Beekeepers from the south ...

[gavin]

Just for those refugees from the BBKA forum (sadly mislaid, for now at least), I thought that I should explain that our beekeeping up here is a little different (but feel free to join in anyway). Ivor C explains ....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXKL3eyf-uw

[Neils]

It's been back for a few hours now, but it's a bit of a trainwreck on the forum at least.

Rest of the site looks quite nice if still lacking in much of any substance.

[gavin]

The forum really should be regarded as a resource built collectively by hundreds of beekeepers over several years. Something that should be treasured for the whole community ... it is a bit early to tell quite what they've done with it but for the moment it seems well and truly locked away.

[Neils]

I think a quick peruse, if your eyes can stand it for that long would probably be enough to gauge my opinion of it so far.

[gavin]

Oh right, I see that things have changed. Their forum is now integrated into the web pages. I see someone is asking about my special topic, but I'm blowed if I can find out how to post. I have a feeling that the free advice I've been giving to BBKA members is about to dry up.

OK, the web site looks prettier. The 'About' page links to 'Local Associations' and for a change explicitly talks about England, which is nice. The clickable map takes you to the main SBA website, but our NI friends might worry that the map for the province takes you to the fringe INIB and not the mainstream Ulster BKA.

[gavin]

... and their new forum can't be searched (!), doesn't have a Private Message system, doesn't tell you anything about the poster, no members list .... what were they thinking of?!

[Neils]

I've had a few PMs from other non members who can't post and/or haven't heard anything either.

There is a PM system, I've been stress testing it tonight!

The rest of the site is better than what was there before but I'm starting to wonder if they might have bigger issues to worry about given the lack of basic validation going on.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png

[Jon]

They have killed the forum. I can't work out how to register as the system does not recognize my e-mail.
As far as I am concerned the forum was far and away the most useful resource on the bbka site and I can't see how they will resuscitate it from here.
Why would anyone replace vBulletin software with that crap.
Vbulletin is the most familiar forum software on the internet.
Roger Patterson must be raging. He put a huge amount of work into that forum and it has been destroyed.
It is also hard to read the pages as the font colour is too similar to the background colour.
It is like something designed by a student rather than a professional.

[Neils]

He wont be the only raging, though I'm past anger and moving into cynical rebellion. I'm going to invoice that web design company for testing their crappy software.

For a day one launch, not one BBKA rep on their showcase site that I've nearly (accidentally) broken already to answer any of the questions people have.

You're not the only non BBKA member not to be able to get on the new forums and I agree with you that they've chucked vBulletin for what seems very much like a 1st year student's Web design excercise: "Design and build a basic forum".

[gavin]

Having loaded the forum database into this new poorly designed one they only have limited time to reverse the process and put the old one back. As the hours and days pass there will be new stuff on the current one .... so the quicker they see sense and do a U-turn (ugghh .. a flashback to PM Thatcher there .. 'You turn if you want to ..') the better. But are they capable of seeing what they've done? Roger is, but do any of his colleagues listen?

I had expected that they would enhance their forum, not seriously damage it. vBulletin 4 perhaps, given that vB3 is now outdated.

[Neils]

Well, they've done what I feared they would do to be honest. Maybe the BBKA's utter balls up can be to SBAi's gain?

I think UK beekeeping needs a mature forum with sensible advice from named people (he says hiding behind a pseudonym) where people can come for mature beekeeping discussion. I dare say that will be taken by some as a dig at the beekeeping forum, but it's not actually meant to be. I make no secret there what I think about some of the decisions made so don't feel that I'm speaking out of turn. I actually like the place most of the time, but I'd never go there for advice and I really do think that's where the BBKA just shot themselves in the foot.

[Neils]

. As the hours and days pass there will be new stuff on the current one ....
ten thousand posts asking how do I search and screaming "MY EYES!!!!!!11!!!1!one!!" possibly wont be missed.

[Jon]

Well, they've done what I feared they would do to be honest.

And the bbka has history re. not listening so don't hold your breath for a climbdown re the utter bollox of this.

[Rosie]

I can't get into the new forum at all so I don't know what you're all talking about:rolleyes:

I have emailed Roger to see why I can't get in. Thankfully there is a good forum here but there is another that has become more popular than any other and the stuff they post on it is often utter rubbish.

I fear BBKA have given up the battle to keep beekeepers and public well informed.

