todays news

[GRIZZLY]

Such mindless behaviour.

[The Drone Ranger]

If you are buying spirits for Xmas and new year you might want to body swerve Tesco
Checked the price of two things, an Indian Gin and A Swedish Vodka £3.00 more per bottle in Tesco than Asda for the same thing
Horse sense (pie) dictates avoid spending £36 Tesco rather than £30 Asda (20 % difference)
No wonder the B's are dissapearing

That aside why did the treatment kill the bees ?

[busybeephilip]

looks like wed will be a big wind

Looks like west coast scotland will be getting hit today around 12pm - more flying hives !

[The Drone Ranger]

Yes big wind outside at the moment the direction isn't too bad though
The gusts are the worrying thing
Quite fierce

[fatshark]

Perfect weather for OA vaporisation ... went round all my colonies. Anything that leaked out got whisked away to Finland PDQ.

[Emma]

Terrible weather for beekeeping... and yet someone kindly whisked round my apiary and poured OA vapour into all my hives. Thanks, Fatshark!

[gavin]

Terrible weather for beekeeping... and yet someone kindly whisked round my apiary and poured OA vapour into all my hives. Thanks, Fatshark!

He's a good sort, that fatshark ;)

Today wouldn't be the day to try trickling unless you placed the hives on their sides first.

[gavin]

Yes big wind outside at the moment the direction isn't too bad though
The gusts are the worrying thing
Quite fierce

Sat in Vera the Van briefly on returning from an errand and I started to wonder if Volkswagen Transporters blow over in gales. It was certainly shoogling enthusiastically. Perhaps it isn't wise to park her side-on to the gale at the usual spot perched above the Tay with an uninterrupted view across to Thorne at Newburgh over 10km away.

Maybe I need a couple of concrete blocks on the roof?!

[Emma]

Today wouldn't be the day to try trickling unless you placed the hives on their sides first.

Genius! I'll do that next time ;)

[madasafish]

If you are buying spirits for Xmas and new year you might want to body swerve Tesco
Checked the price of two things, an Indian Gin and A Swedish Vodka £3.00 more per bottle in Tesco than Asda for the same thing
Horse sense (pie) dictates avoid spending £36 Tesco rather than £30 Asda (20 % difference)
No wonder the B's are dissapearing

That aside why did the treatment kill the bees ?

Try http://tinyurl.com/q4d7cm4 for price comparisons on supermarkets..

[The Drone Ranger]

Try http://tinyurl.com/q4d7cm4 for price comparisons on supermarkets..

Thanks madasafish

I could have saved a quid on the Finlandia Vodka at Sainsbury amazingly enough
The Bombay Sapphire Gin was best at Asda
Jose Cuervo Especial Gold Tequila was same price Asda/Tesco
The Margarita was only really in Asda
Didn't check the wine or mixers (yet)


Furious wasted a quid
Thats my new years resolution sorted
To check the comparison site for everything :)

[Jon]

Jose Cuervo Especial Gold Tequila was same price Asda/Tesco

That's the only spirit I ever really took a shine to!
Best bought in the corner shop in Mexico rather than Asda.

[gavin]

All round to DR's house for a wee snifter on Christmas Eve!

[madasafish]

Thanks madasafish

I could have saved a quid on the Finlandia Vodka at Sainsbury amazingly enough
The Bombay Sapphire Gin was best at Asda
Jose Cuervo Especial Gold Tequila was same price Asda/Tesco
The Margarita was only really in Asda
Didn't check the wine or mixers (yet)


Furious wasted a quid
Thats my new years resolution sorted
To check the comparison site for everything :)

Did I tell you I was on commission? :-)

[The Drone Ranger]

All round to DR's house for a wee snifter on Christmas Eve!

Lol
You'll be lucky

[Jon]

You'll be lucky...to make it home by the end of January

[fatshark]

Nothing beats getting a dodgy tattoo after a few glasses of gin/vodka/tequila (or whatever DR has left after Gavin et al., descend on Christmas Eve). Has anyone got one of these lurking under their beesuit?
2496
Since all the beekeepers I know have a full head of luxuriant hair (haven't I?) anyone of them could be hiding one of these underneath ...
2497
That'll teach me to search for 'honeybee image' when preparing a talk :eek:

[GRIZZLY]

Anyone got any good ideas for taming fondant blocks ? I'm finding it a right pain - it's so sticky and difficult t cut into manageable pieces,

[gavin]

When it is cold it is hard to deal with. Leave it at room temperature for a day and clean the knife from time to time in warm water. I leave the blue bag on (bakers fondant) to make handling easier.

[fatshark]

Biggest serrated breadknife you can get your hands on.
Clingfilm on opposing faces to stop it fusing back together again.
And everything Gavin suggests.
Of course ;)

PS Mind you don't cut any extremities off

[EK.Bee]

Someone recently was telling me about a commercial bee farmer who used a stainless steel spade to cut fondant
I haven't tried this personally
I was going to try a cheese wire last year but misplaced it
washing up gloves or blue nitrile gloves stop things getting too nessy

[Pete L]

Warming the hard fondant in a microwave for a few seconds will soften it, obviously not a full block unless you happen to have a large microwave, but cut the hard way in half, then microwave, makes cutting or molding the rest into smaller pieces very easy.

