todays news

[drumgerry]

Now there's a thought. I could cover myself in alpaca/llama dung, get the OH to paint me with some nice colours, hang myself from the rafters and invite Julia Bradbury round in order to give her a swift kick in the chops.

Or...in the words of Chewing the Fat have we "taken that too far"?

[The Drone Ranger]

20 that turn into 10 SQCs that turn into 8 mated queens if I'm lucky DR! Still very much got my L plates on with this stuff. Plan as last year is to take my biggest hybridest colony and split it down into nucs using the queens I produce - a la Mike Palmer. Had mixed results with it after our endless winterspring but still got hopes that this is the best way to up my numbers.

And my cell raiser is set up BB QEx s s BB. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it GCHQ!

Some years back I had about 35 hives of which half had been made using a single mother queen and mini nucs she was the best behaved, and a good layer, honey gatherer
The following year nearly all the hives with her daughters rattled with chalkbrood and were pretty useless
I put away the little mating nucs and went back to the snelgrove boards where each hive produces a new queen except the wild ones who get a new queen
This year I have done a few (4 so far) in a queen raising colony and I might do a few more from different mother colonies
The chaps who are good at this may wait and use a second or third year mother queen I guess ?

If you are an L Plate driver Drumgerry I'm a drunk driver in the queen raising stakes :)

[Jon]

Nah, you can never take it too far.

The alpaca dung hive hanging in its own pergola could be a better earner than the fleeces.
Cow dung hives are so passé.

[gavin]

We probably have. You were thinking of a nice pebbledash effect? Too far, definitely too far.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD89wjUQZCw&feature=share&list=PL9XI2Sl8k-9Nk5r7w0CGDSOFAXv51UlAe

[lindsay s]

I managed to get 9 colonies of bees through the Winter and into Spring.
1st April I lifted the crown boards and counted the seams of bees, it was too cold for a proper inspection. All colonies fed candy.
Mid April I cleaned all the floors and checked for stores, still too cold for inspecting.
8th May at last I managed to carry out a full inspection and none of the colonies had more than 4 bars of brood. Two over wintered nucs only had a small patch of brood.
Mid May I bumped off an old queen and united the colony with a nuc. Another colony was riddled with chalk brood so I bumped off their queen and united the bees with a nuc. I now have 7 colonies.
Since mid-May I’ve been carrying out weekly inspections weather permitting . Yesterday morning it was dull with a nip in the wind and only 11 ⁰c but the apiary visit had to be carried out (we all know that if you leave it to long the bees will be off as soon as the sun comes out). My bees were certainly in the mood for stinging which doesn’t help now that I’m allergic to them. Luckily I dress for maximum protection and carry an EpiPen, my partner also comes with me for added insurance.
At the moment I have 2 strong colonies(hybrids D R), 3 that are OK and 2 that are weak(amm). 5 have a super on but only one is starting to make queen cells. There’s a lot more pollen in the hives ( compared to last year )and we’ve just had a short spell of good weather when the dandelions were out in full bloom. The wild white clover is just starting to flower and that’s my main crop. Ideally I like to split a few hives and get a few supers of honey this year but now our Summers over maybe I’m being too optimistic.:(

[drumgerry]

At last someone sensible has come along DR!

L plates because this is my third year of systematic queen raising and I only started to get things right last year (thanks to lots of great advice from you lot on the forum). I am a bit concerned about inbreeding depression as my intended breeder queen didn't make it through the winter and I've used the same breeder queen as last year. But it'll be the last batch I graft from her I think. I do the Harden queenright cell raiser/grafting/apidea method because I enjoy the process. I like the fact that as my colony numbers (hopefully) increase I'll be able to scale up queen production using the same method.

[The Drone Ranger]

Painted paper Mache hives ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaLmdRBvGG4
Here's a recipe for the mache
surely better than cowdung?

I liked how the crazy lady lured Julia Bradbury into the danger area then nearly got her blinded all while making light of the situation

[drumgerry]

Nah, you can never take it too far.

The alpaca dung hive hanging in its own pergola could be a better earner than the fleeces.
Cow dung hives are so passé.


Well we get it by the trailer-load Jon. So I could be a very rich man in a very short period of time!

[The Drone Ranger]

I managed to get 9 colonies of bees through the Winter and into Spring.
Ideally I like to split a few hives and get a few supers of honey this year but now our Summers over maybe I’m being too optimistic.:(

Hi Lindsay
I'm guessing its a shorter cold summer and that's hard the further North you go
Folk get bored hearing this but if you use a Snelgrove board or similar the old queen has all the flyers so you still have a chance of honey
The top box gets a new young queen with luck and you have a double queen hive for a while
In good years you can separate the boxes and have doubled your hives
If it's not going well you can put the box with the young queen on the bottom remove the old girl and combine the bees
It's not cast iron guaranteed but I think its safer than making a standard split plus you can still get a crop of honey
You get stung less because you don't have to poke around in there so much :)

[brothermoo]

Last night we were getting our eye in at grafting

I found the Chinese tool real handy though others clicked with the paintbrush. Good wee night dipping the toe into queen rearing!

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[Adam]

I have a chinese tool and don't like it and prefer a small paint brush.

[Adam]

Lindsay,
I blame most of my chalkbrood this year on a poor spring when the pollen was all used up and brood-rearing pretty well stopped for a while. CB is much better now but there's one hive that still has a little. (None last year with the same queen).
Is it worth putting small colonies in highly insulated boxes?

[gavin]

Last night we were getting our eye in at grafting

I found the Chinese tool real handy though others clicked with the paintbrush. Good wee night dipping the toe into queen rearing!



I've never tried a toe - does that work too?!

[drumgerry]

Left handed Swiss tool and headtorch is my combo of choice for grafting.

PS Gavin - you'll be relieved to know that a swarm has not taken up residence on my face today!

[fatshark]

20 that turn into 10 SQCs that turn into 8 mated queens if I'm lucky DR! Still very much got my L plates on with this stuff. Plan as last year is to take my biggest hybridest colony and split it down into nucs using the queens I produce - a la Mike Palmer. Had mixed results with it after our endless winterspring but still got hopes that this is the best way to up my numbers.

And my cell raiser is set up BB QEx s s BB. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it GCHQ!

I'm beginning to regret the code ... but to get back on topic (of making increase, not the Drumgerry-modified bait hive) a useful route might be to overwinter mated queens in mini-nucs and press them into service with early(ish) nucs split from your strongest overwintered hives. I did this this season and these generally did better than the bog standard overwintered nucs. The strong hives build up well in early spring - certainly better this year than nucs - and you can split a nuc off well before queen rearing can be started.

All this is climate dependent of course. I'm intending to scale up my overwintered queens in mini-nucs this season and have a cunning plan ... (or daft idea, depending whether it works or not).

[The Drone Ranger]

I'm beginning to regret the code ... but to get back on topic (of making increase, not the Drumgerry-modified bait hive) a useful route might be to overwinter mated queens in mini-nucs and press them into service with early(ish) nucs split from your strongest overwintered hives. I did this this season and these generally did better than the bog standard overwintered nucs. The strong hives build up well in early spring - certainly better this year than nucs - and you can split a nuc off well before queen rearing can be started.

All this is climate dependent of course. I'm intending to scale up my overwintered queens in mini-nucs this season and have a cunning plan ... (or daft idea, depending whether it works or not).

Hi Fatshark
What is the best way to do this do you need to take out the feeder and add combs or double up ?
They seem so small but they are well insulated

[fatshark]

Good evening DR,
Jon is probably the oracle, or others on here as well. I've done it for the last 2-3 winters in double height Kielers. I'm not a great fan of the internal feeder as it only fits in the bottom floor and the bees are often up top. This year I built little frame feeders with a ply back and a QE front. They worked fantastically well (though I say so myself). I'll dig out a photo, but imagine a TBH frame feeder design built with common sense, lots of glue and some pretty crappy workmanship.

In mild winters I suspect this and a little TLC in placing them in a sheltered spot is probably enough.

This winter I lost one through freezing solid on a double digit frost. My cunning plan (above) was to shift them into the greenhouse. Initially I did this every night, lifting them gently on a sheet of wood. The novelty wore off in less than a week. I then took out a pane of glass from the greenhouse (it's wood and easily, er, butchered ... I mean the greenhouse is wood!) and replaced it with a sheet of ply with holes bored through for some 1.5" drainpipe. I then rigged this, sloping up slightly to fit into a vertical flat piece of ply that covered the entire entrance of the Kieler. This worked beautifully. Once the weather warmed the bees used the tunnel to fly out. They stayed like this until April/May when (after using the queens i wanted) I built a massive three story Kieler* and eventually moved them into a full nuc. I've just finished a Bailey change on is - from the Kieler frames to nationals.

The greenhouse is kept at just above freezing. I keep agaves and other succulents in there. There's a single 100W heater on a temperature plug.

This approach was so successful that I'm building a racking system to take up to a dozen Kielers for next winter.

Finally, individual hot days in late March were no problem. The bees took cleansing flights and were untroubled that the greenhouse was in the high teens/low twenties. The bees only fly when it's warm enough outside. Pics when I have time to get them off the computer ... I'm off to collect my QC's to go into Kielers tonight :)

* which I dropped and totally wrecked, rebuilt the entire thing and saved the Q, which is another story altogether!

[drumgerry]

Fatshark - sounds brilliant mate! We're planning to put a summerhouse in this year which is going to double as a grafting station and II lab (just about to buy some Schley kit and in the coming years make it my "big thing"). It'd be easy to rig up some mininuc towers with access via tube from inside it. Just wondering if your 100W heater is expensive to run. And whether you could post a link to the sort of heater.

Just the thought of having ready to go queens in March and April makes me go all weak at the knees!

[The Drone Ranger]

Fatshark
I take my hat off to you for ingenuity and determination

BEE I Y SOS

move over Nick Knowles

I grow pelargoniums -- greenhouse temp 10C through endless winter --- electric bill shocking

[Jon]

A system to overwinter queens in mini nucs is the holy grail of uk beebreeding as we would have queens available in April to compete with the imports.
last winter I started with about 15 apideas in September and the last ones succumbed in January.
Mind you my nucs did not do much better.
I would like to think last winter was a bit of an outlier as I have never had such problems before.
The previous winter I managed to get 4/4 apideas through.
It should be possible with decent autumn nutrition and a double apidea.
Pete Little/hivemaker has a system putting 4 mini nucs on top of a colony which provides a little heat.
I am still tinkering around to find out what will work.
I do a final batch of grafting in late August and those queens are the ones which stay in the apideas over winter.

[fatshark]

B*gger ... reloaded the page and lost my carefully grafted words!

100W should cost about 36p/day if on 100%. It won't be if you use a £15 temperature plug set (and checked) for about 3C and insulate your greenhouse well. Alternatively, I make a 'tent' around my mini-nucs and agaves from bubble wrap and stick the heater on the floor underneath the slatted shelving.

Search amazon for Dimplex Sunhouse heaters 100W. There are a few. This isn't what I've got (which I inherited from my mother and would fail every safety test known to man) but the principle is the same. A greenhouse specialist like Two Wests and Elliott might have expensive alternatives.

I like the system Pete L uses except for the potential disruption checking the colony underneath - I've not tried it, so will leave it for others to comment whether this is an issue. His woodworking skills are way beyond mine anyway. If I tried to make the sort of boss he does, with the power tools he uses, I'd have no fingers left to graft with.

Make sure any entrance tube slopes up ... the wind whistles across the entrance and the rain can be driven quite a way up the tube. A centimetre over a foot or so seems sufficient. Oops, mixed measurements.

I've only done the greenhouse thing this winter, so YMMV. Don't blame me!

And I have absolutely no idea what the code DR used means :confused:

[The Drone Ranger]

And I have absolutely no idea what the code DR used means :confused:

Haven't you seen DIY SOS on telly
This was Bee. I.Y. SOS sorry got to go GCHQ have sent the"lads" round for a "chat"

[drumgerry]

Superb info Fatshark - many thanks! I won't hold you responsible if I make a mess of it.

[gavin]

PS Gavin - you'll be relieved to know that a swarm has not taken up residence on my face today!

Pity. I had one on my head today, at least part of it. Can't see how it could possibly have been mine (the bees, the head was mine) as those able to fly with a decent number of bees all have wings partially amputated. It took three attempts to knock it into a Paynes box - the first two attempts got the majority of the bees but they drifted back to the rather inaccessible branch. I wondered if the queen was flying back there from the mass knocked off, and whether the rain coming on encouraged her to drop into the box the last time.

[The Drone Ranger]

I usually try and cut off the branch they are on (if I can)
It smells of queen and the idiot bees keep going back
Cart them down on the branch and with a stout whack get them in the hive box
and once they are bunged in a box just stick the branch at the front of the hive
It's not easy ,but its sometimes not as hard as hanging off a ladder wagging a branch above a cardboard box
Not worth getting killed for though

[Trog]

So if the next swarm lands on Gavin's head, he should cut it off and place it next to/under a box? Hmmmm ... could be interesting to watch ;)

[The Drone Ranger]

I cut quite a big branch off a tree one year but as it snapped a bit unexpectedly the whole swarm came down on my wife's head
She was guarding the box and holding the bottom of the ladder luckily she had a bee jacket on but still was a bit miffed
I have to do it on my own now

[gavin]

There was a bee excitedly exploring the kitchen not 5 mins ago so I went to see my partner's bait hive along the road. One bee there too. How to make it a des res? I know - lemon grass oil is in the car. OK, a couple of drops and it all smells sweet, but one flipped off the dropper and hit my finger. Instant reaction and I wiped it on my jeans. The bum area. Why did I do that?!! Window definitely closed tonight ...

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[drumgerry]

Ha! See - it's not just me who's a clutz with the lemongrass then!

I can imagine the confusion of the scout bees with all the conflicting aromas wafting from that area!

[The Drone Ranger]

T OK, a couple of drops and it all smells sweet, but one flipped off the dropper and hit my finger. Instant reaction and I wiped it on my jeans. The bum area. Why did I do that?!! Window definitely closed tonight ...

