Hive Records

[EmsE]

I'm ashamed to say that last year my hive records left a lot to be desired, just like the year before. So could it be that the way I've been doing it isn't right for me (bad workman & all that :o). The way I've been working is with a piece of paper that I'm supposed to write down my observations and then transfer the info onto the computer and that just ain't happening- the paper is more likely to end up in the smoker than in the house for typing up.

I've decided that a spreadsheet where I just need to fill in particular columns and a column to note misc. stuff might work better for me & if it's kept in a plastic folder, it's less likely to get lost or incinerated. Looking around at different spreadsheets on the internet they really are quite varied. What columns would / does everyone have on theirs?

I know I really need to pull my socks up with this and I know I should have already got everything set up already- I just hate paperwork!

[HensandBees]

Mine is on an excel spreadsheet with the colomns as below and I print one out as needed . one for each colony and stick it in a ring binder .... computer write up is a brill idea but ........... also in the ring binder is a disease crib sheet so I can look at the symptons and work backwards to end up with the correct disease .... well thats the theory anyway.... and a little chart that shows what age a larvae is so I can judge how old it is! Easier to carry the ring binder than the computer into the apiary
sorry not very computer literate so could see how to put the excel spreadsheet on

Colony Queen
Date Queen /QC Stores Brood Disease Feed Room Notes

[Trog]

I carry a tiny notebook, spiral bound, in my bee jacket pocket. It has a pencil with a clip on it, stuck inside the spiral bit. With a maximum of 8 colonies, I find it's easy enough to go back through this to see what's been going on with each colony. One of these days I might put it on a computerised thingy but my fishing log never reached its database last year (having been filled in faithfully in past years) so I'm not sure I'll ever get round to computerising the bees!

[Jon]

I use this one which is recommended by Roger Patterson.

http://www.wgbka.org.uk/WGBKAdocs/Record%20Sheet.pdf

I keep the sheet under the lid of each colony inside a plastic cover sheet.
If you print both sides it will easily cover every hive intervention over 12 months.

I have used these for 3 years and have found them to be more than adequate.

I really should get all the data onto a computer, especially data relating to queen rearing, but in practice the most important location for the data is in the apiary itself.

[Neils]

Must admit the database app I started a little while back kind of floundered and in hindsight wanted far too much data for a general inspection record. But as it's able to trace queen heritage I really should dig it back up out of moth balls and give it another go.

I cribbed my current paper based system off the tick sheets used by the bee inspectors. I now simply record

Date
Colony
Sides of bees
Sides of brood
Queen seen
Comments

Be quite happy to knock up a sample Excel sheet with a simple summary page in addition to colony inspection records if people would find it useful.

Do think that however you record information while inspecting that unless you rig up a voice recorder that you can hold all the pertinent information in your head. At point I was inspecting a frame, putting it back then filling out a huge great tick sheet of all the information before moving to the next frame and it was taking ages!

[GRIZZLY]

I like your record sheet Jon,but,am currently using some that I got from BIBBA about 30 years ago - very complicated and covers everything in minute detail.I only use a few of the columns available but the extra info is there if I need to go into finer detail.I was given mine by Beowulf Cooper at one of our Ass'n meeting down in Warwickshire when he came to talk about Q rearing.I believe the current BIBBA record sheet is more simplified.

[Mellifera Crofter]

An experienced beekeeper told me to keep the records with the queen, not the hive. So in Jon's example, it would have been headed with the queen's name and year of birth, and the sheet would follow her around. This way we can keep track of the queen/daughter lineage and characteristics. (But, like EmsE, I have to find a good way of keeping the records.)

Kitta

[Jon]

An experienced beekeeper told me to keep the records with the queen, not the hive. So in Jon's example, it would have been headed with the queen's name and year of birth, and the sheet would follow her around. This way we can keep track of the queen/daughter lineage and characteristics. (But, like EmsE, I have to find a good way of keeping the records.)

Kitta

That's the way I do it. The record sheet always follows the queen. When I artifically swarm a colony or create a nuc with the old queen, the record sheet follows it.

[GRIZZLY]

That's the way I do it. The record sheet always follows the queen. When I artifically swarm a colony or create a nuc with the old queen, the record sheet follows it.
Ditto here,Ikeep 1 record card on top of the crown board(in a poly bag) and 1 other is kept in a spirol binder for home reference later.1 card per queen per hive.

[POPZ]

[QUOTE=Nellie;4123]Must admit the database app I started a little while back kind of floundered and in hindsight wanted far too much data for a general inspection record. But as it's able to trace queen heritage I really should dig it back up out of moth balls and give it another go.[QUOTE]

Yea Nellie, you were getting on so well with that database you were writing and I was wondering what had happened to it?? Maybe getting a bit too in depth? Something simple stupid would be my requirement and folk who wanted more advanced such as breeding lines etc is something different.