[Bumble]

I use an uncapping knife to cut large blocks and re-wrap with the blue polythene. For small pieces to go into takeaway containers I just pull handfulls of fondant apart and drop it into the box, it levels out in no time. I tried wearing gloves once, but the gloves stuck themselves together and made it a million times worse.

[wee willy]

I make fondant 1 kilo sugar 300 mls water . Kneaded then slipped into resealable freezer bags !
With washed and dried hands you can knead/ shape/ store and feed with minimum fuss!


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[Calluna4u]

Someone recently was telling me about a commercial bee farmer who used a stainless steel spade to cut fondant
I haven't tried this personally
I was going to try a cheese wire last year but misplaced it
washing up gloves or blue nitrile gloves stop things getting too nessy

Might have been me.

The spade is not stainless, just new or even very clean.

Couple of things to take note of.

1. If the fondant is a bit hard you can drop the block from height onto a stone or concrete floor and the shock waves passing through the block immediately soften it.
2. As stated elsewhere, leave the blue wrapper on, and score it all round with a sharp knife on the lines you wish to make the cuts. (Not essential, just makes it easier)
3. Keep the spade in a bucket of hot water.
4. Cut the fondant with the spade. It goes through it like butter.
5. Bag the pieces in HD poly bags.

Ready to go out.

Takes two men a couple of hours (depends on any other difficulties) to cut and bag about a tonne. Cheap carrier bags are best, if the bags are a little tight for size they are far slower to use as the cut face sticks to the bag.

[prakel]

Final instalment of the apiary rents for 2015 dropped off, always a satisfying moment but I doubt that it'll seem like the blink of an eye before we're dropping off our first installment for 2016 at easter time.

251325142515

....and plenty of honey too!!

[gavin]

Lovely work, and nice to see your new avatar in more detail. The wax bowl is interesting, haven't seen that before.

I was out this afternoon (in heavy sleet) delivering my rents too. Just the usual sticky stuff, ling, bell and some of that highly prized local lime honey.

[prakel]

Lovely sunny afternoon here. Spent some time with one farmer discussing the masses of daffodils which are already showing yellow.

[fatshark]

Nice Christmas trees prakel. I too was out delivering bottled gifts - I'm running out of everything other than the rather odd flavoured clear stuff. That's been an add on ... "and see whether you like this as well ... a bit of an acquired taste"

Happy Christmas all.

[prakel]

Nice Christmas trees prakel


Lovely work, and nice to see your new avatar in more detail. The wax bowl is interesting, haven't seen that before.

They all originate from a German company 'Hobby Kreation'. We bought a lot when Thornes discontinued the range and have continued to add direct from the manufacturer. Very high quality moulds and a superb range.

To be honest we don't get enough use out of them but it's nice to have a wide choice of 'extras' when it comes to distributing the apiary rents; we always do two a year plus the odd jar or comb through the summer. As of 2016 I've decided to add a third 'harvest' installment around michaelmas too. I see paying the rents as an ongoing bonding process where we have chance to speak to the landowners who we might otherwise not see all year. Calculated, but enjoyable :).

[fatshark]

Just in case anyone is planning on a winter frame building binge (and have a nail gun) ... Amazon have a "Lightning Deal" on a mixed box of Tacwise nails (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000X2GM84) that are in suitable sizes. 4000 in total (15-30mm) for a fiver. Usual price is £8-10 from the same source.

[gavin]

Definitely a great price. My frame building is with Tacwise 180/20mm nails which are not in that pack. They're not in the Lightning deals but still available on Amazon via other retailers at £3.80 per 1000 which is still a good deal compared to rolling into a local DIY superstore.

[Calluna4u]

Definitely a great price. My frame building is with Tacwise 180/20mm nails which are not in that pack. They're not in the Lightning deals but still available on Amazon via other retailers at £3.80 per 1000 which is still a good deal compared to rolling into a local DIY superstore.

Nailfast in Dundee. take in a copy of the internet offer for what you use with you, and they have invariably had a word in the office and come out and beaten the price. They only do collated or coiled nails for machine use. No boxes of individual nails or pins there.

For pins and loose nails what used to be Fyfe Douglas, 119 Clepington road, Dundee, are your best local bet as they keep zinced pins too rather than just the bright steel (which rust quickly) that others offer.

[gavin]

Thanks! Never thought of them.

[greengumbo]

Out sandbagging last night at a neighbours (no sniggering at the back!) and ditches all around the fields up this way are full. No sign of my hives being flooded yet but if this continues........

[fatshark]

I thought that had been outlawed in Aberdeenshire? ... perhaps best not discuss this sort of thing on an open forum.

This arrived this morning ... barely recognised it.
2529
but, never fear, normal service will be resumed tomorrow.
2530

[GRIZZLY]

Why can't I get access to the SBA website?. Seems tohave been offline for some time.

[Kate Atchley]

The site's been taken down after repeated and damaging hacking/attack. So work is in progress to restore it via a different platform, as I understand it. Not sure how long this will take.