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Jeans ???
I had pictured plus fours

[drumgerry]

...or maybe blue velvet breeches with little lace cuffs at the calves.

[Jon]

...or maybe blue velvet breeches with little lace cuffs at the calves.

De rigueur in Dundee I hear. Apparently 50% of the population wears a monocle and every other shop sells jodhpurs.

[gavin]

What are you guys on?! The scruffiest blue denims money can buy (a couple of years ago), for work and play. Must admit I did buy a rather fetching bow tie for this Saturday's bee do. The ESBA is a hundred yrs old.

Currently in the association shed and chuckling whilst making up frames. We do have colonies in heat, as it were, but thankfully the evening is cool and there are none exploring my scented areas.

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[Jon]

Currently in the association shed and chuckling

More likely he's in the Garrick Club quaffing a fine Port with his old Etonian chums.

[fatshark]

What are you guys on?! The scruffiest blue denims money can buy (a couple of years ago), for work and play.

Yeah, yeah ... I can assure readers that Jon is entirely correct. I lived in Dundee in the early 80's and spent many a happy hour in Monocles'R'Us in Dens Road and that quaint little riding outfitters next to Tannadice.

Tally Ho!

[The Drone Ranger]

I thought all professors of something or other wore smoking jackets ,plus fours and tartan silk waistcoats
Now I find bow ties are part of the outfit
perfume is lemon grass
A beekeeping Bo Brummel I had imagined
Sadly down on his luck he now spends most of his time in a shed

[drumgerry]

Nicky Fairbairn reborn!

[Jon]

Obama has the shed bugged and this was the conversation relayed to him via GCHQ (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0c1_1259401725#c4S8ecvaCPBfBMur.01)

[Trog]

Bees in the news again today: heavy losses in England over winter http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22861651. Seems to me that any type of bee does OK in good conditions but only the tough local native/native-cross types survive a bad year. Why is it that these surveys neglect to ask what type of bee folk are keeping and in what sort of hive? That would be useful data.

[The Drone Ranger]

Nicky Fairbairn reborn!

I wondered who that chap on the front page of the ESBA newsletter was

[gavin]

Now you can see how wrong Drumgerry was!

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[The Drone Ranger]

Bees in the news again today: heavy losses in England over winter http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22861651. Seems to me that any type of bee does OK in good conditions but only the tough local native/native-cross types survive a bad year. Why is it that these surveys neglect to ask what type of bee folk are keeping and in what sort of hive? That would be useful data.

Partly its because folk including me don't make enough adjustments to their bee management during the year to take account of conditions.
Sadly folk with newly purchased bees make even more bad decisions (mostly by following the crowd)
A lot of the imports come from very hostile climates so its not their fitness I worry about just moving disease around country to country
Once you get to know your bees you have a feel for what they are up to or need in an average season (last year wasn't one of them)
But there is no doubt that if your bees are local, and you do follow what everyone else locally does you, either all get it right or all get it wrong together

[The Drone Ranger]

Now you can see how wrong Drumgerry was!

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Aha you are awake
How many frames did you get done ?

[gavin]

Two boxes worth. In between forum-peeking, chuckling and admiring the self-sown orchid in one of our hostess' decorative raised borders. Who needs a wild flower meadow when the flora comes to you.

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[The Drone Ranger]

Not bad going Gavin, your swarms will pull them out for you

[gavin]

Only splits at the association apiary, so far anyway. The three best queens have already made Q cells and are in their own nucs, and the rest of these three colonies either split into several Paynes nucs or sitting with Q cells awaiting splitting. Two other colonies there, one moved up today into a Swienty and the other not ready yet. Samples of all 5 in the freezer for Jon.

The swarms were at my own apiary. Checked them out today and the remaining queens are where they should be - so I think I lost 2 swarms and in return have 2 casts from somewhere else (with some yellow bees), busy drawing out comb.

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[The Drone Ranger]

Sorry Gavin had the wrong end of the stick
Ron Brown reckoned if you could keep the syrup feeding just right swarms will go on drawing wax until the flow stops when you forget to top up

[gavin]

You reckon I should have syrup on?! Was letting nature take its course .... and they are filling frames and drawing comb, for now anyway. Mostly OSR but there is other stuff coming in too, darker, maybe a spot of hawthorn. I have rather too many bees at the minute and would struggle to keep up if they all demand more foundation!

[The Drone Ranger]

Good area for them then
It takes a lot of nectar to draw lots of wax

[drumgerry]

Gave a sealed queen cell to my 10 mininucs this afternoon - mininucs confined in the dark till tomorrow AM when I'll let them fly free. Ps - it seems to take me about 1.5 supers worth of bees to fill 10 mininucs at 250ml a pop.

Had a spare SQC so gave it to a colony which has been queenless since early Spring. For some strange reason they seem to be hanging in there and not dwindling too much. No laying workers either. So I thought there's nothing to be lost giving them the extra queen cell. They're probably doomed but what the hell!

[The Drone Ranger]

I checked what old Ron Brown had to say on the wax drawing front
he says the wax drawing bees keep hard at as long as they can get some nectar or thin syrup
but if the flow stops even for short time they stop drawing wax and never go back to it again
So feed swarms unless there is plenty of income (bad weather ahead ?)

[The Drone Ranger]

You reckon I should have syrup on?! !
To go with the rest of the get up
Why not :)
Russ Abbots spare orange one

[Bridget]

Almost back to normal. One hive is making use of the super and i think the other is catching up. Today the bees were crowding round their front door for the first time this year and making a lot of noise. . Only hope the heather recovers in time for the heather honey seeing as i wont get much now. Round here the heather has been devastated by the winter cold east wind and the lack of rain. Where there usually is heather there are brown patches or the greenery has taken over.


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[gavin]

Glad that the bees are back to normal - but that is worrying about the heather which perhaps was going to be the crop that saved the season for many of us. Those brown patches may be an attack of heather beetle. The last serious heather beetle I saw was a couple of years back near the Aviemore to Coire Cas road.

Here is a picture of damage to heather on Raasay: http://skyeraasayplants.wordpress.com/2011/09/02/heather-beetle-damage-and-solitary-bees/

[Bridget]

Ill have a closer look at it Gavin. I just thought it was the long winter.

[fatshark]

Couldn't resist checking for progress in the first swarm I caught this year - a cast from my own hive on the 6th. Delighted to see two full frames of eggs and larvae ... These were treated with OA on the 9th and she must have nipped out to mate around then. A second swarm that occupied a bait hive on the 8th are queenright but have no eggs yet.

Found a chicken on my way back from the apiary and spent 30 minutes feeding it chunks of drone brood I'd chopped out earlier. No idea where it came from as the nearest farm/house keeping chickens is a mile away.

Thought I'd also join the 21st Century by purchasing Tapatalk as the icons on the web interface to SBAi are simply too small for my increasingly dodgy eyesight and fat fingers.

[Bridget]

Further to my earlier post 1569here's a photo I took this pm of the heather damage in my area which is pine forest (natural not forestry). Will also have to go out onto the moorland and see what it's like there.

[drumgerry]

Working on one of my Paynes nucs in the garage this evening to remove the feeder and all was going swimmingly. Needed a frame to check the clearance where the feeder had been removed. On the outside wall of the garage is my bait hive which has been getting checked out all week (it's an un-modded Paynes nuc) by scouts but no swarm had taken up residence yet. I had dismissed the scouts as possibly robbers as the frames in the nuc had a smidgeon of stores left in them.

So....on going round to grab a frame, lifted the lid to be confronted by the sight of rather a large quantity of bees. Uh oh thought I and replaced the lid rather rapidly. Quickly suited up and returned. Sure enough a swarm and 4/5 frames worth of bees in residence! Great thought I! Quickly scanned for the queen and damn it if she isn't marked blue as one of my own!

Damn! No free bees to be had round here! And my last inspection was last Monday at which all colonies had no queen cups with larvae. Or so I thought! Just shows there's no certainties in beekeeping.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Drumgerry
you can use them though to get lots of new wax drawn much more so than a normal colony
That's a bonus :)

[gavin]

Heather is fairly tough stuff and the winter wasn't marked (as I remember) by dramatic low temperatures so I think heather beetle is more likely. Another thing is that heather beetle damaged stands turn brick-red (as your picture seems to show) whereas frosted heather is more grey.

This seems to be the best guide: http://media.wix.com/ugd/111722_9d83175be820ab44b09dccb9aa2f9f41.pdf

Heather beetle damage has been a big issue over the years for beekeepers of all scales using the hills. It can ruin sites for heather honey.

G.

[gavin]

Couldn't resist checking for progress in the first swarm I caught this year - a cast from my own hive on the 6th. Delighted to see two full frames of eggs and larvae ... These were treated with OA on the 9th and she must have nipped out to mate around then. A second swarm that occupied a bait hive on the 8th are queenright but have no eggs yet.


I have one queen of that age but no eggs yet.



Found a chicken on my way back from the apiary and spent 30 minutes feeding it chunks of drone brood I'd chopped out earlier.

LOL! There speaks a man with too much time on his hands ...

[Jon]

That's exactly the kind of thing I would do if I came across a stray hen.
I remember as a youngster the hens used to help remove the leatherjackets as we dug over the vegetable patch.
So much more than an mere egglayer.
Scarify the lawn for you as well.

[The Drone Ranger]

when small hive beetle gets here hens will be the natural defence
They will be the beekeepers friend
You heard it here first :)

[Trog]

Chickens and drone brood in wild comb: a natural combination! I just took the comb to a spot far enough away from interested bees and called the hens over. They wasted no time in helping themselves to a tasty treat.

Today I got stung ... and didn't react, despite having to finish going through a large hive before I could go inside to get some anthisan on it. (The sting site, not the hive) Hurrah!

[drumgerry]

15731574

This arrived in the post today! I haven't pictured the other gubbins such as the CO2 apparatus. Need to learn how to use it now!

[Jon]

Now you are up and running Gerry!

Saw some virgins from the first batch of grafts on Friday 7th today.
A couple of them were out out the cell in the rollers a full day early.
Nice looking queens anyway so good to be up and running with a few apideas set out.
I have about 30 more cells started.

[The Drone Ranger]

Apologies DR "beeequipped.co.uk" they are in Derbyshire

Hi Nemphlar that was an ace tip on Apideas I just took delivery of 10
they are £19-50 now including vat
Next Day Delivery to Scotland £12-00

Total £207

That's only £20-70 each including delivery

Thornes' price is £33 !!!

[Jon]

That is a really good price.
Tempted to get more.

[gavin]

Was in Thornes today myself and saw the price ... plus bumped into Phil McA there stocking up on beekeeping consumables before helping out at the RHS in a couple of days.

Ten Apideas Droney? Sounds like a semi-decent breeding programme you're planning there. If you are interested, I'd be happy to share germplasm in the way of eggs from some nice dark locals. Some of the genetics traces back to you via the Claverhouse Group from where we bought one of the three colonies starting this little venture. Since then, we've added local swarms, some of my stock, and of course many local drones, but they seem still native-ish.

G.

[drumgerry]

£19.50 is a great price! Don't Thornes charge something daft like £30 each for them?! Last ones I got were from Paynes @£23.50 each. Shame the £19.50 place don't have online ordering.

Gavin - if you have any spare queens going I'd be glad to have one or more here in Speyside! Trying to get hold of some foundation queens to graft from and eventually II. Sick of the genetic hodge podge I have at the moment.

[The Drone Ranger]

Was in Thornes today myself and saw the price ... plus bumped into Phil McA there stocking up on beekeeping consumables before helping out at the RHS in a couple of days.

Ten Apideas Droney? Sounds like a semi-decent breeding programme you're planning there. If you are interested, I'd be happy to share germplasm in the way of eggs from some nice dark locals. Some of the genetics traces back to you via the Claverhouse Group from where we bought one of the three colonies starting this little venture. Since then, we've added local swarms, some of my stock, and of course many local drones, but they seem still native-ish.

G.

What happened is first batch 1 out of 5
second batch 3 out of 5 1 died so 2 out of 5

Success rate was only 20%

so switched to JZ/BZ cups and grafted 16 (thought I had done 18)
Expecting 6 or so queen cells---- from a black queen not stinger and no Chalk (honey gatherer --don't know)
Typically I now get 14 starts which are now queen cells and capping
Of course now the apideas have been bought they will all probably keel over
I have the Snelgrove boards on but any chalkbrood prone and the grumpies will be requeened
There is a long way to go to mated queens
The Apideas are just empty boxes for now

I looked at the Claverhouse bees a few weeks ago and they were brilliant healthy, big colonies no stingers etc
I would have been delighted if mine had been doing as well :

It was a Darth Vader moment you know the one where Vader says :-

"I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan.
We meet again, at last.
The circle is now complete.
When I left you, I was but the learner;
now *I* am the master. "

If I had a spare queen I thought was AMM ish you could have it gratis
At the moment I don't know what I have or how it will turn out yet :)

Thanks for the offer of some new genetics I might get back to you on that one

[The Drone Ranger]

15731574

This arrived in the post today! I haven't pictured the other gubbins such as the CO2 apparatus. Need to learn how to use it now!

Drumgerry you crazy spendthrift
Have fun

[Dark Bee]

15731574

This arrived in the post today! I haven't pictured the other gubbins such as the CO2 apparatus. Need to learn how to use it now!

Looks very professional, have fun experimenting. I take it you have all the bits and pieces - be careful with the syringe tips, breaking them is expensive.:cool:
Wishing you the best of luck - enjoy learning.

[fatshark]

Any idea what these are? I've got a fair idea what they're doing?

1575

Syrphid shenanigans ... poor quality shot I'm afraid.

[The Drone Ranger]

Any idea what these are? I've got a fair idea what they're doing?

1575

Syrphid shenanigans ... poor quality shot I'm afraid.

They look like one of the bee flies rather then bees
Oh! Syrphid flies are bee flies then

[drumgerry]

Drumgerry you crazy spendthrift
Have fun

Thanks DR! Had to think long and hard about it but I'm seeing it as an investment for the future.

