jon]

Do you not have bramble? The blackberry is one of the main sources of nectar and pollen around here and the first flowers are already open. It flowers right through the summer.

[SueBee]

See, told you I had a lot to learn/observe... lots of bramble in area, just hope it hasn't flowered yet, as it would be battered to bits!

[Trog]

Our bramble's not even thinking of flowering just now. Everything's just stopped. Even the sprouts are wishing they'd not been planted out!

[gavin]

Hi Sue

If you are in Argyll then a Private Message to 'Phil's bees' will put you in touch with the ever-so helpful and friendly secretary of the Oban group. He'll get an email even if he doesn't log on. If you are a bit far to have a frame of eggs delivered he'll know someone near you.

Are your bees polishing cells in a central area? If so there is probably a queen ready and waiting to go for it. If not then you could do with some help. It is likely that someone in your area will have queen cells to spare which would speed the recovery (when introducing queen cells protect all but the tip with aluminium foil).

all the best

Gavin

[SueBee]

Thanks Gavin, have already emailed Phil, but I know he is a bit busier these days. Think we are due some good weather on Tuesday, will check for bees polishing cells - assume this means they will be headfirst in cells doing a bit of cleaning (not waving a duster and a can of Mr Sheen!).
Introducing queen cells sounds scarily complicated, will keep as last resort!

[Trog]

Do give the new girl a chance to get mated before wading in with a queen cell, though. Friday looks good for warm weather. I'll let you know how mine's doing, when I get a look in!

[SueBee]

FINALLY a sunny afternoon! Phil kindly offered a chunk of comb with new laid eggs which I fetched this pm and raced home with it stuffed down my jumper! Have fitted this to a central frame and will just leave them to get on with it until the weekend, either new queen (if she's there) will have mated and started to have an influence on the hive, or they will start a/some new queen cell(s).
Forgotten just how hard it is to see eggs - must invest in a really BIG magnifying glass!

[gavin]

Are you in a Varroa area? If so, and if you have a virgin due to come into lay soon, the bees will raise worker brood from the eggs that you put in. That gives you a great opportunity to knock Varroa back by taking out and destroying the brood once sealed. The mites will be desperate to breed and dive into the first patch of brood to be sealed, and your piece of comb with eggs will give you a readily detached piece a few days ahead of the rest.

If Trog lets you of course. I think she'd only let you do that with drones! One day you may have Mull beekeepers stopping by to learn these tricks ....

[SueBee]

So far varroa-free... touch wood, fingers crossed, etc
But will bear this in mind should situation arise!

[Beejud]

Sue bee just to add to the other comments, don't be too quick to write off the hatched queen. I have had the same situation in previous years and just at the point of despair when you think all is lost the queen starts laying. The books say 2-3 weeks but they don't read the same books as us. So many variables, the weather is causing havoc for all of us this year.

[SueBee]

Just been for an inspection, no sign of any new eggs (even with my new super magnifying glass - Maplins about £4). However, most of the brood on the comb I inserted has been capped, and they are raising queen cells. 2 have larvae in, quite close to new chunk of comb, so I am hopeful.
Will update when I see the first eggs, or even just a queen!

[Jon]

Sue
If they are making queen cells on the comb you have inserted then you almost certainly don't have a queen.
If they use a larva under 24 hours old a queen will hatch in 12 days and could then take another 3 weeks to mate.
The problem is that there may not be many bees left in 5 weeks - although bees not involved in brood rearing do live longer than the oft quoted 6 weeks.

[SueBee]

I'm trying not to panic about them dying off, just hoping for good weather for the next few weeks.

[SueBee]

Had to go away for a while, so not much chance to check on the wee darlin's and how/when queen hatched. Today after a lot of good weather, thought I'd check on how the eggs/brood were coming along. NONE! No sign of egg or brood. I guess the queen cell never came to anything.
I still have 4 frames of bees and they look fairly lively, I think it might be time to give up trying to raise one and introduce another queen - where do I start finding one?
Any advice welcome, as there seem to be many dodgy breeders that you folks won't touch...

[gavin]

Hi Sue

1 day old eggs on 31 May means your new Q cells should have hatched virgins around 15th June. We are now a month passed that so you *might* still have a queen waiting for the right time to lay but probably not. Did you see any sign of a hatched queen cell?

Have the bees made an area of polished cells in the centre with pollen in an area around it? If so, you can still hope that a queen is waiting. If not ...

If you are in Phil's area he is the man that might know who could help. If you are north of Oban you could try Kate Atchley on here too. I'm not aware of any commercial supplier that can guarantee Varroa-free bees or even that breed stock from the Amm types which will dominate your area.

Good luck!

Gavin

[SueBee]

No sign of hatched queen cell, or polished cells. Pollen and honey stores are minimal. I've emailed Phil for advice, but thought I'd throw it out on the forum as well. My bees were originally from sw of inverness, are they still likely to be Amm types? All this breeding stuff boggles my mind!

[gavin]

Not likely to be Amm from there. I heard that they are breeding from Carniolans, unless anyone wants to correct me? They will certainly also have Varroa but so do Phil's and others around Oban.

[gavin]

They may tear down the queen cell(s) after the virgin emerges so there might be no sign now. Often you can see something. However if there are no polished cells then I think that you can assume this one is queenless.

[SueBee]

Odd, but no sign of Varroa and floor scraping test was negative, but I continue to monitor... Mind you, have not checked since I had a lump of comb from Phil.

[Jimbo]

I am not certain if all the Oban area has varroa. I picked up some dead bees from a ferral colony that was living in Lunga house 24 miles south of Oban. According to the owner the colony has been there for a number of years. I am currently checking the wings to see if they are native

[gavin]

Varroa is certainly in the area Jim - Phil has tracked its appearance and progress. There will be colonies in the area without Varroa as it hasn't been around for long. This provisional map:

http://www.sbai.org.uk/varroamapping/

isn't fully accurate but Kate is trying to collect data to update it so that we can encourage folk not to move bees into Varroa-free areas. Whether the sellers of bees in the Highlands will cooperate is another matter. One prominent supplier did not agree with Doris when she suggested a voluntary ban on sending bees to the Orkneys.

[Jimbo]

Hi Gavin, You may be right. I looked at the map and I think Lunga house is on the border of known varroa and suspect varroa. The owner would like the colony removed if anybody is interested. I had a look but it looks difficult as the colony is the the wall/roof of the building. The bees were nice and gentle as they did not bother the wedding guests and were not concerned about the band/dancing/drinking to the wee small hours under their nest although the drummer did get buzzed once during a strip the willow!

[Trog]

Phil's good at removing feral colonies, I believe. Why not PM him?

Gavin, I believe there's a commercial supplier of bees and queens on Colonsay. I trust he doesn't have varroa yet!

[Jimbo]

Hi Trog,

I gave the owner of Lunga House details of how to contact the secretary of the Oban beekeepers to see if they could help him. The supplier on Colonsay is Andrew Abraham who has native stock and no varroa I hope.

[Trog]

Hi Jimbo

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek about Andrew Abrahams, given that the Mull Association has just acquired two nucs from him!! Gavin must just have forgotten to mention him as a commercial supplier of bees!

[gavin]

I was being deliberately a little vague about what I mean by 'in the Highlands' but I'm sure you can guess. Andrew's bees will probably be Varroa-free a lot longer than yours Trog!

[SueBee]

So, these bees at Lunga... it's local, will ask Phil is anyone is going to try and get them, I have a useful husband who is experienced roofer and fits into small spaces, but not experienced much with bees (other than catching a swarm 20ft up a large willow for me!).