[greengumbo]

I thought that had been outlawed in Aberdeenshire? ... perhaps best not discuss this sort of thing on an open forum.

This arrived this morning ... barely recognised it.
2529
but, never fear, normal service will be resumed tomorrow.
2530

"Luckily" the rain turned to snow and it seems to have stopped the floods for now. Like you though we are expecting it to revert to rain this evening. I would not want to have hives in Kintore / Inverurie at the moment.

The sun did make an appearance here for a few hours this afternoon and it was bloody lovely ! Even saw a few intrepid bees venture out then nip back in.

[fatshark]

That brief glimpse of sunshine reminded me I'll be grafting in as little as 4-5 months :) For those of us who needed the braille version of "Grafting for queen rearing" I discovered these rather trendy goggles (http://www.banggood.com/8-Lens-10x-15x-20x-25x-Headband-2LED-Magnifier-Magnifying-Loupe-9892G-p-917247.html) on the BangGood site that DR has been advocating in the DIY thread ... de rigeur for any queen rearing course you run in 2016 ;)

2531

[fatshark]

Fife and Angus beekeepers might be interested in BBC's Open Country on the River Tay (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06tvm6t) which includes discussion of the monks of Lindores Abbey who planted what are now the Newburgh orchards.

[The Drone Ranger]

That brief glimpse of sunshine reminded me I'll be grafting in as little as 4-5 months :) For those of us who needed the braille version of "Grafting for queen rearing" I discovered these rather trendy goggles (http://www.banggood.com/8-Lens-10x-15x-20x-25x-Headband-2LED-Magnifier-Magnifying-Loupe-9892G-p-917247.html) on the BangGood site that DR has been advocating in the DIY thread ... de rigeur for any queen rearing course you run in 2016 ;)

2531

Reminds me of Blade Runner with the eyeballs and the spooky little guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBi1IkeUr-k

Its raining not training that has my attention
It's back on again
(just after I put some tarmac repair down )

[fatshark]

Reminds me of Blade Runner with the eyeballs and the spooky little guy

Hannibal Chew: Don't know, I don't know such stuff. I just do eyes, ju-, ju-, just eyes... just genetic design, just eyes. You Nexus, huh? I design your eyes.
Batty: Chew, if only you could see what I've seen with your eyes!

Great film :)

I'm well aware of the rain ... just got in from having my arm down a freezing blocked drain. Brrrr.

[The Drone Ranger]

A review of the film raised an interesting question
Was "The attack ships on fire......." speech based on real or implanted memory
When I try and answer that, Confirmation Bias gets in the way, as it does in so many things :)

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[gavin]

Fife and Angus beekeepers might be interested in BBC's Open Country on the River Tay (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06tvm6t) which includes discussion of the monks of Lindores Abbey who planted what are now the Newburgh orchards.

Cracking wee programme, all the sites described are within a km or two of apiaries (in one case a planned apiary) of mine.

[Mellifera Crofter]

My bees floated up and down the Deveron. I'm gutted, and feel very, very guilty because it was my fault. I should have moved them long ago. I had moved half of the apiary, but left six hoping to find a good site nearby on higher ground, but left it too late ...

When I arrived yesterday at the apiary, the site was empty! I found two hives on their sides upstream in the middle of a field (because the river just there was a huge whirlpool), and three downstream, over a wire fence and up a hill. Those three were still strapped to their stands. Two of them landed upright, with gravel bags still in place, and a tall one got trapped on the fence - but I lost one colony. All the bees in the five surviving hives are alive - but I'll find out in spring whether the I lost any of the queens.

The two on the field are back home with me now, but the three on the hill are still there. The local farmer will help me to move them once the ground has dried up a bit.

Kitta

2532 2533 2534 2535

[Calluna4u]

Had a bad flood incident about three years back when over 40 got washed away and were mostly stuck in a wood a little downwind (they floated and the wind pushed them that way). It was amazing how many survived. Don't give up on the missing one yet....it may well turn up. At this time of year they should have been in tight cluster and the cold water will just have made them go even tighter.......so I would bet the majority come through remarkably fine. Being poly is the crucial positive here.....wood would probably have lacked the buoyancy.

Was up at Monymusk yesterday checking the wintering groups, and all were fine. Not even a dislodged roof, and every single one we checked was just fine and looked just perfect for the spring to come.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks C4U. I'm going back tomorrow to search some more for the lost colony. Compared to forty colonies, I was lucky I had only six colonies there and found five of them.

[gavin]

Hope it goes well Kitta. They can be remarkably resilient. I've had gales blow hives right over, scattering boxes and leaving exposed frames upside down. They still survived.

[greengumbo]

Wow Kitta ! Glad you got the five back and I'm sure the sixth will turn up. I never saw the Deveron on the news last week, it was all Port Elphinstone and Ellon.

Good luck.

[greengumbo]

Quick question....

I cut comb heather honey from about 40 super frames last year by hand and realised last weekend I still have the frames with the remainder of the comb / honey in the freezer.