And yep Dark Bee got all the rest of the gubbins along with it. Reminds me of my old Dynaking fly tying vice if that means anything to anyone!

[fatshark]

HMH man myself drumgerry ...

Syrphids are hover flies. I thought bee flies have very long probosci (proboscids?).

[The Drone Ranger]

Thanks DR! Had to think long and hard about it but I'm seeing it as an investment for the future.

And yep Dark Bee got all the rest of the gubbins along with it. Reminds me of my old Dynaking fly tying vice if that means anything to anyone!

Now you need a nice trout stream --- sorry I mean mother queen

[drumgerry]

Jeez DR - I live almost on the banks of one of the seriously expensive parts of the Spey - could chuck a stone in from the bedroom window just about. But no way could I afford to fish it. Even if I could I wouldn't pay it. So I spend the season dodging hoorays in their Range Rovers. Come the revolution...... (whoops didn't mean it GCHQ honest!)

Oh and Fatshark my piscatorial days are pretty much over so the Dynaking went to a good home courtesy of Ebay! HMH - nice!

[The Drone Ranger]

HMH man myself drumgerry ...

Syrphids are hover flies. I thought bee flies have very long probosci (proboscids?).
Dont trust them
They boast a lot about their proboscis

[The Drone Ranger]

Jeez DR - I live almost on the banks of one of the seriously expensive parts of the Spey - could chuck a stone in from the bedroom window just about. But no way could I afford to fish it. Even if I could I wouldn't pay it. So I spend the season dodging hoorays in their Range Rovers. Come the revolution...... (whoops didn't mean it GCHQ honest!)
There was a house sold near me recently inc a 2 acre plot with fishing rights on the river Isla
Don't know what its like these days but as a boy there were grayling trout and salmon

[gavin]

Gavin - if you have any spare queens going I'd be glad to have one or more here in Speyside! Trying to get hold of some foundation queens to graft from and eventually II. Sick of the genetic hodge podge I have at the moment.

Jon is doing some morphometry on the 5 at the association apiary and so far they look near-Amm on wing morphometry. We'll post the plots here at some stage. Bear in mind that these have never been selected for wing morphometry, just for 'looking like' Amm in an area with imports. There are some banded bees around but not many and I think that they are all in one colony.

If we have any spare later this summer I'd be delighted to send you one or two. Could also send eggs if they are of interest.

[Jon]

Eggs could be a plan as they are very resilient. All you would need to do is cut a hole in a comb and insert the comb with the eggs in.
You could then graft larvae a couple of days later.
I've never tried this but it should work unless the comb is totally mistreated in the post.

[gavin]

Stick it in a box then Jon? ;)

(our experience with padded envelopes has not been that good .... )

[gavin]

All you would need to do is ....

Or if that doesn't work (and conversations that Dave Cushman recorded suggest it might not (http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/postaleggs.html)), make a queenless egg- and young larvae-less cell starter, then introduce the eggs. Cutting the comb into strips and positioning pointing down in the spaces between the top bars might be effective in going straight to a few queen cells, unless the comb is too fragile.

A mated queen is going to carry a lot more genetic diversity of course (in that spermatheca).

[Jon]

The other possibility would be posting drone semen.
I believe it stays viable for a couple of weeks.

[gavin]

Interesting. Gerry can come and squeeze our drones whenever he likes! Here's that picture of Santa Claus again. I have a beard so I guess I could do it.

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243&d=1275259215

Looking back at the plots Gerry posted on 25th Jan (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?153-Your-gallery-of-2D-plots/page29) ours are a little but not a lot better. They would add some diversity to his material.

[gavin]

Syrphid shenanigans ... poor quality shot I'm afraid.

Decent (indecent) photo in my eyes. If it is *really* imitating a bee then we all know what should happen next :eek:

What happens to bumble bees in that situation? Do the drones live to try again another day? Where is Dave Goulson when you need him?

[drumgerry]

I'd be up for having a go with eggs if anyone wants to send me some. This year I'm pretty much going to be experimenting (the beekeeping version of Dr Mengele here!) on my hybrids with II so I'd not want to waste drone semen from native-ish types. The reason being I'm likely to make an arse of things and I'm probably not likely to get a proper II queen till I'm properly familiar and confident with it all. Btw - I'll be only too happy to give you guys an II queen once I'm good at it!

For my open mated queens if I don't change my genetics I'm doomed to have endless hybrids as there are not many bees apart from mine round here. So I'm trying to do what we did with the alpacas - get good foundation stock and start from there.

My plot from 25th Jan is the breeder queen I used again in the last couple of weeks. Problem is her daughters offspring will be even less AMM after their dalliance with my multi-coloured drones. The only good thing is that my bees are pretty much locally-adapted and decent tempered. But their use of stores, the temperatures they fly in and their unceasing brood production in dodgy conditions are not what I want. Interestingly my breeder queen colony (probably my most AMM type) came through the winter with loads of stores and has built up nice and steadily since SPring.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Drumgerry

It doesn't matter a fly whether all her daughters mate with cross eyed drones
All the drones these daughters produce will only carry their genes ie AMM type
Thats the good news and your hives probably control the local mating station so your in a good position
Amm drones are what you need for your crazy Frankenstein device
I don't think you will have much bother getting a few unmated Amm queens posted to you

[Jon]

A queencell at day 11 from grafting with half a dozen attendants and a little food in a roller cage with it would be easy to post as well.
The queens are fully formed and moving inside the cell at that stage.
As DR says, no matter what these mate with they would produce only AMM drones.
It takes 2 years to get all your colonies set up producing the right drones when you are starting from scratch.

[drumgerry]

Sorry DR I meant that the colonies the daughters will produce are hybridised because of the rest of my drones (what they ave mated wif)!

[drumgerry]

Queencells, virgin queens, eggs - bring it on! lol:D

[The Drone Ranger]

How does a bit of comb with eggs get used
I thought any bees you give them to will just munch them up ?
Do you have to keep them warm til the egg hatches ?

[The Drone Ranger]

Sorry DR I meant that the colonies the daughters will produce are hybridised because of the rest of my drones (what they ave mated wif)!
The good news though, is the whole colony can be hybridised, but all the drones (because they only have moms genes) can be pure as the driven snow

Here's Good old Snelgrove's plan
Get pure mother raise daughters requeen all your stocks in the apiary
The daughters will have been mated by the bee next door so her workers are hybrids but her drones are pure
Next get a different pure mother raise daughters from her this time the drone next door is a pure one from your hives
So yippee!"! all the daughters mate with suitable partners and now lay pure workers and pure drones

Cue sunset "and they all lived happily ever after " :)

Because you have a fierce instrument of bee torture available, you can speed the whole process up, avoiding the flying around mating bit which is generally where it all goes wrong.
The girls don't get to run off and mate with johnny foreigner oh ! no it's the good old arranged marriage to a good chap with the right type of wings and undercarriage :)

Plus at the going rate of £45 a pop you will soon be able to look the wife in the eye and say "told you it would pay for itself"

You know all this already but folk reading the thread might not and my typing finger needed some exercise :)

[gavin]

Not 10 min ago I opened a split from ESBA1 (wing plot to follow, there are maybe 5% banded bees the rest Amm-looking). This one had spare Q cells left, and the first out was piping. So there are now 2 virgin walking about roller cages with a smear of honey and 2 attendants. PM/email your address if you want them and they'll be in the post tonight.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

[drumgerry]

PM sent Gavin!

[Jon]

That one has a reasonably good plot, Gerry, and all the bees in it were dark. No yellow banding seen at all in the sample I tested which had about 70 bees.

[The Drone Ranger]

That one has a reasonably good plot, Gerry, and all the bees in it were dark. No yellow banding seen at all in the sample I tested which had about 70 bees.
that was no sample that was a complete hive of AMM bees put to the sword
moreover the piping identifies them clearly as Scottish from clan MacNoswarm

[gavin]

And the bums looked hairy to me. There are some (a few) banded ones so presumably at least one of the drones she mated with was one of those southern types. Unless they've wandered in from somewhere - the colony was at the end of the line.

The whole apiary is a similar type, without the banded ones in other colonies. They often have pollen all round the brood nest too.

Feel free to post the plot in the long thread on plots in the native bees area if you like Jon. Otherwise I'll do it late this evening.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

[gavin]

Lol! They were thinking of swarming but I intervened and they now occupy 7 boxes, they were that strong.

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[The Drone Ranger]

Lol! They were thinking of swarming but I intervened and they now occupy 7 boxes, they were that strong.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

All in different counties

I hope neither you nor Jon have lost the plot ?

[The Drone Ranger]

Stung in the butt 3 times
spotted bees going in and out of bait hive in afternoon
Went back at night found big swarm outside hive covering one side and wrapping round front and back
Being a moron I go get a paynes nuc with new foundation put some food in slot and block it to stop bees going in there
How many times do bees need to ignore the tiny entrance and run under the hive where they cling to the underfloor mesh
It always happens and I should know not to use them for this job
Scoop them up chuck them in take cardboard out of feed slot
They look very like buckfast bees
I have two hives like that but they are both very gentle
These bees are biaches and are stinging anything that moves (me)
I have two black which I consider wild but they are gentle compared to these boogers
Lets hope tomorrow they have improved or pushed off again
The rape is going over so swarming will be a rear danger now for me

[gavin]

How many times do bees need to ignore the tiny entrance and run under the hive where they cling to the underfloor mesh
It always happens and I should know not to use them for this job


Every time with the old design. I usually put a piece of wood in the way to encourage them to walk up. The new design with the hole in the side overcomes this.

I had hoped all the local Buckfast had died out ... But folk do keep importing such unsuitable types ... Have some individuals like that appearing in my hives which shows they're near me too.
Jon posted plots last night but if you're using Tapatalk the 'stickied' thread doesn't appear to be visible. Only on the web interface.


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[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Gavin
I saw the plots and they must be encouraging
When looking at the DCA subject the idea of a wide exclusion zone round each DCA came up
You might be lucky and get local drone control so good luck with that
Apiary vicinity mating could be a good thing but it made me wonder if drones congregate more where lots of virgin queens appear
If that is the case then lots of mating activity in your local DCA might attract more outside area drones after a while

In fairness there are lots of very gentle buckfast bees and crosses of all types
There are some aggressive AMM strains as well you only have to read they older bee books to confirm that
In a time when beekeepers concentrated only on getting honey they tolerated some pretty grim behaviour

[Jon]

I am pretty sure that all bee sub species and Buckfast as well are fairly docile when crossed within race.
Even the most rudimentary breeding programme selecting for docility and eliminating queens heading aggressive colonies will deliver a massive improvement in stock in just 2 or 3 years.
Problem is, most beekeepers just let their bees swarm and requeen themselves crossing with whatever drones happen to be on the wing at the time. A couple of generations down the line you have a colony producing an assortment of hybridised virgin queens which continue to cross with the local drones - which likely include some from recent imports as well.
A population like this will never stabilise and will throw up some horrendous aggressive colonies as well as the odd decent one.
The thing about black bees being aggressive is one of the biggest myths in beekeeping. I have several colonies you can work bare handed if you want to.

Note the protection worn by the demonstrator at the Galtee apiary.
1589

Tom Robinson from the Bibba committee doesn't look to worried about what might emerge from that box either.

[madasafish]

The thing about black bees being aggressive is one of the biggest myths in beekeeping. I have several colonies you can work bare handed if you want to.

Note the protection worn by the demonstrator at the Galtee apiary.
1589

Tom Robinson from the Bibba comittee doesn't look to worried about what might emerge from that box either.

My belief - and practice - is that beekeeping should be enjoyable . If it can't be done bare handed , it's not worth doing.

[The Drone Ranger]

My belief - and practice - is that beekeeping should be enjoyable . If it can't be done bare handed , it's not worth doing.
Dead right Madasafish
My bees are a mixture of types but I don't put up with grumpies
I can work with them bare handed easily
I use the thin latex ones to avoid disease transfer between hives
Most times smoke is just a standby to get the boxes back together without squashing the little monkeys

I thought the two I am requeening for following and getting the hump were bad
But I now see some folk would think they were fine or better than that

Went through my two hives with similar looking bees today all present, marked, and correct
So the new lot are interlopers from elsewhere (when the rape is nearly over bees put on it start swarming )

Luckily the old chap who dumped his dead out Nuc hive with me and said "if you get a swarm bung them in here" has just got his wish
If they stay in the polynuc drawing out some wax I'll move them to his ply nuc and he can have them
He is a very experienced beekeeper so he can deal with them
A newbie would be put off forever I recon
And I will wear jeans that don't hang down and a longer teashirt to avoid presenting a vulnerable target when moving them
Cue Butt jokes

[gavin]

They were thinking of swarming but I intervened and they now occupy 7 boxes, they were that strong.



All in different counties

I hope neither you nor Jon have lost the plot ?

Did get the joke yesterday and I was in the association shed again where I did chuckle once more....

Here they are. ESBA1. (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?153-Your-gallery-of-2D-plots/page30) One Swienty box of lovely, well-behaved dark bees, which got a second Swienty box of which they used two or three frames before needing ASed. I split off a couple of frames with the old queen - she's on the stand at the back right in the Paynes box. Then a few days later the main box (which had the flying bees) was split into 6, each with two good frames of bees and a Q cell or cells. In those few days 12 frames had become 14. The Swienty box went behind as I thought bees would recognise it as home so I made it harder to find. The arc of 5 Paynes boxes was supposed to collect a random sample of the fliers, Vince Cook style, and it seems to have worked.

http://www.sbai.org.uk/images/one_to_seven_Tayside_Amm.jpg

Now each box has about three frames of bees and the honey is piling in. Plus there's one queen hatched in an Apidea behind the shed and two virgins being soaked and dumped in Apideas in Speyside as we speak (I hope!). (Stop press: as I wrote that Gerry was emailing to say: Job done!)

If they all get mated (I'll report back), that is a multiplication rate - from one iffy overwintering survivor - of 6 (I'll knock off one for the old queen, though she should be good for a second year).