I use voice recorder but unfortunately the ladies are rather fond of the microphone area so I have great recordings of many high pitched buzzes - especially angry ones!!

[Trog]

They are simply adding their own comments to yours, Popz. Babelfish would be handy for translation, perhaps, then you'd know what they're saying about you. [fair enough: you're commenting on them, why shouldn't they comment on you?] ;)

[Jon]

Eric will be along in a minute to tell us how we are all wrong as he has 40 years experience using the correct size and texture of record sheet with a special column for recording pepperpot brood and inbreeding, as discussed in the prestigious journal Die Hybrid-Bienen von Glasgow (also adapted for the Scottish Beekeeper Magazine circa 1973.:)

[Calum]

Hi
Jon I'll try and pipp Eric to the post on the correct way to do it.
It really is a comparison of the colony performance (what Mellifera Crofter put so well already) so additionally to all of the stuff mentioned already
a measure of how friendly they are
a measure of their tendancy to swarm
honey harvested
and whatever else is important to you when you are doing queen selection (cleaning tenacity if you can be bothered with the 100 pin test)
There is a great list I could post if anyone is interested from the german queen breeders association, I also have a weighting matrix spread sheet somewhere so that queens in the same site can be compaired and the best selected for breeding.

[Jon]

Beowulf Cooper's old bibba record sheet which Grizzly mentioned is an elaborate piece of paper. It was reproduced in one of the bibba quarterly magazines last year.
I record temperament on a 1-10 scale every time I open a colony. If they are not scoring 1 or 2 every time I make a note to replace the queen when possible and I certainly would not ever use a queen heading a feisty colony for breeding.
Roger Patterson always says that breeding calmer bees is one of the things anyone can do quite quickly as long as you are ruthless about culling and you don't start mucking about with hybrids between different races.

[EmsE]

What's the 100 pin test?

[Jon]

It's a test where you kill 100 larvae by inserting a pin through the wax capping of each cell before checking 24 hours later to see how many of the dead larvae have been removed. It is a measure of hygienic behaviour in a colony.
You can also do it with liquid nitrogen applied to an enclosed area of 100 cells.

[Calum]

What's the 100 pin test?
take a frame of freshly closed brood place a precut mask (http://www.lwg.bayern.de/bienen/info/haltung/28731/linkurl_4.pdf) on the frame that leaves a diamond containing 100 cells.
http://www.toleranzzucht.de/typo3temp/pics/ddb2f4624c.jpg
pearce the 100 cells and return the frame to the hive.
After 24 hours count the number of cells the bees have cleaned out.

Bees that are better at cleaning are better at keeping foulbrood free and apparently are better at recognising brood that has varroa and removing it.

[EmsE]

Hmm.....I think I'll give that one a miss.

[Neils]

Yea Nellie, you were getting on so well with that database you were writing and I was wondering what had happened to it?? Maybe getting a bit too in depth? Something simple stupid would be my requirement and folk who wanted more advanced such as breeding lines etc is something different.

I use voice recorder but unfortunately the ladies are rather fond of the microphone area so I have great recordings of many high pitched buzzes - especially angry ones!!

I think it suffered from design by committee in some respects and posting updates in public and watching a lot of what was described in it turn up in what's now commercial software took the wind out of my sails a little I fully admit. It might just be great minds thinking alike but hey ho.

The inspection side of it did get too complicated and with another year's experience I think I much favour a system that can be held in the head of the beekeeper during the inspection with the sheet completed afterwards.

The queen side of it I actually quite like and strikes the right balance so I might have another go at when I get some spare time (the other killer over the last year).

[Calum]

Nellie your databank was a great I was really looking forward to the next release.
I look forward to it becoming a really great tool for novices and breeders alike.

not sure how statistically evaluating the data would be achieved but I have no idea about databases.

[Neils]

it also has/had the key advantage of keeping your data on your own computer. I'll try and have a look at it and see what I can do with it.

I didn't do much in the way of analysis with it simply because I never had any quantity of data to do any analysis with :)

[kevboab]

If you have a smartphone, why not give Beetight a bash for record keeping. I've found it a huge benefit as I can study hive records anywhere anytime and it comes into its own when discussing any problems at association apiary meetings as information is available to hand instantly. No more lost paperwork.

[Neils]

My only concern with Online systems like that is the amount of data they necessarily collect about me/my activities, hence looking to produce something similar that keeps people's information on their own computers.

[Kate Atchley]

Used to think I'd recall enough without jotting it down ... hopeless! I have an Excel file from which I print cards. Carry these in a wee folder in my bee box as I often want to study them back home as well as beside the bees. I've attached (if I can figure that out) a pdf version in case you're interested: 585

Kate

[Calum]

nice file Kate, the only thing I'd add is the weight of honey harvested / spring summer autumn and varroa fall count.