Do you recommend I remove the remaining comb and melt the wax / scrape frames and replace with new foundation ? Or if I give the bees back the frames as they are with big gaping holes in - will they fill the holes with new comb in Spring ?

[fatshark]

I'd alternate them with drawn comb and would expect them to fill in the holes. It would be similar to alternating foundationless frames with ones primed with foundation ...

Of course, they probably wouldn't ;)

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks all. I went back today and found the last colony about a kilometre downstream washed up on a bank with its stand (and gravel bag) buried in the flood debris - and the bees are alive and well! I dug the hive out and got it standing upright, and gave the bees some candy. The farmer will help me to move this hive and the other three still on his land when the soil is drier. Both I and my bees were extraordinarily lucky.

Perhaps the reason you didn't hear about the Deveron flooding, Greengumbo, might be that it was a a fairly local problem near the gorge by Alvah bridge. There was just too much water to get through the gorge and it caused a backwash.

Kitta

2536

[madasafish]

So sorry to hear of your flooding Mellifera. Hope your bees survive OK..

I was brought up in Macduff and know the Alvah bridge well - my uncle lived in Alvah village...

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks, Madasafish. As I said, I was so lucky to have found them all alive and well. So, as a local lad, you know how lovely the Alvah bridge area is - also in terms of forage for the bees. I'll have to find a new, secure site for them nearby.

Kitta

[madasafish]

Thanks, Madasafish. As I said, I was so lucky to have found them all alive and well. So, as a local lad, you know how lovely the Alvah bridge area is - also in terms of forage for the bees. I'll have to find a new, secure site for them nearby.

Kitta

Some nice (expensive) houses on the Alvah side of the bridge when I was there last.. Lots of pasture for horses IIRC.. High enough up to be free of flooding!

I used to cycle there as a kid - from Macduff - and watch the salmon from the bridge . Idyllic spot - on a warm sunny day.

[Bridget]

Glad you got them all back Kitta and good luck that they come through OK


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[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks Bridget. Yes, I'm relieved and impressed by their survival.
Kitta

[Neils]

First peek at some of mine for a while last weekend to top up the fondant. 2 of the 3 are still going, one was touch and go as a Nuc to begin with, inevitably they were quite nice bees and it's the buggers that are still going. One more site to check, but that was a combined hive packed with food so less worried about that one.

[Bridget]

Not managed to do the OA yet as too warm before Christmas and when we came back at the beginning of Jan it's been too cold or wet. One of the disadvantages of a bee house it that they have a bit further to fly home when disturbed so raining is not good. However meant to be warmer and dryer today so was thinking of doing a trickle today. Any advice to what you do when you have got brood and a half? Do you just trickle both boxes if there are two clusters?


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[Mellifera Crofter]

I've never treated my bees with oxalic acid, Bridget - so I can't give you any advice. Did you treat them today, and did the cluster stretch over both boxes?

[madasafish]

Not managed to do the OA yet as too warm before Christmas and when we came back at the beginning of Jan it's been too cold or wet. One of the disadvantages of a bee house it that they have a bit further to fly home when disturbed so raining is not good. However meant to be warmer and dryer today so was thinking of doing a trickle today. Any advice to what you do when you have got brood and a half? Do you just trickle both boxes if there are two clusters?


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We treated all our Association Apiary with Oxalic Acid solution Saturday. Where they are on brood and half/double , and there were bees in teh bottom box, we treated each box.

(As a Langstroth Jumbo user, I think brood and half/double is a pig's ear -I hate lifting weights - back- but needs must.....:-)

[Bridget]

I've never treated my bees with oxalic acid, Bridget - so I can't give you any advice. Did you treat them today, and did the cluster stretch over both boxes?

Well the brood and half were not clustered. They were all over both boxes. Obviously it's Fraser who does the bees now so I didn't see them but he said the brood &1/2 were very full and busy although they haven't touched much of the fondant. They did go in with a lot of stores but the 1/2 seems light. My worry is that the brood box bees can't or won't get up to the fondant which is above the 1/2, and this is why they are all over the place. Still not much we can do now just have to wait it out. Other hives good though one dummied down hive is only about 3 to 4 frames. That's the only wooden hive I have.



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[Bridget]

We treated all our Association Apiary with Oxalic Acid solution Saturday. Where they are on brood and half/double , and there were bees in teh bottom box, we treated each box.

(As a Langstroth Jumbo user, I think brood and half/double is a pig's ear -I hate lifting weights - back- but needs must.....:-)

Ok well we did that too - treated both boxes, so we got that right! Thanks


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[prakel]

Well the brood and half were not clustered. They were all over both boxes.

If I can be excused for briefly drifting off topic, this is just the point I was trying to make a couple of weeks back when someone with dadants was enquiring about building shallow boxes to fit his nucs... If you overwinter a colony (or nuc, in his case) on brood and a half without an excluder (half on top, where it belongs of course) you've got an easy, ready made split as soon as queen mating is viable because even at an early date the bees will be across both boxes if they're any good at all.