Why the Scottish Government is subsidising the mass importation of non-native, maladapted strains that are likely to hybridise with stocks like these is .... well .... it isn't sensible. At all. Gerry there is one thing you can do for me - make sure that meeting with Richard Lochhead is an effective one.

G.

[GRIZZLY]

Just removed 70 pounds of honey from the rape with more to follow . Used limited smoke and always operate my bees bare handed. I've never worn gloves and probably only get 2 or 3 stings a year. Normally they won't react if you are calm and gentle. No swarms so far but I expect them to make preparation as the rape goes off. Nice to see such increase Gavin . If everyone did the same - we would be self sufficient with regard to neucs for beginners.

[drumgerry]

"Lost the plot" - a joke only a bee breeding geek would get!:D

Great pic Gavin. Good to see ESBA1 becoming ESBA1+. I have something similar in mind for my yellowest lot with darker queens to head them. So at least there's an upside to all the brood production.

Your ESBA virgins are now being given the lowdown on Speyside by my bees in a couple of brand spanking new Apideas as we speak. Currently sitting closed up (per Jon's instructions) and in the dark in my shed till tomorrow. My OH is particularly pleased we now have a couple of Dundonians as she did her trainee journalist course at DC's. Fingers crossed all is well.

I may have sourced a nice local dark queen to graft from having just seen a pic posted on Facebook by one of our Spey Beeks members. From what I know of the background to their bees I suspect they're native-ish.

Richard Lochhead meeting a work in progress. Will let you know.

[The Drone Ranger]

Old FC pellet describes a langstroth method of raising queen cells which basically goes like this
Split a strong double box hive of the best type bees into 3 Nucs a,b,c
The queen is in a
Two are queen less b,c and will raise cells which you harvest by cutting out
the queen moves into b for a week to 9 days
The queen moves to c for week to 9 days
Cells from a are harvested
The queen moves to b
Etc
No grafting just a sharp pocket knife
You still need the mating hives but you can do this with a white stick and delirium tremens and still get it right :)
never tried it but it sounds straightforward

[Jon]

Old FC pellet describes a langstroth method of raising queen cells

Someone mention pellets?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lorVUJAp8LU

[Dark Bee]

[QUOTE=The Drone Ranger;19326]Old FC pellet describes a langstroth method of raising queen cells which basically goes like this
Split a strong double box hive of the best type bees into 3 Nucs a,b,c............................................. .................................................. ............


My initial reaction is that one is expecting parts of a full colony to raise queen cells. Hardly a receipe for consistently raising quality queens or have I missed something?

[The Drone Ranger]

Dark bee you probably are right
Best check out the book for the exact method I probably have it wrong
When I make a split over a Snelgrove board I usually put the Q/exc in and wait till cells are started before the board goes on but not always
I leave the queen raising to the experts :)

[greengumbo]

Well two colonies now up and running. Great to have them back after my only hive carked it in February. They are going mad for the broom at the moment - so much about and every bush covered in yellow flowers. My bee friendly garden is coming along nicely.....they especially like the pond it seems. Phacelia and Borage about to flower soon.

Having said that its the first day of Summer and the first rain I've had in three weeks...typical.

Just need to get them built up now and might sneak a honey crop if lucky.

[chris]

They are going mad for the broom at the moment - so much about and every bush covered in yellow flowers. .

Funny that- here the hills are covered in broom as well at the moment, and the bees never touch it. Are there several varieties, and we have the wrong one ?

[The Drone Ranger]

Funny that- here the hills are covered in broom as well at the moment, and the bees never touch it. Are there several varieties, and we have the wrong one ?
They are finding something nicer wonder what it is ?
How's the weather been in France Chris I saw a news item that Germany has had flash floods and all sorts

[chris]

Masses of all types of wild flowers plus the leguminous ones that were sown decades ago when the area had more sheep grazing.
Over in the south west, bad flooding-agricultural catastrophy, and many of the claret vineyards washed out. Here, a heatwave since last week, though today the temps are back below 30. Potatoes growing more quickly than I can earth them up. Jon is lucky being able to do it in the driving rain!!

[lindsay s]

Third day of poor weather up here, plenty of rain and fog. My bees need attention but it’s been too cold to open up the hives. I’ve got supers, frames and empty nucs at the ready. I’m just waiting for a break in the weather and hoping the bees don’t swarm before I can get to them.:(

[The Drone Ranger]

Pretty wet here today
Moved the queen cells to apideas but weather turned cold tonight
Did a little cell punching anyway
Best of luck with the swarming Lindsay they usually wait till the weather improves then make a break for it :)

[gavin]

Duck tape a brolly to your back, make sure you have an extra layer of clothing on so that the stings don't get through, given that its getting dark tape a torch to the side of your head, and just get on with it! You know it makes sense ....

[lindsay s]

Your right Gavin inspections will be carried out tomorrow reguardless of the weather otherwise Doris will make off with the swarms.

[Neils]

Not looked at all this week. The weather's rotten and none of them really need looking at. Three that are inevitably picking the crap weather to try and mate queens, one that refuses to bring any honey in.

Instead I'm tearing my hair out trying to arrange Basic Assessments. Bless the BBKA but the current system doesn't make it easy for someone working 16 hours a day at the stuff that actually pays wages to try and slot in a bit of organising the 30+ assessments that we have on the table this year. Herding cats with added paperwork is how I've described it before and I'm sticking to it. It is much, much harder work than it should be. I've implemented multi million pound projects that were less stress than getting a few people through their basic assessment.

[lindsay s]

A strong north westerly wind here today and not warmer than 12c but I managed to get the inspections done. Despite the conditions there weren't to many stings and the mood of the bees was far better than I expected. On the plus side a visiting beekeeper gave me a hand and that cut down the time the hives were open. On the minus side trying to inspect brood frames when 90% of the bees were at home wasn't easy. All the colonies had a lot more pollen than this time last year and a few are starting to fill their supers. Two colonies had queen cells with eggs and the rest showed no signs of swarming so I didn't bother with any splits today. Now I can sleep tight for another week.

[fatshark]

As suspected, the swarm I caught on Friday was from my own apiary. They swarmed from only about 5-6 frames of brood which was a pretty poor show. Now re-housed, I found the queen and she's already laid up the best part of a frame of newly drawn foundation (don't you just love how fast swarms set up home?). I re-marked her and clipped her so she won't be off again ... and as soon as my mated queens are ready she'll be going to a reserve nuc prior to pensioning her off/giving her away. She's marked blue as I put my white pen through the wash in the pocket of my beesuit! I'm colour blind and can't see this year and next years 'official' colours.

Set up my Ben Harden cell raiser in a hive that has three nearly full supers already. I always add the grafts to a box immediately above the QE and then move them above the supers after they've been started ... primarily because I don't want to be lifting all that weight every time I check them. Better weather today and the bees were wonderfully calm.

[greengumbo]

Just back from outside. Walked past the large cotoneaster and it was literally alive with bees (geoff). Must have been about 200. None yesterday or this morning so they must have just found it.

[fatshark]

Thoroughly unpleasant grafting session this evening ... nothing to do with the bees or the weather, both of which were near perfect. It was the hay fever ... by the time I started picking larvae I was sniffing and sneezing and had (even more horribly) piggy eyes that I could barely see out of. The sacrifices we make!

I suspect some of the 'larvae' were nearing the blue eyed stage. I'll find out tomorrow.

[fatshark]

Whether they were blue eyed or not, the grafts took :-) Hay fever no better but I now know i can graft with my eyes almost closed ...

[chris]

I had a good look at some of the lime trees today. The green flower buds have a tiny white cross at the bottom, so according to my calculations the bees will start working them in about 10 days. Especially if the good weather that has been forecasted holds true. A good crop of lime honey after last year's failure will be very welcome.
The limes down the valley are only 7 km. away, but are about 300m. lower. They are already finishing!!

[gavin]

The limes here look like they were over a couple of weeks ago. But then some of the butterflies are decidedly different too.

The bees are very carnie-like, dark and slender, more typical than those invading the UK. Saw a bunch on privet just 10 min ago.

Here is western Hungary. I'm on my travels again.

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[Neils]

Well I don't think I'll be needing my extractor this year but all 4 hives now appear to ave laying queens, not that I could find any of them! The brood side of my allotment bees has about three fames of eggs and the queen side continues to build up nicely.

On the nature reserve I messed, lost the swarm and decided to split the hive anyway. The side on mostly new combs is building up nicely. The other which had the bulk of the older combs isn't currently doing quite as well and there continues to be a lot of uncapped old brood in them. Sunken brown cappings aren't what I wanted to see in a colony, but having uncapped 20+ of them to see what was going on I'm confident that they're uncapped chalk brood. I probably should have chucked all but the frame with the queen cell on it in hindsight but all the larvae in at colony currently appear healthy enough. As they expand onto the foundation which Ye are just starting to drawn out I'd like to think I can get the majority of the old comb removed entirely. I'm reasonably satisfied that the chalk brood was being caused by the colony being damp, since e hive was put onto a higher stand in the spring I've seen no new chalk brood appearing and their temper has improved dramatically, but I don't like that there are combs containing dead/chalk brood still in the hive. So for both of these ill be getting them onto new foundation as soon as they drawn and have brood in the new wax that's already there.

The brambles are just starting in earnest so it's not totally outside the realms of possibility that I might get a super of honey.

My aim this year though is to get 4 strong colonies into winter.

[fatshark]

Niels ... interesting you associate chalkbrood with damp. I have a colony in a damp woodland corner with a grafted Q from last year. It has chalkbrood. All her half sister queens are in other drier apiaries, none have chalkbrood. Other colonies in the wood don't have chalkbrood.

Any others have similar experience?

[Black Comb]

I had a lot of chalk brood 2 seasons ago. Around then I moved some hives to a woodland apiary and expected it might be a continuing problem. Since then v little at either site.
Only explanation I can think of is that all the queens have changed since then.
Have always been on OMF's all year around.
The woodland apiary catches the wind and rain straight off the sea, so plenty of water about.

[Neils]

Within the same hive, same queen, much of the chalkbrood disappeared within two months of changing the stand the hive was on.

The nature reserve they're on is at the bottom of a valley so all the local rain drains through here so the ground is frequently very wet. Flooding's never been an issue, but the hive was on a couple of pallets so very close to the ground and the outside of the hive was starting to grow moss!

[madasafish]

Our Association apiary had one hive with very bad chalkbrood.

A shaken swarm onto drawn out foundation : and now fine.

The old foundation melted down.

[The Drone Ranger]

Our Association apiary had one hive with very bad chalkbrood.

A shaken swarm onto drawn out foundation : and now fine.

The old foundation melted down.

Think that is the best solution
Even just foundation in a clean hive new floor crown board etc
Then feed steadily while they draw out new wax
I have tried the mycostop and not convinced
I have tried just leaving the frames with mummies and changing to a top entrance so they don't walk over the floor --waiting to see effect The bottom entrance blocked and the broodbox sitting on an excluder over the solid floor to let mummies drop through
But the ones brushed onto foundation and fed are now completely clear (old frames burnt)

[Jon]

Fumigating with 80% acetic acid fumes should kill chalkbrood spores without having to burn the combs.

It does seem to be a particularly bad year for chalkbrood. Everyone is commenting on it.

[drumgerry]

Bit of a beekeeping adventure this morning. Travelled 20 miles to deliver a nuc and when I got there grafted from the recipient's queen (not the one in the nuc). Frame wrapped in a wet tea towel and back home to my cell raiser. It'll be interesting to see how many grafts get started but I think the colony (queenright, rearranged per the Harden method) is definitely in the mood to raise some cells. There were large clusters of bees on all the Jenter cells when I removed the frame from its overnight acclimatisation/clean-up stint before heading off with it to the grafting colony.

Oh and re chalkbrood. Been noticing a fair few mummies on the floors of most of my hives but the bees seem to clearing it out of the cells sharpish so not a problem for me this year.

[Rosco]

Yesterdays news: Great day at the Association Apiary. Good talk on nuc building. Then some of the hives were opened and demonstrations given, nucs made from a hive that had swarmed, varroa control via drone comb removal (which was later fed to my chickens see pics!) and various other manipulations. Weather wasn't great though so the bees weren't too happy to see us!
16261627

Todays news: Fed all my colonies as still encouraging them to build up and to draw out foundation. Found mould in two contact feeders so cleaned them out with Soda Crystals then refilled with 1:1. Really don't like the contact feeders. I struggled to contain the bees that were on the feeder and to get them to go back down. Too much smoke and a load of annoyed bees later, and I managed to reset the feeders, though.

My other colony has a rapid feeder, much easier to deal with, and I also placed my lovely new clear crownboard on that colony. I like the thought of being able to watch them for a bit longer each inspection without disturbing them. We'll see how it pans out.

Next purchase will be more rapid feeders, but after a large delivery of equipment last week I will have to wait a while, or get them delivered to a friend!

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Rosco
sound like a good session
Good luck sneaking the feeders past the missus :)

[Dark Bee]

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......................................

Next purchase will be more rapid feeders, but after a large delivery of equipment last week I will have to wait a while, or get them delivered to a friend!

Contact feeders are disastrous if used in other than the smallest sizes - syrup flowing out the door :rolleyes:, a honey jar with a few holes in the lid usually works well. Rapid feeders are excellent, pour some syrup down the hole to get the bees started. 1:1 syrup goes mouldy very quickly, only feed small quantities, remember you are not helping them stock up for winter! Rather are you simulating a nectar flow, feed in the evening, don't spill any and feeding hot syrup also starts robbing.

[drumgerry]

I use 2 litre contact feeders frequently (homemade using mesh from a splatter guard and a glue called Marine Goop if that means anything to anyone) and I've never had the fabled letdown of syrup as you describe Dark Bee - just shows there's no absolutes in this game! Rapid feeders are great if you can get the bees to use them which can be a problem in Spring.