Rosie

[kevboab]

I have sent two emails now requesting a non member login and yet to receive a reply. Forum unavailable through tapatalk so wont be using on my phone when bored now either. Always was an interesting read as are all the other forums and an invaluable tool for beginners who have yet to experience problems that beekeeping can bring. Very disappointed.

[drumgerry]

Looks to me the new BBKA website has been built in Wordpress (the paid version). I should know having built my own association's site using the same software in the last few weeks http://www.moraybeekeepers.co.uk/. Looks like they've gone for a bells and whistles theme but I don't see why they can't have a normal forum to go with it. Their new one is horrendous.

[Neils]

Well the PMs, emails and texts from people trying to figure out even how to get onto the new site let alone work out the forum continue. And still not one post on the BBKA from anyone connected with it.

They've really shot themselves in the foot on this one.

[Jon]

They've really shot themselves in the foot on this one.

And Steve T accused you of being melodramatic for asking a few questions about the format of the new forum last weekend.
I have also E-mailed Roger Patterson a couple of times about a login and heard nothing.
The person responsible for this debacle deserves to take a lot of flak as none of the forum users were consulted at all.
We were all derided for asking valid questions about the new forum. It's funny how the apologists seem to have disappeared when the woeful result is there for all to see. The general website is very difficult to read due to the ridiculous font colour chosen.

[drumgerry]

Not trying to defend them in any way but in the general website the font colour looks like black on a white background to me and not so difficult to read. The forum however is a different matter.

[Neils]

The rest of the site I have no real problem with at all even if I still can't find the section where non members were supposed to he able to ask questions. It was sorely in need of a facelift and the new design actually works quite well. The forum however...

Whoever signed that off as fit for release needs a good slap, but what do us plebs know?

[Jon]

Try reading that.

http://www.bbka.org.uk/forum/search.php?searchid=50603&photoplog_searchinfo=1

It looks like beige on lighter beige on my laptop.

[drumgerry]

Jon I confess in the 15 or so years I've been using the web I've never used a "sitemap". I agreee that particular font colour is not the easiest on the eye. But I'd suggest that most people are accessing the various pages from the drop down menus instead. The website imho seems a laudable attempt to modernise. But the forum set up is a huge error in judgement I think and wouldn't be one I would choose to visit

[Neils]

Goes to a dead link for me. Having worked for a popular fruit named company I've tried to implement a similar colour scheme before. It looks nice on a poster but orange on White is really hard on the eyes when you're staring at a computer screen for any Length of time.

[Jon]

It goes without saying that the forum is a disaster. In spite of all the promises I have not been given a login yet.
Surely picking a text font colour which stands out clearly against the background is very basic stuff.
Heaven help anyone with a visual impairment.

[Neils]

I've got one now from spending hours on it last night trying to help people out.

[Rosie]

Nellie, now that you can get into the forum can you please check whether the private mails history still exists. I have some contacts on there and and I have no other way of tracing them.

Rosie

[Rosie]

I have managed to find the messages but still can't log in. I did not notice any recent messages from non BBKA members so presumably none of us can get in. It's dreadful at the moment and I fear that it's so bad that the facilities that we are used to on other sites and the old BBKA one will never be available.

I see no attempt has been made to allow non-members of the forum to post and it even says that you have to sign up before posting. I am sure I remember being reassured that non-beekeepers can still ask questions without signing up.

Rosie

[Neils]

So how did you find your old PMs? I exported most of them but not seen the other ones since.

I've still not found the non-beekeeper/forum ask a question bit, I was going to try it out, see who answers, how long it takes and whether there's anything more proactive than the rest of the site that asks you to come back soon and see if anything's changed.

[Rosie]

I haven't found my PMs Nellie as I can't even sign in. I meant to say that I had found the forums. I had been assuming that I needed to sign in first but they are visible to anyone who looks under "membership". I wonder why they think non-members will look under membership for forum advice. It's obviously just for BBKA members plus a few others who happen to be in the know.

Steve

[Neils]

Well I think I'm done complaining about it. Give it a couple of years and they might have forum software equivalent to what vbulletin et al were offering a mere decade ago. As a paid up BBKA member and forum regular I think it's probably not much of a surprise if I suggest that I'm a little put out by the new forum offering.

I think I'm going to put my energies into here instead.

[Jon]

Me too, as I can't log in to the other one and my requests for an explanation are being ignored.