[Bridget]

If I can be excused for briefly drifting off topic, this is just the point I was trying to make a couple of weeks back when someone with dadants was enquiring about building shallow boxes to fit his nucs... If you overwinter a colony (or nuc, in his case) on brood and a half without an excluder (half on top, where it belongs of course) you've got an easy, ready made split as soon as queen mating is viable because even at an early date the bees will be across both boxes if they're any good at all.

We were just talking about what we would do with the brood and a half when it got to spring . (We've not had b+1/2 before) and I said I thought we should split it, ensuring the queen is in the bottom half and the other 1/2 ,would make their own queen. I understand the problem is that it leads to a very slow build up but I suppose as long as all the bees didn't die out before she was mated and laying it should be OK and presumably if it got a bit light we could top up with some bees or a frame of brood from one of the others hives. Anyway up here in the highlands we would not be getting any local queens until late June. I had not thought about waiting till there were drones about, silly billy meme. Thanks for that Prakel, very useful.


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[prakel]

I understand the problem is that it leads to a very slow build up

I should mention that I'd personlly add a ripe cell. I've done plenty of walk-away splits and come to the conclusion that the really successful ones, the one's which get the method a good name in some quarters, are more often than not the ones which soon afterwards supercede their new queen. I've seen this too many times to think that it's just an occassional fluke. Sure some emergency queens are OK but I reckon that a lot of them are little more than stop-gap 'fillers' till they get chance to raise a better one. Are bees that intelligent? Probably not but even so that's how it often appears to work out, for whatever reason. I think that it probably takes a very high degree of observation based timing (or sheer luck) to split two boxes and get a really good new queen as the result.

[Bumble]

Nothing to do with bees, but I did get a little excited today when I read an email telling me I was due a tax rebate of almost £1,000.

It's a pity the email address and teh weblink didn't match HMRC's address, so sent if off as a reported phishing attempt.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Bumble
My favourite was when I was offered a well paid job as a Secret Shopper
Better still it was in New Zealand
I didn't get a reply when I asked if travel expenses would be covered
Pity I was looking forward to that :)


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[The Drone Ranger]

Bad wind
Possible "Where are we Toto ?" moment with hives carried off by the tornado

Two double nucs blown over but they were well strapped so stood them up again easily

Phew!

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[Mellifera Crofter]

Floating and flying bee hives. I'm glad you didn't rely on stones to keep the hives down, John, and that the bees are OK.
Kitta

[The Drone Ranger]

They were well strapped up thank goodness
Don't you use Oxalic then Kitta ?

[Mellifera Crofter]

No, I've never used Oxalic, John. I'm probably lucky in that my bees have hardly any varroa at all, or perhaps the Apivar keeps them in check. It's expensive, but it's good. One treatment, and then that's it for the next year. The two recent threads on Oxalic goes right over my head, and I hope it stays that way!
Kitta

[The Drone Ranger]

No, I've never used Oxalic, John. I'm probably lucky in that my bees have hardly any varroa at all, or perhaps the Apivar keeps them in check. It's expensive, but it's good. One treatment, and then that's it for the next year. The two recent threads on Oxalic goes right over my head, and I hope it stays that way!
Kitta

I like it as well
One friend who is getting on a bit used to ignore varroa (not good)
But he uses the Apivar now mainly because its so simple and has only 4 hives to treat

Made quite few frames up today with W but it was perishing cold and the wax was very brittle
Still, nice to get back into swing for the new season
I discovered how slow I am frame making
I blame the weather :)

[Mellifera Crofter]

...The two recent threads on Oxalic goes right over my head, and I hope it stays that way!
Kitta

Two recent threads GO over my head. Sorry! [emoji35]

[Mellifera Crofter]

...
I discovered how slow I am frame making
I blame the weather :)

Better that than mangling your English - and I can't blame the weather for that.
Kitta

[madasafish]

I like it as well
One friend who is getting on a bit used to ignore varroa (not good)
But he uses the Apivar now mainly because its so simple and has only 4 hives to treat

Made quite few frames up today with W but it was perishing cold and the wax was very brittle
Still, nice to get back into swing for the new season
I discovered how slow I am frame making
I blame the weather :)


Made up 20 Lang frames and wired them - leave wax till last.

Frozen fingers and some blood where I pricked my thumb..(did not fall asleep as I am no Snow White, more like a larger dwarf......)

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi madasafish
do you mount sheets of unwired wax on the wired frames then ?
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick
I have a feeling Snow white ate an apple but I get the drift
Sleeping Beauty ,Rumplestiltskin and the Handsome Prince
Shrek jumbled them all up with bears gingerbread men and porridge
Mike Myers should answer for his crimes against European folk mythology

[SDM]

I love my brad pusher, I sit making frames on my lap watching TV which keeps hands and wax a lot warmer.
Its a fair bit quicker although you still need a hammer for the occasional one that won't push through a knot.
Doesn't stop the odd thumb prick though.