[GRIZZLY]

Off to the rape again tomorrow to remove the final twelve supers full of sealed and semi-sealed honey. I've extracted seventy pounds so far. I've got to cart the six colonies off as well and then do a rapid check for swarm cells and possible swarm control. The other colonies have had additional supers added and are sitting on sealed sycamore/hawthorn honey and the beginnings of a good clover flow. Despite the late start , this year is heading towards pay-back time for the past two years expensive outlay on feed etc. Despite being small in size in the spring , all the colonies are now bursting with bees so with a good feed later on they should go into the winter strong with a good chance of wintering well. I'll take off some splits with a view to overwintering some young queens for an early start next year.

[GRIZZLY]

ITS WAR.!. The bees aren't going to give up their spoils without a fight. They went beserk - my nice gentle bees turned into fiends and went on a stinging and following campaign. We only managed to remove half of the crop before having to retreat in the face of stiff opposition. Armour plated bee suits tomorrow and an extra smoker with bee brushes at the ready. I'll take a water sprayer with me as well - they will be well and truly subdued before I'm finished. I have heard that there's something in rape pollen that makes them quite peppery - certainly gingered up my little darlings. We'll see what tomorrow brings. Still managed to extract another 60 pounds tho'.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Grizzly
Sympathy : they often are a bit frisky as the rape ends and the honey gets pinched :)
Canadian clearer boards are very good for getting the little devils off the combs.
http://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1915
I never brush them off these days because they remember you if you become a foe

[GRIZZLY]

Thanks DR ,some of them cleared o.k. the others only cleared the upper super and hid out in the bottom one. I'm off down south next weekend and have to get the crop off before I go- then get the bees back home . The colonies have made up for lost time and got very big. Never fear we shall overcome.

[Rosco]

Today I spotted a field of OSR in full bloom and chapped the door of the farm to ask if they would allow me to put my bees on there to build up. Turns out my friendly neighbourhood beefarmer has that site sewn up though, which to be honest I had guessed would be the case. But, as I said to the farmer, nothing ventured = nothing gained! At least he was nice and polite about it!

There is not a lot of OSR near me unfortunately. This is the only field I have seen this year less than 50 miles away!

Edit to add: There will of course be many more fields of OSR within a 50 mile radius of me, just none that I have spotted yet! The only other field of OSR I have seen this year was over 60 miles to the West of here.

[Jimbo]

Open a hive at the beginning of the week to check that a queen cell had hatched. It had but also noticed more sealed queen cells. Was about to chop them out when a virgin hatched out from the frame I was holding in my hand. Decided to put the frame with the new hatched virgin into a nuc box. Was uncertain what to do with the original hive so stuck in a test frame with eggs from another colony. Checked yesterday and test frame was OK so there must have been another queen hatched in the hive. Also saw some evidence that she was starting to lay. Result! as I now have the original queen, a new hatched laying queen and a virgin in a nuc box while still continuing to collect honey as the colony is onto its third super.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Rosco
Rape is a mixed blessing really you can get lots of honey
You do best if your colonies build fast early season
The crop ends with a bump most years with bees having to find alternative sources
The swarming season is influenced by both the rapid build up and the sudden disappearance
All the Commercial activity would make selective breeding of your bees very difficult
Sadly to meet the requirements of early strong stocks lots of bees are imported
If you live next to rape like I do, you adjust to get the best crop
Possibly the same could be said in heather areas but there you can have many more opportunities in queen breeding etc.
There may be changes now to the type of pesticide used in future
On balance I would rather be 50 miles away from the nearest rape :)

[The Drone Ranger]

Well played Jimbo that was a " Don't panic Captain Mainwaring " moment :)

been reading Alley's queen rearing book today
Old but interesting

[Rosco]

Yesterday I attended an all day course by Graeme Sharpe of Scotland's Rural College on Varroa Management. It was an excellent day and for those who have not been lucky enough to attend a course or talk by Graeme he is an excellent speaker and a font of knowledge, get your local BKA to book him! The views on all of the methods were very balanced and people were given the information so that they could make their own mind up, which is how I prefer anything in my life, rather than "do it this way". I now know how I plan to approach varroa management for the next couple of years. Good price for all day training too.



All the Commercial activity would make selective breeding of your bees very difficult
Sadly to meet the requirements of early strong stocks lots of bees are imported


Drone Ranger, thanks for the helpful reply. To pick up on this section, Graeme mentioned that in his opinion local drones fly faster and harder than imports. In particular he thought that Mellifera Mellifera were the strongest drones. So maybe all is not lost! Food for thought, at least..

Thanks for the balanced thoughts on the OSR too. I think there is some heather within a couple of miles of me, I might ask the farmer if I can move my bees closer, though. Although as I type I remembered the 3 mile rule... Perhaps I won't bother! Hypothetically, when should one move their bees to the heather? How long should they remain there? It is a pity you have to destroy the comb to retrieve the honey too, as a beginner I have hardly any drawn comb!

Edited to ask: Is it true that bees cannot be overwintered on heather honey stores? I think I read somewhere that it causes dissentry..

[The Drone Ranger]

I'm too lazy and disorganised for moves to the heather Rosco :)
The tips are :-
A young queen.
A hive crowded with bees
Use a tool called a comb cutter and unwired foundation ideally
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://northernbees.co.uk/images/Comb%2520Cutter.jpg&imgrefurl=http://northernbees.co.uk/index.php?main_page%3Dindex%26cPath%3D9&h=300&w=300&sz=13&tbnid=pEj5QE7MNAgmzM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=90&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcomb%2Bcutter%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=comb+cutter&usg=__wpv5EWl8F1zvDj9GruGQ0KiTcDk=&docid=iTAyglhRDMXuJM&sa=X&ei=i8PWUZzgOseshQeliYCgDA&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQ9QEwAQ&dur=4987#imgdii=_
then the honey goes in a little plastic tray
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://northernbees.co.uk/images/Comb%2520Cutter.jpg&imgrefurl=http://northernbees.co.uk/index.php?main_page%3Dindex%26cPath%3D9&h=300&w=300&sz=13&tbnid=pEj5QE7MNAgmzM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=90&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcomb%2Bcutter%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=comb+cutter&usg=__wpv5EWl8F1zvDj9GruGQ0KiTcDk=&docid=iTAyglhRDMXuJM&sa=X&ei=i8PWUZzgOseshQeliYCgDA&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQ9QEwAQ&dur=4987#imgdii=pEj5QE7MNAgmzM%3A%3BSslMNcUWHqrcQM %3BpEj5QE7MNAgmzM%3A

Heather honey is valuable but bees winter on it fine
Some folk will mention the protein content but I don't think that is a problem
Like any hive where the crop is removed the bees will need feeding before winter

The mating would certainly apply to Italian bees maybe less so Carniolans

[Dark Bee]

.................................................. .......Edited to ask: Is it true that bees cannot be overwintered on heather honey stores? I think I read somewhere that it causes dissentry..

Rosco, the time honoured reply to that question is; before man came along (or more specifically before sugar became freely available), what did wild colonies live/overwinter on in heather areas?

You may with benefit read "Having Healthy Honey bees" - an integrated approach by John McMullan. Unlike a self appointed expert who unavoidably springs to mind, John is well qualified and an able writer, the book is without parallel and I commend it highly. Northern bee books are stockists.

[Bridget]

Hypothetically, when should one move their bees to the heather? How long should they remain there? ..

Around here the commercial boys move their bees up mid to late July and take them away early October.
Re heather honey - last year was my first, and the bees had spent some time drawing out so I left the same frames on for the heather and extracted all together. Only about 12lbs but it kept fine till finished in Feb. this year bees have been a bit slow to get started so will probably do the same but add a frame of heather honey combs in the middle as the heather comes out.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Bridget
I wonder if you brought your own bees back before the start of October for feeding and treating for varroa prior to winter, or just left them with enough heather stores to see them through.
Any tips would be welcome thanks

[GRIZZLY]

VICTORY.!. We went up to the rape this afternoon and succeeded in lifting the supers, brushing out the bees that refused to go down-then storing the supers bee tight in the back of the pick-up. We then added the mesh travelling screens and hive straps. We'll be up there again tonight to uplift the hives and stands. I recon the total harvest about 200 pounds. Then over to my other sites to uplift the frames of Sycamore honey before the bees eat it all. They're working the clover like crazy as well at the moment.

[Rosco]

Thanks for all the replies. Will bees draw comb when on heather? As I probably wont have many super frames drawn out before mid-July! I guess Dark Bee's response might cover this one, i.e. wild bees have probably drawn comb on heather for centuries. My worry would be that the bees will fill the available laying space with heather honey and then swarm.

Also, bringing them back in October, is that too late to then feed syrup or ambrosia for overwintering?

I am tempted to try to find a heather site, particularly as I may be moving home soon (only half a mile away) so might need to move the bees >3 miles away anyway. But if I am setting myself up for a fall by doing so with my small colonies I will not take them to heather.

[Bumble]

Rosco - If there's heather within a couple of miles they'll find it, but if you could move your bees a mile further away than the 2 miles they'll only have a mile to travel 'back' to it, and will be further than the 3 miles. But at that time of year there won't be much forage apart from heather so they probably won't get too lost. You could always leave one hive on the current site for strays.


Use a tool called a comb cutter and unwired foundation ideally
I borrowed one of these last year, it got clogged and ended up crushing almost as much comb as it cut. It was easier to cut the whole comb out of the frame, put it on a cake rack over a tray and use a sharp knife. I know some people use dental floss to cut comb honey, using a card template that matches the size of the boxes they've got. They win prizes, so it must work!

edit:
Oh, oops, I took too long writing my reply.

I can only speak from my local experience, and we have quite a long heather season. They will draw comb, if you haven't got thin 'cut comb' foundation then use starter strips in unwired frames. Standard foundation is a bit too chewy.

Overwintering - mine only get fondant. I don't take honey from the brood box, so they keep what they've stored during the year and there's ivy after the heather.

P.S.
Well done Grizzly!

[Mellifera Crofter]

I don't think I'll do a vertical AS ever again. Making the split was easy, and I kept is simple (Jimbo's advice from last year), but then the problems started. I could not inspect the queen at the bottom of this huge tower so did not know what was going on but the worst was splitting the hives. It resulted in a huge fight between mother and daughter hives. That was two days ago. Today I managed to open the mother hive and discovered that she had flown, and probably long ago. Because I did not have drawn comb at the time of the AS, I added a comb of brood with the mother hive and that was probably my mistake. That, and not being able to inspect her part of the hive.

The tower was mother hive, QX, super, swarm board, daughter hive, super. When I inspected the super of the mother hive I found one queen cell in there with a bee trying to get out. I helped it out and found it was a drone. Do they sometimes try to turn drones into queen cells by mistake?

Kitta

[Dark Bee]

Kitta, when selecting a queen cell, part of the received wisdom here is to avoid any cells located near drone cells/comb. I always suspected the reason was to avoid what you describe. Sorry about your spot of wretched luck.

[fatshark]

Busy evening ...

Score card
Queens from mini-nucs marked and caged = 6
Old Queens from hives with poor brood pattern, chalkbrood, running on the frames or otherwise undesirable traits squidged on the fence post = 2
Old Queens saved for donation to a good cause (mates with known queenless colonies) = 2
Hives requeened = 6, 4 with caged queens, 1 as a nuc and 1 with a sealed caged queen because I'm not certain they're actually queenless.
Cells added to mini-nucs = 4
Cells to add to mini-nucs tomorrow morning = 4 ... simply ran out of time and was gasping for a beer ;-)

[Jon]

We put cells into 16 apideas yesterday evening and left them in a stack.
There was some impressive piping going on when I was over earlier this evening.
I also saw a queen returning to an apidea at about 5.15, probably just an orientation flight but worth checking it in a couple of days.
It is easy to tell which apideas have queens out flying due to the activity and nervousness of the workers at the entrance.
I know now to stop and watch for a minute or two and I often see a queen coming back from a flight.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Kitta
What type of swarm board did you have on ?

[fatshark]

Have you noticed how subdued mini-nucs are having had the laying queen removed when you visit them later that day to put in a new cell? At least mine are. It's almost as if they're thinking "Darn it ... now we'll have to start all over again ... I just can't be bothered, can you?".

[Bridget]

Hi Bridget
I wonder if you brought your own bees back before the start of October for feeding and treating for varroa prior to winter, or just left them with enough heather stores to see them through.
Any tips would be welcome thanks

Well I live right on the border of heather. In other words my bees fly a few hundred yards to the heather so I've no need to move them. However this means I need to use a varroa treatment that is not temperature reliant to treat for varroa as its end Sept at the earliest that I can treat them/ when there is no brood and temperatures have started to fall by then. I do feed them as well though I leave any stores in the brood box for them to use as well.

[EmsE]

Finally got the chance to check the bees after almost 2 weeks. One hive had a queen cell (suspercedure) with the queen beginning to work her way out. I was sure I've heard people on the forum mention 'pulling' a queen so decided to give her a hand. It was great to see the virgin queen emerge- something I didn't think I would ever see.

I will need to check the hives at the other sites, a couple of nucs to see if the new queen is laying yet, including the one I haven't got round to moving from the back garden on Sunday. Next week I'm going up to my sisters on the North coast and hope to get to play with her bees too. One colony has had the same queen for 4 years and hasn't made any queen cells since she hatched. It's a pity the bees wouldn't do well here as I could do with some non-swarmy genetics.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Kitta, when selecting a queen cell, part of the received wisdom here is to avoid any cells located near drone cells/comb. I always suspected the reason was to avoid what you describe. Sorry about your spot of wretched luck.

Thanks DB - I'll remember that. I wonder whether receiving all that royal jelly might have changed the drone's nature? Fortunately that was not a cell I either selected or needed. I saw the new queen.


Hi Kitta
What type of swarm board did you have on ?

I made it, DR. I think it is a Snelgrove but without the central ventilation bit that some Snelgroves have. It has doors above and below the board on three sides but in the end I only used one door.

I have these before and after photos of the tower. The board lies in front of the daughter hive in the second photo.