[EmsE]

Hi Kate,

Looks good to me & not too fussy so I'm less likely to 'forget' to complete it.

[Kate Atchley]

nice file Kate, the only thing I'd add is the weight of honey harvested / spring summer autumn and varroa fall count.

Thanks Calum. Yes, I make a note of the honey harvest from the colony, but we are amongst the lucky ones ... no Varroa so far. And I note that when I do regular checks!

I've only kept Varroa-free bees for 18 months (after 14 years with the mite-infested bees) and amazed to see how effective they are. They are very well acclimatised too, having evolved from stocks in the area mixed over many years. The beekeepers here don't seem to have "winter losses" in their vocabulary. Wonder how long we can enjoy this.

[Calum]

Hi Kate,
no varroa lucky you! The estimated winter losses for Germany are 200000 but that figure is likely to go up if the numbers of colonies for sale are anything to go by (60% fewer and the prices here are up 25 pounds already on last year).
I managed to get all mine through without a loss, but my methods are not what everyone could implement.
I take it you moved up north from down south then?

[Kate Atchley]

Hi Calum
I'm a Scot but I first kept bees in London, then in Edinburgh, and now in wilds of the west highlands ... beautiful! Look out for the Scottish Varroa Mapping project to be run this Summer, through Scottish Beekeepers Association. One of Scotland's best kept secrets ... the large tracts of Varroa-free bees and beekeeping. Want to put that on public record to support voluntary non-movement of bees into these areas ... a very tenuous connection with "Hive records"!

[justal]

I’m a newbie beekeeper, but also someone who likes to keep detailed records of everything. To that end, I’ve created a hive record card based on the BBKA card that I use as an overview of each hive, but also a much more detailed ‘inspection sheet’. The latter even has a brood box configuration chart that allows me to quickly and easily tick what we see on each individual frame within the brood box.

I realise that this is overkill but it does allow us to see how a colony develops over time which may not be necessary but is very interesting. I’ve written a blog post about hive records where you can download these sheets and use them if you wish – Beekeeping – Hive Records (http://www.alananna.co.uk/blog/2011/beekeeping-hive-records/). I hope they prove useful to someone. The blog post also reviews a couple of online Hive Record apps.

Al.

[Kate Atchley]

Elegantly thought through and arranged Al. Thanks for sharing. For me a bit too detailed but thankfully we're all different, as are the bees!
Kate

[gavin]

That's a lovely blog Al, thanks. I'll be back for a better look when I've time.

[Neils]

Al. Nice post. Only thing I'd suggest with regards to your detailed record sheet is that you want to be able to hold all the information in your head. Once you're at the point of lifting a frame, looking at it, putting it back, putting the smoker down, putting your hive tool away, looking for the pen that's rolled off the hive roof next door and then filling out the sheet is that you find that a 5 minute inspection suddenly turns into an hour while you record information that, fundamentally, doesn't tell you a great deal and all the while the hive is open and getting more and more annoyed about it.

I did something similar last year on the basis that the more detail the better, right? In the end I found I was taking longer to do the reports than I was looking at bees and that fundamentally staring at a sheet of foundation didn't actually tell me anything useful.

Give it a go by all means, but be prepared to amend and perhaps be a little smarter about how your data collection works. My system calculates unused frames automatically, I enter stores and brood, everything else must be unused. Do I care if it's foundation or comb? Not really. Likewise knowing in great detail how much brood was eggs or larvae or sealed didn't actually tell me much of great use compared to a box marked BAS (brood in all stages).

Not trying to put you off or be overly critical, just seeing something very familiar in what you're trying to do. :)

[EmsE]

One thing about starting off recording 'everything' is that you'll find out what parts you find useful & those that don't and then can adapt to your own style.

[Trog]

As I mentioned upthread, my method of record-keeping is a tiny notebook which is in my bee jacket with the pencil inside the spiral binding where it can't get lost. I write up the notes once I've done a colony and put its roof back and before going on to the next one. I'm going to be trying to use proper record cards soon and it will be interesting to see if more structured data recording improves my beekeeping. Still space for comments like, 'queen seen - gorgeous!', though :)

[justal]

Thanks for the feedback on my (too detailed) hive record cards. Luckily my wife and 6 year old some are embarking on the beekeeping adventure with me so there's always someone about to make notes whilst someone else actually manipulates the frames etc. We won't record 'everything' on every inspection but we'll find out which things are importnat and useful to us and record those all of the time and then make more thorough notes on some occasions.

Glad you all like the blog by the way. ;)

Al.

[Neils]

An extra pair of hands or two always comes in handy :)

I think most people like to record different things, look at the vast array of different record cards that are out there already. I didn't mean to sound as dismissive about it as I perhaps did, I whittled my inspection records down from a veritable novel to begin with and settled on a system that works for me so good luck with working out yours :)