[madasafish]

Hi madasafish
do you mount sheets of unwired wax on the wired frames then ?
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick
I have a feeling Snow white ate an apple but I get the drift
Sleeping Beauty ,Rumplestiltskin and the Handsome Prince
Shrek jumbled them all up with bears gingerbread men and porridge
Mike Myers should answer for his crimes against European folk mythology

I actually use wired wax as well... sounds silly but it's easier to insert in frames and about 10p per sheet more than unwaxed. I know I should embed the wire in the wax but don't bother as my bees seem happy to do it for me... eventually..

I watch too many movies so my children's stories get mixed up in my memory.

Anyone want a good brain? Hardly used

[The Drone Ranger]

I love my brad pusher, I sit making frames on my lap watching TV which keeps hands and wax a lot warmer.
Its a fair bit quicker although you still need a hammer for the occasional one that won't push through a knot.
Doesn't stop the odd thumb prick though.
My pusher slipped one day and went though my thumb nail of the other hand
I still use it but I'm a bit more careful now:)

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[gavin]

Thankfully I haven't yet found a way to puncture myself with the Tacwise electric nail gun but there are plenty of opportunities ahead before the season goes mental. I recently ordered 2,700 sheets of foundation, my best estimate for the season.

[fatshark]

:eek: I made up ~250 frames last year and it nearly killed me.

Respect ;)

[gavin]

Haven't made one yet! :) Saving it for a rainy day .... or fortnight. After I get the boxes prepared and painted.

[SDM]

150 boxes to paint plus frames to assemble. I paint myself into the bedroom each night ( its a good job I'm single) hoping they're dry enough to move in the morning


2560

[Calum]

Thankfully I haven't yet found a way to puncture myself with the Tacwise electric nail gun but there are plenty of opportunities ahead before the season goes mental. I recently ordered 2,700 sheets of foundation, my best estimate for the season.
wow Gavin, thats alot of foundation.
Enough for 135 colonies on 20 frames?? - Are you going full time beeking?
For my nucs I started adding some frames with only half a sheet of foundation last year.
Works quite well. - And since foundation is now 18€/kg here I will be doing it again this year!

[mbc]

I've already furnished ( put the boxes together, made up the frames, wired them and waxed them with homemade foundation) the lions share of 120 supers this winter.
Nail guns for frame assembly are a great time saver, I still have a hammer and pins handy and always use a rampin for securing the top wedge. I'll soon be finished on supers and ready to move on to broods, the radio and plentiful cups of tea are my friends in the winter.
Also oav'd my bees, over 200 of the buggers looking pretty good and potential survivors, fingers crossed, some on the light side so will be going with fondant for the next round, plus a slap and slurp of pollen sub and syrup for those on osr, starting mid month barring necessary checks after gales.

[GRIZZLY]

Glad the Tacwise is working for you Gavin , I just couldn't get good results with it. I much prefer my compressor and pneumatic brad gun. i can use pins and staples with this.

[fatshark]

My Tacwise does staples as well ... which are the bizzo for putting together floors, split boards etc. And, although I prefer to screw and glue them together, I've used 35mm staples for boxes as well.

Gavin ... "saving it for a rainy day" ! ... ~200-300% of the 100 year average December rainfall in our area. How wet do you need it?

2561

I've developed syndactyly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndactyly) ...

[busybeephilip]

150 boxes to paint plus frames to assemble. I paint myself into the bedroom each night ( its a good job I'm single) hoping they're dry enough to move in the morning


2560

Reminds me of those hoarding TV programs !

[gavin]

I'm expecting a rainy Feb and March too :p.

The delay is thanks to being occupied on a gainful project in the darker months which is going to fund the next phase of bee empire building. Yup, I was made redundant about a year ago to the day and decided to go for it. Roughly a threefold increase in stocks in that awful summer last time. Could have been about fourfold in a better mating season. 9 overwintered last year (2014-2015) and 12 purchased from two forum members -> about 60 now. Fingers crossed of course. Hoping for another threefold increase this coming summer, with current plans for 90 full boxes and the rest in poly nucs for propagation and sale.

Your Tacwise, John, was great while it lasted (thanks!) but had a terminal jam in the nozzle that I couldn't fix and the new one seems much better behaved.

I recognise SDM's indoor painting and retreating to bed to hope they'll be dry in the morning. Before long I hope to use a friend's under-used garage to scale up a bit. One of my very kind bee hosts is planning building me a workshop and honey house before the season gets too advanced so things are looking good for the future.

[Greengage]

Good luck with the project, I see were having the first of our conferences over here this weekend in Ireland on native bees in Athlone looking forward to attending and listening and asking questions of bee keepers. When my stand dries i will post pictures of my token attempts at hive making and nuc buildiing, painted the stand two weeks ago with Tounge oil and its still not dry me suspects something is wrong it is now inside with temp increased to try and dry it out.

[GRIZZLY]

I think you will find Tung oil dries by oxidation similar to boiled linseed.I used to use it in the days when I made bespoke furniture for a living and clients wanted a "natural" finish.