I just realised that another reason why I found it so impossible to check the queen's box was because I originally had the hive on double brood. That meant that the daughter's part consisted of two brood boxes and a super. I thought removing all of those boxes to check on the mother hive might cause too much mayhem in the daughter hive. Never again if I can help it.

Kitta

1634 1633

[marion.orca]

BOTTOMS UP !
Quick question here to see if anyone has an answer/explanation to this as it's really piqued my curiosity. At the hive inspection yesterday, along with a friend, we noticed the Queen with her head buried into one of the cells, which she did on 3 occasions - she didn't lay in them though. Is it a fanciful idea I have that she is checking them to see that they are up to her standards, prior to using them - or is there some other logical reason for this ? Thanks for the input - I find this intriguing.

[Dark Bee]

Checking the width - drone/worker or as you say checking they met her own private standards:) . If you want a job done well do it yourself!

[The Drone Ranger]

Thanks Bridget
Few hundred yards to the heather you lucky devil :)
These new MAQs strips might fit in with your beekeeping year ?

[The Drone Ranger]

I made it, DR. I think it is a Snelgrove but without the central ventilation bit that some Snelgroves have. It has doors above and below the board on three sides but in the end I only used one door.
I just realised that another reason why I found it so impossible to check the queen's box was because I originally had the hive on double brood. That meant that the daughter's part consisted of two brood boxes and a super. I thought removing all of those boxes to check on the mother hive might cause too much mayhem in the daughter hive. Never again if I can help it.

Kitta


Hi Kitta
You would need Arnie Swarz to manage that lot :)
I can understand why you might never want to do that again
I use Snelgroves a lot and have put come plans on the SBA website for making them

If you have a go next year I would make a few adjustments

First You really do need a good sized communication cut out in the board centre covered with mesh
Without that they regard themselves as two separate hives hence fighting etc

If you start the process with double brood box take an empty one to help with the sorting out but aim to have one box with all the brood
The second box you want the queen on a small patch of brood empty combs( if they are there some) food pollen etc is ok but plenty laying space and a couple foundation

The Queen's box goes on the floor then the QX
If you have two drawn supers you can put both on now but one is fine
The box with all the brood goes directly on the top

Wait 3 days while the bees sort themselves out

Go back lift off the top box and put in the Snegrove board -open one of the doors in the upper at the side to let bees fly from top box call it No1
On the 7th day since you split the bees go back and close the No1 door open the one below it (No2) the bees used to using it now go down through supers to join bees below the board.
You have to bleed off the bees or with several queen cells the first virgin might leave with the flyers
The top box needs an exit now so open a door on the other side of the hive call that one No3
While you are there have a look in the top box there should be queen cells started up there

12 days after you made the split go back and close Door No3 open the one directly underneath it lets call that No4 all flying bees join bottom box
Open the upper door at the rear of the box call that one No5 to let the bees out in the upper box
Now your new queen will be coming out of there and going to mate quite soon so pin something colourful and reasonable size to help her find the entrance

It's very important not to delay beyond Day 14 before you do the last operation and never take the top box down around this time (or you will lose new queen)

Usually 10 days more is enough for your young queen to fly and mate so I take quick peek on day 24 to see if there is any laying if not don't worry just wait a while

Now, down below the queen and her bees have been collecting honey laying etc so pick your time when there is a bit less flying going on from the top.
Take off the top box and the supers
If they are full pinch them if not rearrange them putting the full ones to the outsides sometimes just take the full ones from two supers and consolidate the rest into one super
Look in the bottom box fingers crossed no queen cells

Now depends how you want to go here
You can take away the bottom box as a separate hive.
You can remove the bottom queen and combine the bees (young queen, strong hive, heather ?)

The main thing to watch is that those bees in the top don't starve as you bleed off the bees
If that box at the beginning had lots of food combs fine but if it's all brood then you will need to feed them a little
Don't worry they are not storing anything in the supers but be careful not to trigger robbing by spills

There are lots of things I haven't mentioned here It's a bit like describing how to cross the road safely it's not hard but there are lots of possibilities


Looking at your tower Kitta I wonder how tall you would need to be to look in that top box :)
hope this long post helps (if you can get through it without falling asleep LoL!)

[marion.orca]

Thanks DB - I knew there would be a logical explanation to this - I've just never seen it before.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks for the detailed post, DR. It's very helpful.

I actually had your Snelgrove plan next to me when I made my boards. The doors are about 100mm but unlike your doors, mine swivel in the middle - so the entrances probably look smaller on the photos than they actually are. So you think that if I'd had a communication gap, they would have been less likely to fight when I separated the boxes? Don't you find it a problem to separate the boxes?


... On the 7th day since you split the bees .... While you are there have a look in the top box there should be queen cells started up there ...

I did not use the board in order to induce them to create queen cells, DR. The queen cells (or cups) were already there, which meant that I wasn't too sure about the timing. I try to follow Ian Craig's advice to use the first swarm cells and not to cut them down (except if I don't like the queen and that hasn't yet happened).

Having said 'never, ever' - I saw today that there is another hive that are starting swarming preparations. There are a few loaded cups, slightly elongated, and the queen has stopped laying. There is not really enough room for a horizontal AS, so I may just change my mind and try once more but this time, I think, I'll separate them well before the new queen hatches and move the hive somewhere else. I do want to be able to see what happens in the mother hive. I will also cut a hole in the board like yours.

Kitta

[Neils]

Spent today on a microscopy course at Dan's(occasional poster here). Not often you get an opportunity to examine both EFB and AFB up close and personal, plus get to make your own reference slides direct from the combs. Added bonus he let me freeze my ice packs again on what must have been the hottest day if the year so far.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Kitta
Once bees have started swarming preparations (particularly cells) a Snelgrove board is fairly useless
They are only good for preventing swarming before that stage arrives and getting a new queen safely started above the board
Snelgrove himself describes his "method 2" for circumstances where cells are found its not reliable though

The problem is if the bees have prepared for swarming they still act as one hive and as soon as a cell is sealed they will swarm from the top and bottom together
I would go for a normal split with about 3 feet between the boxes if you can
Your doors pivoting in the middle is a better idea, thanks I'll do that on my next lot :)
Here's a fun little video on the standard artificial swarm for anybody new to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQPQj_UhmMk

[Jon]

This document here (http://www.wbka.com/images/education/a012queencells.pdf) is the best I have seen with regard to taking action about queen cells.

[fatshark]

Don't do this at home ...
Busy requeening a lot of hives this weekend. One I suspected might have a queen in it but was I short of time (and short of anywhere else to leave the new queen) so I put the caged, mated Q in a JzBz sealed introduction cage hanging in the middle of the hive. Went back today and found a brood nest mostly full of nectar ... queenless OK? ... so took the cap off the cell so the new queen could get out in due course. Thought I'd better check through the rest of the hive and, two frames from the end, found a frame with a small circle of polished cells, half a dozen of which contained eggs. Damn. Went back and revealed the new Q in her cage and then set about finding the Q in the box ... remember it's approaching thirty centigrade and in full sun (for once). Found her, grabbed her and let her go just as she was about to enter a mailing cage ... Damn. She walked up my arm, across my veil and then flew off.

So now I have to repeat the entire procedure on Tuesday or Wednesday ... knowing my luck she'll find her way back and prove elusive again.

The only good thing was the cold shower at the end of the morning !

[The Drone Ranger]

Hot days and bee suits not a great combo
If I had pure AMM I would only need speedos and a hive tool :)

[fatshark]

Not a good image I'm afraid ... !

[Mellifera Crofter]

Hi Kitta
Once bees have started swarming preparations (particularly cells) a Snelgrove board is fairly useless
...
The problem is if the bees have prepared for swarming they still act as one hive and as soon as a cell is sealed they will swarm from the top and bottom together ...

Thanks DR - I did not know the bees will swarm from both top and bottom boxes (the mother and the daughter parts) ... But my board did not have a communication hole in the middle so would they still swarm from both boxes? Wouldn't that make them feel that they are in two separate hives?

Ian Craig creates a vertical artificial swarm using a board looking like a Snelgrove board but without a communication hole - which is what I tried to do. Lots of people helped me last year to get my head around all these opening and closing doors (here (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?761-Artificial-swarm-(Ian-Craig)&highlight=craig)) but I've only now put it into practice. Ian Craig leaves the tower united until the new queen is mated and laying - but that is the part that bothers me and I don't think I will repeat.

It's easier to open and close doors in a vertical AS than to carry an entire hive from one side of the mother hive to the other as in a horizontal one but next time I'll remove the top box before the new queen hatches - or just do an AS and not bother trying to fox flying bees.

I'll make an effort to find and read Snelgrove's book, DR.

Kitta

[drumgerry]

Hot days and bee suits not a great combo
If I had pure AMM I would only need speedos and a hive tool :)

Surely a man-kini and a bee brush would be far more fitting attire DR?!

[Dark Bee]

Hot days and bee suits not a great combo
If I had pure AMM I would only need speedos and a hive tool :)

There was a demonstration and get together at the GBBG breeding apiary recently. I was there but not at any time did I wear a veil, I never at any time felt in danger and the veil remained in the car all day. I might add that I was not the only person eschewing protection that day.

[The Drone Ranger]

Thanks DR - I did not know the bees will swarm from both top and bottom boxes (the mother and the daughter parts) ... But my board did not have a communication hole in the middle so would they still swarm from both boxes? Wouldn't that make them feel that they are in two separate hives?

Ian Craig creates a vertical artificial swarm using a board looking like a Snelgrove board but without a communication hole - which is what I tried to do.

Kitta

I haven't tried making a vertical split like that Kitta
It would save on equipment and moving the boxes around
There would be lots of drawbacks though as you point out.
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=snelgrove%2C%20l%20e%20&tn=swarming%20its%20control%20and%20prevention%20&n=100121503&cm_sp=mbc-_-ats-_-used
http://biblio.co.uk/search.php?author=L+E+Snelgrove&title=&keyisbn=&format=

I have collected a few of his books various editions
The old ones have the nicest paper

[The Drone Ranger]

There was a demonstration and get together at the GBBG breeding apiary recently. I was there but not at any time did I wear a veil, I never at any time felt in danger and the veil remained in the car all day. I might add that I was not the only person eschewing protection that day.

Most of mine are fine like that (but not all )
Sometimes you bungle something
Another time the bees can get nasty very quickly
I think the Mankini would be safer than speedos :)
I don't react much to stings these days but as a cautionary tale I was chatting with an old very experienced beekeeper in his 70's
His wife had been stung many many times over 25 or 30 years then out of the blue went into anaphylaxis
The hospital recommended no more bees for her full stop

[fatshark]

Beebase lists something like 150 apiaries within 10km of mine ... however much selective breeding I might hope to do there are always a load of rogue drones around and about. Consequently the BBwear Mankini is a non-starter here. For simple operations a smock top and veil is fine ... however, for setting up a Demaree of a large hive with 4 supers including shaking through the brood box to get rid of any early QC's it's "bath time" in the full suit, wellies and Marigolds. Hot as hell? Yes. But also safe and secure.

Also helps me shed a few pounds ;)

[The Drone Ranger]

Tomorrow I'm taking off supers lots of lifting carrying etc all while being boiled alive in a bee jacket.
An early start might help
It just occurred to me Vlad Dracul couldn't have been a beekeeper
therefore there are no beekeepers who are also vampires
Venn Diagram OO

[Jon]

Also helps me shed a few pounds ;)

£5 Observation smock, quiet bees and a bicycle works for me.
If you have aggressive bees, repeatedly running away from them likely keeps the BMI within acceptable limits.

[Mellifera Crofter]

... I have collected a few of his books various editions
The old ones have the nicest paper

Thanks for the links, DR. I'll get myself a copy.
Kitta

[Bumble]

I'll make an effort to find and read Snelgrove's book, DR.
Paperback at Waterstones, £7.95 delivered http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/l-e-+snelgrove/swarming3a+its+control+and+prevention/3386317/

[madasafish]

In this weather, no veil or suit.. I am not sure the neighbours would like a mankini... My visitors on Friday - aspirant beekeeping couple - in summer attire were suitably impressed. No smoke no protective clothing for any of us.. and they saw the queen (red). Bees just sat and looked at them.

For manipulations or bad weather, jacket and veil. And my nasty hive requires a veil and jacket at all times. (3rd Gen carnies) I'll requeen this year.

[drumgerry]

Got some visiting Apideas coming today for a queen cell each. Quite excited as this is the first time my grafts are getting distributed to the far corners of Strathspey. Had some fun yesterday getting the cells into roller cages (which I don't usually bother with). I thought it a better idea to use them than to open up today and get an unpleasant surprise in front of people who mistakenly think I know what I'm doing! The fun bit was trying to sneak up on a couple of workers to cage along with the cell in case she pops out and needs looked after. I'm sure you could have put the Benny Hill music to it!

[Jon]

I have 38 cells due to emerge tomorrow and they have been heading to various destinations since yesterday.
I always think there will be a load left over from a big batch but they seem to find takers.
I haven't even got all my own apideas charged yet but I did fill another 7 earlier from a mongrel swarm which took up residence in a bait hive in the garden at the start of June.

[drumgerry]

Just back in from loading another 8 Apideas (I have 19 now!). This last lot (although I planned to buy more anyway) were bought in a hurry from Paynes to take 8 more queens I have hatching this evening/overnight. I thought better of my plan mentioned in another post of hurrying my first batch of grafted queens through in order to free up my existing mininucs. I wonder if 19 will be enough for me! Maybe not!

Coolest thing ever tonight was a virgin queen hatching into my hand whilst I was giving the apideas their queen cells.

[Jon]

That's why the rollers are so useful.
I have 22 of my own filled now so only about 6 left empty.
Could do with more though!

I have 5 queens laying out of the first batch of 6 set out and have another 8 or 9 with virgins and 7 with cells.
very late getting started this year but things are well underway now.
We have over 50 apideas set out at the mating site.

[drumgerry]

I think I'm now a committed user of hair rollers Jon! I have seen the light! If I hadn't roller-ed them yesterday I'd have had hatched virgins wreaking havoc today.