[fatshark]

If anyone is looking for a beekeeping training course in the Heathrow area then check this out (https://www.theknowledgeacademy.com/courses/bee-keeping-training/bee-keeping-for-beginners/heathrow/) ... and, if you're living in Scotland and are considering it you can also probably afford to fly down there in your LearJet for the day ;)

I'll happily undercut their prices by, say 10%, if you're prefer to stay in Fife ... and who wouldn't? :)

[The Drone Ranger]

If anyone is looking for a beekeeping training course in the Heathrow area then check this out (https://www.theknowledgeacademy.com/courses/bee-keeping-training/bee-keeping-for-beginners/heathrow/) ... and, if you're living in Scotland and are considering it you can also probably afford to fly down there in your LearJet for the day ;)

I'll happily undercut their prices by, say 10%, if you're prefer to stay in Fife ... and who wouldn't? :)
must be a scam

[fatshark]

Certainly the last line of my last post was ;)

[busybeephilip]

looks like a bargain

[Jon]

I could even discount those prices by 15% and provide sandwiches as well.
I wonder are there enough people out there prepared to pay out money like that for a 1 day introduction course?
Maybe in London but certainly not in NI or Fife!

[Jimbo]

They must be having a laugh
I'll do it for 20% less, arrange a 3 course meal plus drinks for the participants.
If they don't have a tutor lined up yet I'll do that as well ( if they pay me 2k per day plus my flights down)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jon]

I'll do all that and also give every course member a free nuc at the end of the day. After all, they will be fully equipped to manage a nuc by 5pm.
Should still be in pocket by a few thousand.

[The Drone Ranger]

I can do the whole thing give them a Mann Lake national
hive with 2 supers and bees
Plus a trip on the Orient Express thrown in

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[fatshark]

Plus a trip on the Orient Express thrown in

Presumably not this one (https://www.belmond.com/venice-simplon-orient-express/journeys/4_169630) ... £6340/person ...

Or perhaps it is? They've sold out ;)

[fatshark]

Took this photo yesterday to illustrate a talk ... this is what £11 buys you if you're after oxalic acid-based treatments ...

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This isn't a 'guess the weight' competition ... I'll give you those ... 2.5 kg and 35 g

:rolleyes:

[Calum]

is the bucket pharma quality?

[fatshark]

Probably not pharma quality ... but the same purity (99.6%) as sold by the beekeeping suppliers here. The pharma-grade stuff (http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sial/247537?lang=en&region=GB) starts at about £16 for 100 g.

[gavin]

And, of course, Api-Bioxal is only 88% pure ;).

[fatshark]

Pedantically incorrect my dear Watson ... the silica and glucose in Api-Bioxal are very pure indeed ;)
Happy Friday ...

[The Drone Ranger]

Presumably not this one (https://www.belmond.com/venice-simplon-orient-express/journeys/4_169630) ... £6340/person ...

Or perhaps it is? They've sold out ;)

Or this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/journeysbyrail/11164647/Maharajas-Express-India-and-the-budget-alternative.html
there is a £125 option for the likes of me :)

[busybeephilip]

Think I'll stick to cruising ....rod and bait ..... on strangford lough

[The Drone Ranger]

this article was linked out from one of my incoming mail(ads)
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/33537

[The Drone Ranger]

Better day today so some superficial checks on mini nucs and Paynes
One Paynes nuc expired :(
3 Kielers and one Apidea gone to heaven (possibly hell for the apidea)
9 Keilers left mostly doubles

Spent a while with big bucket of hot water cleaning the dead outs
Must say the Apidea was slightly easier to clean
(If only they weren't so tasty to rodents and dear to buy)
All 4 of the dead ones had food in the compartment but only one had any food in combs
Even in a mild Winter it seems stores actually sealed in the combs is the only reliable food source

The double Keilers only have the 6 frame bars but the bees have been allowed to extend the frames down through the lower box
That gives them a much bigger uninterrupted comb space

Empty ones are clean and dry now so they will be joining the rest in some rat/mouse proof storage boxes

[The Drone Ranger]

New Mann Lake suit arrived and fits so that's one job done

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[Feckless Drone]

New Mann Lake suit arrived and fits so that's one job done

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

Was one job to join your local association? AGM coming up! And looking for mentors for beginners.

[The Drone Ranger]

Good point I did join the SBA again so reeling from that £30
I am not a qualified instructor and might be a bad influence on the new beekeepers :)
Presumably FD its the ESBA
when is your AGM ?

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[gavin]

Good point I did join the SBA again so reeling from that £30
I am not a qualified instructor and might be a bad influence on the new beekeepers :)
Presumably FD its the ESBA
when is your AGM ?

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

7 March at 7:30. Watch out, we're still looking for a candidate for the new vice-president ;).

Whether or not you join (the £10 is quite some investment .. ) you are hereby invited to one of our summer meetings which will be to C4U's (and Jolanta's) queen mating operation. We haven't yet agreed a date but it is likely to be a Saturday in June or thereabouts. Bring W too if you like she'd be most welcome.