Most of my first batch of grafts have just started laying in the last couple of days. Like you say - late but things are racing ahead now in this superb weather. PS - looking like 28C or so in Speyside tomorrow!

[Rosco]

Found some dead brood on the inspection tray of one of my hives this evening. Then immediately got panicked and checked the other two hives wearing the same gloves... Just touched the inspection trays, mind, but still. They were clear, before I touched them that is.

Is this chalkbrood? Should I be worried? There were a few dozen dead brood, this is the first time I have noticed anything untoward. I will do an inspection on saturday or sunday and assess the situation properly. Anything I can do to solve whatever is causing it?

Will I have spread it to my other hives? I will make some washing soda solution and clean the inspection boards tomorrow if it would help?

Any advice gratefully received!

16671668

Edit: Just to point out I am not proud of using the same gloves on all three inspection boards.. Momentary lapse as it is the first time I have been confronted with a problem like this!

[The Drone Ranger]

Looks like chalkbrood Rosco
It won't spread to your other hives
Wear different gloves the disposable kind for each hive
don't chuck the mummies on the ground beside the hive
stop bees getting access to inspection trays

Feeding sugar syrup can help stop it getting worse
Possibly because the bees fill the empty cells with syrup
Its hard to eliminate
In bad cases you can brush all the bees into another box with new foundation
Then feed them thin 1:1 syrup till they get some comb drawn out

It often is caused by stress has the hive been split recently or is it empty of stores ?

[Rosco]

Thanks for the swift response! The bees are a swarm I received on 6 June and they have plenty of capped stores (I peered down through the clear crownboard tonight to double check this). I took the feeder off for the first time about a week ago due to the onset of this nice weather, and there have been loads flying, by far my most active hive.

They are on brood and a half and still have foundation to draw at the moment.

I will assess the situation during my weekend inspection. Hopefully it isn't as bad as it looks..!

Thanks again, The Drone Ranger. What a great forum this is!

[Jon]

A lot of people are commenting that chalkbrood is worse than usual this year, probably due to the cold wet spring. I would expect the situation to improve with this better weather but chalklbrood has a genetic component and if you have a persistent bad case the only answer is to change the queen.

[drumgerry]

And the number of mummies you have there Rosco wouldn't be a cause for concern for me. I have seen cases where there are frames of brood with just about every other cell with a mummified larva inside. Horrible to see! Requeening plus shook swarm the best recourse in those instances.

[Rosco]

Thanks, folks. I will monitor the situation and take action if it becomes necessary. I do hope that it will sort itself out, as they have taken long enough to draw the comb they are on already!

In other news, I think today is the busiest I have seen that particular hive. More foragers going in and out than ever, hopefully this weather will help it build up well. My other hives are busy too. The brambles in my garden are being well worked by honey bees (not necessarily mine), bumbles, and the odd wasp and hoverfly. Saw one honey bee gathering pollen from the brambles and the rest look like they are taking nectar.

I have deliberately let such plants as brambles and rosebay willowherb take over areas of my garden, in order to help the bees as much as possible. Haven't seen any bees on the rosebay willowherb yet this year though. Perhaps conditions arent right, or they have an easier time working the brambles.

[The Drone Ranger]

I have deliberately let such plants as brambles and rosebay willowherb take over areas of my garden, in order to help the bees

That's been my excuse as well :)

[GRIZZLY]

That's been my excuse as well :)

Hi DR, I use the " wild flower meadow - beneficial to bees " line.
Works a treat

[Jon]

Me too.
13 years at this address and have not cut the grass yet.
No way can I use the word lawn.

[The Drone Ranger]

Today was a tough beekeeping task
Hive No10 the misery maker my worst behaved hive
In an earlier episode I ran the gauntlet and got them split over a Snelgrove
The top box had a queen cell from a much better hive introduced to replace their own
Queen hatched big nice black and is now laying

Today's tasks
Get into bottom box where the wild maniacs live
Fend off the upper box bees who are not yet daughters of the new queen
Take the supers from between the boxes for this its the full monty smoker, smock, bee trouse

Both boxes moved to new stands to get all flying bees back to home position
Bees brushed off supers stinging begins
The tally is both ankles, both wrists, both thumbs, both palms one ear and top of head
They are not nice at all they brought in the honey and now its requeening time
Was it worth the pain --absolutely not
They were a bit unruly in May now they are mental

[Jon]

That is pretty near the worst task in beekeeping.
Every now and then I get suckered into helping someone deal with a colony like that.
The scary thing is that some people end up with bees like that in a city garden
I bet you that is something local which hybridised with Carnica
The viciousness of the AMM * Carnica cross has been well documented.

[The Drone Ranger]

You know Jon I always had it in mind to get them requeened
The upper box was no problem to do over the Snelgrove
But I was being greedy trying to use them for honey and leaving the old queen below
Next time its route1 the earliest possible requeen and take out the bad queen

[Jon]

It is a nightmare when you have a colony like that.
The queen needs to go under the thumb asap.
It is hard to enjoy your beekeeping when you are taking so many stings.

[fatshark]

Nice one DR ... you're a brave man using a brush on psycho bees. A surefire to send them completely postal.
I guess from your account you didn't take the opportunity to go through the packed and, er, agitated bottom box to find the source of the problem ... and squash her. I do hope there is no drone brood in that box!

[Hoomin_erra]

BLOODY BEES!!!!!!! Who'd have em...........

Opened up my hives yesterday.

2 massive hives, am gonna have to consider whether to AS, or double up brood boxes.

The small one i swear is actually smaller. I think it's being robbed blind by the others. Queen present, as is brood and fresh eggs, pollen and honey.Top feeder.

Medium hive, i think is being robbed too, as not much growth, and no queen found. But i found one charged queen cell. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BLOODY SUPER!!!!!! And no, the queen isn't in the super. This was the only cell in the whole super with an egg.

Think i might combine the med and small hives. Would the paper method work with the weaker on top? And what would i do with the super? Right on top, or in the middle under the paper. And do i remove the QC in the super? First time i have seen this.

[The Drone Ranger]

Nice one DR ... you're a brave man using a brush on psycho bees. A surefire to send them completely postal.
I guess from your account you didn't take the opportunity to go through the packed and, er, agitated bottom box to find the source of the problem ... and squash her. I do hope there is no drone brood in that box!
Having a tally of 25 or 30 stings I have settled for having the box she is in on a new stand
Because the flying bees are back at the original site and there are less bees to hide among I will find her now
Once the replacement queen is in, for a while, all the brood that hatches and lasts for the next 6 weeks will still be mad
They were diving into the smoker committing Hari Cari
Don't mention the drones at least there were no big blocks like in some hives

[gavin]

Think yourself lucky that you have a couple of powerful ones, HE. Robbing? Is there any kind of fuss at the entrance? Bees with a furtive look about them? Dowsing bees at the entrance with flour can reveal where they're coming from. Always a fun thing to do. Reducing the entrance to one bee-way or taking the weak one(s) away might be a cure. Or it could be that the slow build-up just means there isn't much forage where you are at the moment. Bell heather looks good in the hills around here, but is it damp enough for a flow?



Think i might combine the med and small hives. Would the paper method work with the weaker on top? And what would i do with the super? Right on top, or in the middle under the paper. And do i remove the QC in the super? First time i have seen this.

Yes, I'd do paper and the weak one over the super of the other. Super bees are less likely to fight. Shuffle the frames down after a week.

I'd bet that the egg in the cell in the super came from a worker. There are reports though of strange things like eggs presented to queenless colonies on straws giving rise to patches of worker brood and Q cells.

[The Drone Ranger]

It's always hard to know the best way to go
Without seeing them you are best to trust your own judgement but you might consider :-
On the small hive narrow the entrance to a couple of bee spaces stand around and watch for robbers
On the one with the queen cell in the super you haven't spotted the queen but I don't think they would swarm on the strength of that one cell
If after another look for her I still didn't spot her
I would be inclined to take a frame of eggs and young larva from the strong one and put it in there to see if they make cells
Plenty space on the strong hive is best so a second brood box with big spacers each side on both the bottom and top boxes
That should give you sixteen frames with all the foundation in the top where they will draw it out
There will be better ways I'm sure and you probably have a knowledge of your own bees that can't be second guessed

Typing too slow :)

[fatshark]

Ah Ha! Brood in supers ... I have a colony with a laying queen in the bottom box and the - often seen - slight arc of unfilled cells in the super immediately above the QE. In this colony there was a 2" patch of drone brood, some capped, some already emerged, on the two central frames. I can't draw any conclusions about the sex of the brood as I use drone brood foundation in the supers. I'm not sure whether it was laying workers (pattern too tight?), eggs being moved or if the queen went through a slim phase and slipped upstairs for a day. Odd.

[Hoomin_erra]

Think yourself lucky that you have a couple of powerful ones, HE. Robbing? Is there any kind of fuss at the entrance? Bees with a furtive look about them? Dowsing bees at the entrance with flour can reveal where they're coming from. Always a fun thing to do. Reducing the entrance to one bee-way or taking the weak one(s) away might be a cure. Or it could be that the slow build-up just means there isn't much forage where you are at the moment. Bell heather looks good in the hills around here, but is it damp enough for a flow?


Yes, I'd do paper and the weak one over the super of the other. Super bees are less likely to fight. Shuffle the frames down after a week.

I'd bet that the egg in the cell in the super came from a worker. There are reports though of strange things like eggs presented to queenless colonies on straws giving rise to patches of worker brood and Q cells.


Gavin, Loads of forage, Broom, Gorse, Clover, and Bell Heather. A lot of the bees are coming back with a pale yellow almost white pollen. Others are coming back looking like they have just been through a can of yellow spray.Re: robbing, haven't noticed much, all hives have been reduced to a 2 inch opening, but i have seen loads of dead curled up bees in front of the 2 smaller hives. And have seen bumbles in and out of the small hive.

DR, i'll give another look for the missing queen just in case i missed her. Pretty sure i saw eggs, so maybe i'll lose the cell in the super, and hopefully they will make a QC in the brood. Why the big spacers on the large colony? Reasoning?

Gavin, on the merging, if the smaller colony is about 5 foot from the larger, will that present an issue with the 3 foot, 3 mile rule? Or will the containment during the merge reorient them? Or do i just move both hives 2.5 foot to a new location?

[The Drone Ranger]

There have been some reports of egg moving from lots of sources
There is always the possibility of unusual behavior each hive is individual

[The Drone Ranger]

DR, i'll give another look for the missing queen just in case i missed her. Pretty sure i saw eggs, so maybe i'll lose the cell in the super, and hopefully they will make a QC in the brood. Why the big spacers on the large colony? Reasoning?


Hi Hoomin_era
sorry I had assumed there was no laying going on in the one with the queen cell
Even strong hives take a while to draw out foundation
If the foundation is directly over the broodnest they will get on with the job with enthusiasm
They like going up more than sideways so its good to take advantage

If you use big spacers and 16 frames they have a narrower area to focus on presuming the bottom has 11 drawn frames you are only adding 5 frames of foundation right where they like it

[gavin]

Putting the smaller above the medium on its site (once they're in at night) would help reduce bees losing themselves back at the old site but I wouldn't guarantee that it will stop all of it. I don't remember a big problem when I've done this sort of thing, but then it was a few years ago. Merging (in the day) at a position between the two does sound a better option.

[Black Comb]

DR
No need to get ankles stung. Assuming you have a full bee suit, just put the whole suit leg over the top of your wellies and zip tight.
I have a colony like this at the moment, I wear a thin fleece under my bee suit to stop them stinging through onto my back. Very hot but worth it.
Colonies like this are major motivators to begin queen rearing.

[The Drone Ranger]

DR
No need to get ankles stung. Assuming you have a full bee suit, just put the whole suit leg over the top of your wellies and zip tight.
I have a colony like this at the moment, I wear a thin fleece under my bee suit to stop them stinging through onto my back. Very hot but worth it.
Colonies like this are major motivators to begin queen rearing.

I'm with you 100% Black Comb

I just wore my usual boots not wellies that was a bad mistake
Do any beesuits actually stop determined attackers my BB wear and Maisemore Apiary ones don't
Most annoying was being stung in the ears and head should have had a hat under the suit as well :)

[Hoomin_erra]

Well, i figured out what the pale almost white pollen is that the girls were bringing in.

It's Dock Weed. They are loving it. Pity i hate it and it has overgrown my garden, and it has to go.

[Jon]

The balsam is flowering as well and I am seeing bees with the typical white pollen mark on the back.

[biggus]

I had a swarm emerge and then return to its parent hive without settling.

Then I found a decent size queen with about 100 followers a few yards from the hive. I thought perhaps she had crashed into the washing on the line.

I borrowed a brood frame from the parent hive and used it to try and lure her and her followers into a box of foundation placed over the top of them, with a gap of course.

It didn't seem to work as when I tried to use this to initiate an AS the bees wouldn't enter. It was hot here, over 80 farenheit. Despite my best efforts to cool the box it might have got too hot in the direct sunshine. Or the different style of landing board might have discouraged the bees from entering.

I despaired and had a look inside the new box and there was no sign of the queen that I thought I had had lured into it. I was poorly equipped and therefore hot and stressed and my improvised bee suit took a long time to put on so she had already moved once in the time that it took to catch her, so maybe she flew away or went home while my back was turned.

Hoping that I hadn't baked the larvae on the donated frame, I had to open up the parent box, put the frame back in, and returned the parent hive to its original position.

And then I spotted a queen on the grass right in front of the hive!

By the time she crawled up high enough for me to catch her the parent hive had started roaring, having been perfectly content during the four hours or so that I had been chasing that other queen around the garden.

So I am a bit baffled as to what has just happened? Was it a swarm, or was it a supersedure with swarmlike behaviour thrown in - two queens in one swarm that then decided to go home? Or something else?

If the first queen I found on the lawn was the chosen queen, why did so few followers stay with her when she landed on the grass? Although she looked nice and big in the glimpses I got, she had a very small group of followers, maybe a tennis ball's worth at most.

I didn't study to see if they were trying to ball her to death, but the grass was rough and not very short so she could hide easily, and evidently she succeeded in flying a few yards further away from the parent hive while I was preparing to catch her.

There were eggs in the parent hive, so this could have been a primary swarm, i suppose.

There was only roaring after the second queen turned up on the grass in front of her hive, presumably because she fell of part of the hive while I had it open to reinstate the brood frame.

I am sorry to have lost a queen, as I would have liked to split my colony... but I wish I could tell which queen I had lost. If only I could learn to catch the buggers I could learn to mark them too.

If the colony was still in swarm mode, with plenty of cells waiting to emerge, etc would it have been so upset when the second queen fell on the grass?

Will they try to swarm again tomorrow? With my an old army jacket, jeans and rubber gloves, i could only bear to inspect about 40% of the frames in the heat. Heard no piping though.

[Dark Bee]

Have your bees swarmed earlier, perhaps a week or two ago? i.e.Has there been a sudden reduction in the number of bees flying about or in the hive?
Was your hive situated in an exceptionally hot location?

[The Drone Ranger]

Crickey Biggus you have had a time of it :)

At least when it comes to catching them and marking I would get these
1683 queen catcher
1684 marking cage
1686 marking pen
1687 have to wait till she turns round :)

[Jon]

We found a load of laying queens in the apideas at the association apiary tonight. About 15-20.
More in the blog (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/entry.php?645-Monday-night-queen-rearing-group).

[gavin]

Couple of them, more or less ....

http://static.flickr.com/31/51075027_53736347ca.jpg

and the Posca pen. That'll do me!

[gavin]

Well, Biggus, if the first queen you found was large she couldn't be a virgin and would have to be an established queen. If the second was smaller she could have been a supersedure virgin out on a mating flight - and the supersedure had triggered the swarm? I suspect this is a puzzle that will never be fully explained ....

[The Drone Ranger]

That'll do me!

Hey each to his own :)
I'll pass on coating the old girl in sweaty finger prints
I used the crown of thorns for years
I can catch them by the wings but I like the gadgets
It's a very gentle marking procedure which can take as long as you like
Do you remember humbrol paint and a matchstick wouldn't want to go back there now :)

[Jon]

Biggus.
Did your hive have a clipped queen?
When a swarm emerges with a clipped queen it falls in front of the hive.
Are you sure you saw two different queens or could you have seen the same queen twice.
Was the box not full of queen cells?

To be honest I am totally confused as to what you were trying to do.

I don't understand this at all.


I borrowed a brood frame from the parent hive and used it to try and lure her and her followers into a box of foundation placed over the top of them, with a gap of course.

It didn't seem to work as when I tried to use this to initiate an AS the bees wouldn't enter.

[Dark Bee]

Biggus.
Did your hive have a clipped queen?
When a swarm emerges with a clipped queen it falls in front of the hive.
Are you sure you saw two different queens or could you have seen the same queen twice.
Was the box not full of queen cells?

To be honest I am totally confused as to what you were trying to do.

I don't understand this at all.

I assumed that if Q. was not marked she was not clipped either. A curious situation indeed, there are inconsistencies in the account of what allegedly happened, perhaps Biggus would be kind enough to elaborate.

[Jon]

A mark can wear off

[The Drone Ranger]

The queen Biggus tried to lure into a bait hive disappeared
It was some time later when the queen was spotted near the hive entrance
A swarm? had issued previously and returned
I'm guessing a new queen orienting or mating flights
The original queen was not marked or clipped
This means we can't be sure if that queen at the entrance was her or not
Supersedure could fit the bill if the old girl was pushed out
or the new queen was at both locations on the way home to the hive
Even taking a queen out in a cage the bees find her and 100 or so bees gather round so that's not a swarm not even a cast
Till the hive has been inspected for queen cells it's all guess work :)

[Dark Bee]

A mark can wear off

Indeed it can or be removed by her minions. :cool:
However if Biggus had done the marking, I think neither of the above would have happened! :)

[lindsay s]

I went through the hives early this evening; one colony is still trying to swarm and the rest are behaving themselves. There’s a good flow on at the moment and the bees are busy dumping the nectar straight into their brood nests. Any spare cell is getting filled up pretty fast and I ‘m hoping they will start moving it upstairs soon. All of my hives have plenty of room in their supers and it will be another 5 to 6 weeks before they are cleared. It’s too soon to tell if it’s going to be a good season but I’m keeping my fingers crossed. Does anyone out there get a good crop from the soft fruits or is everything now grown in Polly tunnels?

[Trog]

We get a good crop from the soft fruit in terms of honey ... but the blackbirds get the best of the berries :(

Good to hear things are going well on Orkney.

[The Drone Ranger]

I went through the hives early this evening; one colony is still trying to swarm and the rest are behaving themselves. There’s a good flow on at the moment and the bees are busy dumping the nectar straight into their brood nests. Any spare cell is getting filled up pretty fast and I ‘m hoping they will start moving it upstairs soon. All of my hives have plenty of room in their supers and it will be another 5 to 6 weeks before they are cleared. It’s too soon to tell if it’s going to be a good season but I’m keeping my fingers crossed. Does anyone out there get a good crop from the soft fruits or is everything now grown in Polly tunnels?
http://www.orkneywine.co.uk/ourwines.htm
all these fruits are in the open Lindsay

[fatshark]

Here in the most southerly of the Scottish Borders we've been having some high temperatures - high 20's by 11am with the temperature tonight at 9pm of over 23 C. Working in a beesuit is not comfortable. Although we've not had rain for days there is a fantastic flow on so supers are in short supply ... or in my case only available because I've scrounged some from a friend.

Tonight I requeened a hive that swarmed on Sunday/Monday ... the Q was clipped but looked damaged so she was despatched. The swarm was added back to the original hive. Removing five near full supers to add a new caged queen and reassembling the lot was hard work. I'll have to do the same thing to release her on Thursday or Friday (it's a very strong hive and the last available Q until the next lot of grafts come out from the mating nucs, so I want her to be safely accepted) when it's predicted to be even hotter.

The nectar is coming in so fast that few frames are fully sealed - the end of the field beans and the start of rosebay I think. The sound of the colonies working late in the evening is fantastic.

So ... heaven in terms of honey and well-tempered bees (and the best queen mating conditions I've ever seen - consistently hot, light/no winds) ... but very hard work :)

[The Drone Ranger]

Here in the most southerly of the Scottish Borders we've been having some high temperatures - high 20's by 11am with the temperature tonight at 9pm of over 23 C. Working in a beesuit is not comfortable. Although we've not had rain for days there is a fantastic flow on so supers are in short supply ... or in my case only available because I've scrounged some from a friend.

Tonight I requeened a hive that swarmed on Sunday/Monday ... the Q was clipped but looked damaged so she was despatched. The swarm was added back to the original hive. Removing five near full supers to add a new caged queen and reassembling the lot was hard work. I'll have to do the same thing to release her on Thursday or Friday (it's a very strong hive and the last available Q until the next lot of grafts come out from the mating nucs, so I want her to be safely accepted) when it's predicted to be even hotter.

The nectar is coming in so fast that few frames are fully sealed - the end of the field beans and the start of rosebay I think. The sound of the colonies working late in the evening is fantastic.

So ... heaven in terms of honey and well-tempered bees (and the best queen mating conditions I've ever seen - consistently hot, light/no winds) ... but very hard work :)
Hope you either have a strong arm or an electric extractor :)

[lindsay s]

There is no large scale growing of soft fruits in my area D R. Anything the bees come across will be in private gardens. There are a few semi commercial growers with Polly tunnels but that’s only on a very small scale. I believe that soft fruit growing is big business in Angus D R and I’m wondering if it benefits the beekeepers in your area.

[Bridget]

The nectar is coming in so fast that few frames are fully sealed -

Ah so that's what happens when there is a good flow one. I wondered why there was so much unsealed -- is it because they just don't have time to seal it?💡

[Bridget]

Following on to my post above - I have a super almost full apart from an end frame and I was going to add a super but held back as I thought I should wait until most of it was capped ( none of it is). I'll have another look today and reevaluate in light of the above.



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[Trog]

Here in the most southerly of the Scottish Borders we've been having some high temperatures - high 20's by 11am with the temperature tonight at 9pm of over 23 C. Working in a beesuit is not comfortable. Although we've not had rain for days there is a fantastic flow on so supers are in short supply ... or in my case only available because I've scrounged some from a friend.

Tonight I requeened a hive that swarmed on Sunday/Monday ... the Q was clipped but looked damaged so she was despatched. The swarm was added back to the original hive. Removing five near full supers to add a new caged queen and reassembling the lot was hard work. I'll have to do the same thing to release her on Thursday or Friday (it's a very strong hive and the last available Q until the next lot of grafts come out from the mating nucs, so I want her to be safely accepted) when it's predicted to be even hotter.

The nectar is coming in so fast that few frames are fully sealed - the end of the field beans and the start of rosebay I think. The sound of the colonies working late in the evening is fantastic.

So ... heaven in terms of honey and well-tempered bees (and the best queen mating conditions I've ever seen - consistently hot, light/no winds) ... but very hard work :)

You were lucky ... cue well-known sketch ... no voracious midges to cope with :)

[chris]

held back as I thought I should wait until most of it was capped ( none of it is).


Normally the bees won't cap a full cell of honey until the humidity level is correct. Are they busy fanning? I'd add another super straight away- get the nectar in while they can!!

[Bridget]

Thanks Chris. Will do



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[biggus]

Thanks Drone Ranger, Gavin et al. Moral support much appreciated.

The queen was indeed never marked... which would have helped in this situation.

I lack the experience to credibly distinguish between the size of a virgin queen and the size of a mature queen thinned down for swarming, and lacking a queen cage (left at my other so-called apiary) I was too timid to attempt to catch the first queen for fear of mishandling her while getting a decent look. I regret that now.

The main reason I think that the queen in front of the hive was not the queen I found a few yards away is that after the swarm returned the hive went quiet and calm again very quickly. i.e was not acting queenless, while all the time there was queen out on the grass a few yards away.

When there was a queen in front of the hive, however, the whole place was in uproar, so I think I might have left her behind off the lid of the hive while I was returning the brood comb that I had used earlier to try and start an AS with the other queen.

The reason for attempting this (my first) artificial swarm, was because seeing that the bees had attempted to swarm and returned, I felt they might not fully have got it out of their system, and since I already thought I had caught the queen (off the lawn), it seemed like a good idea to help them get the job done so we could all move on with their lives, so to speak.

I hope that was a reasonably logical response to the situation, but happy to be put right if my plan was misbegotten.

Update: I don't think there has been a swarm since the one that aborted, but I have been too busy elsewhere to either keep watch or do a frame by frame exam. Foraging enthusiastic though, and I am quite quite excited about the prospect of a decent crop.

I also have a colony of bees in a shed on Ashdown Forest, in my back garden. They have been going gangbusters all year on what is now a double brood. Have just realised that they are into a big flow, probably from the nearby limes which are humming audibly. The top brood box has no young brood in it (some capped of both sexes) and is full wall to wall with ripening honey.

They also have a plethora of queen cells.

I need to decide what to do for a) urgent swarm management and b) to add storage space for nectar

Proper beekeepers may be dismayed to know that i chickened out of checking the state of the bottom box today, so I don't know if there is still egg laying activity or if I the colony is in an interregnum.

As a third year beekeeper I am undergoing a backlash against my own earlier tendencies to inspect too much or for the wrong reasons. I might have a look in the bottom box tomorrow after I have worked out a plan or two and perhaps got a spare brood box kitted out for swarm control purposes. In an emergency I can always take down one of my bait hives (old woodwormy WBC boxes with old drony super combs in them).

[fatshark]

You were lucky ... cue well-known sketch ... no voracious midges to cope with :)

Do beesuits protect from midges? In the 12 years I lived there they seemed to get through just about all defences ... I regularly had to give up fishing because of the no see 'ums.

[fatshark]

I also have a colony of bees in a shed on Ashdown Forest, in my back garden. They have been going gangbusters all year on what is now a double brood. Have just realised that they are into a big flow, probably from the nearby limes which are humming audibly. The top brood box has no young brood in it (some capped of both sexes) and is full wall to wall with ripening honey.

They also have a plethora of queen cells.

I need to decide what to do for a) urgent swarm management and b) to add storage space for nectar

Proper beekeepers may be dismayed to know that i chickened out of checking the state of the bottom box today, so I don't know if there is still egg laying activity or if I the colony is in an interregnum.

As a third year beekeeper I am undergoing a backlash against my own earlier tendencies to inspect too much or for the wrong reasons. I might have a look in the bottom box tomorrow after I have worked out a plan or two and perhaps got a spare brood box kitted out for swarm control purposes. In an emergency I can always take down one of my bait hives (old woodwormy WBC boxes with old drony super combs in them).

I would suspect the queen has gone, especially if some of the QCs are sealed. You might be able to remove brood frames of stores for later, rearrange the box into a single one containing sealed and unsealed brood and leave a single open, charged QC. Alternatively, if they're queenright you could set up a Demaree ... put the Q on one frame of unsealed brood in the bottom box with foundation, QE then the supers (and if there aren't any, get some on), with the rest of the brood on top. Save the stores for feeding back later. Knock off all the QC's and go back in a few days and check no more have been made. You might need to release drones from the top box as well. That way they keep bringing in the nectar, have more space to lay, move onto fresh comb and everyone is happy.

BTW I would reckon the main difference between a virgin and a skinny mature girl is "skittishness". Bees are again a metaphor for life ...

[gavin]

Do beesuits protect from midges?

Bee suits themselves probably do but the usual veils don't! I have first hand experience of this in Wester Ross where the midgies may even be worse than on Mull! What a good idea, I thought, take a couple of veils then I'll be able to fill both hands whilst cooking the evening meal outside with the family safely zipped up in the tent. I can confirm that bee veils and midgies are like chocolate teapots and hot tea. Worse even. The veil seems to concentrate them *inside*.