[The Drone Ranger]

Thanks Gavin that sounds like a good day out
£10 thats OK for the idle rich like yourself
I will have to check the piggy bank

Does the Vice president get a big hat?
2569
Or maybe one of these
2570

and do his family get a spear proof vest :)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2582979/Cannibal-killing-finally-revealed-The-gruesome-details-Rockefeller-heir-gutted-cooked-Asmat-tribe-New-Guinea.html

[Feckless Drone]

Does the Vice president get a big hat? and do his family get a spear proof vest :)
[/url]

DR - Any kind of hat you want and we can measure you up for a correx body armour top. But! I would not want you to be disappointed. E.S.B.A. are not as raucous a bunch as those PNG fellows and given that we hold the meeting in the Methodist hall then some of those activities described would be frowned upon.

[The Drone Ranger]

DR - Any kind of hat you want and we can measure you up for a correx body armour top. But! I would not want you to be disappointed. E.S.B.A. are not as raucous a bunch as those PNG fellows and given that we hold the meeting in the Methodist hall then some of those activities described would be frowned upon.

I need Harry Potters invisibility cloak :)

[GRIZZLY]

Bees seem to be flying for 10 minutes to half an hour most days.The afternoons seem to be quite sunny with the temperature going up to about 10 deg for a while but the northerly wind soon puts paid to flying when the temperature drops rapidly.

[Emma]

Got to the apiary mid afternoon today. Sunny, calm. Sheltered spot. The air was humming with bees, not the droning noise of urgent cold-weather flying, but an upbeat foraging vibe. First time I've heard that sound this year. Within a few minutes I'd seen pollen going into 7 out of 8 hives, and what looked like a cohort of new bees orientating outside one of them. Lovely.

[Greengage]

Looking forward to March 7th to see if you get your hat or if you fly with the feral swarms and set up your own colony.:)

[The Drone Ranger]

Missed it !!
Oh well
Todays little pile of infuriating annoyances included trying to make a donation to the rowers who were on breakfast TV
Google search took me to Virgin Giving, but a read through the small print finds that Richard Branson not content with his Carribean Island , Spaceships, Balloons and buck teeth also wants to skim off 2% of my donation and bombard me with junk mail
On to the next one -- no thats even worse they intend to skim off 5%, presumably they don't yet have a Carribean Island or a spaceship (yet) so they need the extra to fund them
Pretty sure they will still have buck teeth and no chins though
Grrrr!!!

[Greengage]

Looks like your not eusocial.:o

[The Drone Ranger]

Looks like your not eusocial.:o

Not if it means handing charity money to sneaky skimming B'st who hide it in the small print
Oh no! no honey badger worth his salt would swallow that

I've had arguments on the phone with the evasive gits
Even if you ask who do you work for they will say
"Oxfam" (or whatever)
Then you ask well who pays your wages ?
"Oxfam" they say
So you are on Oxfam's payroll
"Not exactly we are an agency collecting on behalf of Oxfam "
Right so you are just a bloody parasite skimming money off the top (best to take a conciliatory approach I feel)
"I am NOT"
Agument begins ending 20 mins later with
well you can F off and don't ring my Fn phone again you arsol

p.s. GG I had to google eusocial and thats gone on todays list of minor irritations as No12

[GRIZZLY]

I've just steamed 15 pounds of wax from a load of "old" frames , leaving them very clean looking and wax free . I'm wondering if they can now be regarded as disease free and suitable for re-use after waxing with new foundation. I thought of using acetic acid on them - perhaps this isn't necessary but, with nosema on the increase I want to get my hives as hygenic as possible, The frames were steamed in spare plastic brood boxes and I guess the steaming should render them hygenic as well.Again further cleaning with bleach might be necessary ??.

[greengumbo]

I've just steamed 15 pounds of wax from a load of "old" frames , leaving them very clean looking and wax free . I'm wondering if they can now be regarded as disease free and suitable for re-use after waxing with new foundation. I thought of using acetic acid on them - perhaps this isn't necessary but, with nosema on the increase I want to get my hives as hygenic as possible, The frames were steamed in spare plastic brood boxes and I guess the steaming should render them hygenic as well.Again further cleaning with bleach might be necessary ??.

I did this and then since I didnt need the frames and brood boxes for a while stuck acetic acid on a nappy and stuck them in large bin bags to kill the spores etc.

Checked my hives today for the first time this year and stuck pollen patty / light syrup on them. Poly hives way ahead as usual but wooden hives not bad either.

[Kate Atchley]

Visit to Bee Farmers in Calabria, Italy
John Freeman on the FB Queen Rearing UK page, is inviting folk to join him visiting "two commercial beekeepers" in the south of Italy, Calabria.

Isn't that where SHB was found and not yet reliably cleared?

No prizes for guessing my thoughts on this venture!

[Calluna4u]

Visit to Bee Farmers in Calabria, Italy
John Freeman on the FB Queen Rearing UK page, is inviting folk to join him visiting "two commercial beekeepers" in the south of Italy, Calabria.

Isn't that where SHB was found and not yet reliably cleared?

No prizes for guessing my thoughts on this venture!

I know nothing of this trip or the guy concerned, but know there are some very good and ethical queen rearers out there on the northern fringes of the SHB outbreak that would be well worth visiting.

Apicoltura 2 Ponti, not far north of the core of the outbreak, would be a real treat. I have had some of their carnica queens in the past and they were brilliant for Scotland, their mothers coming from the Alps.

To avoid these people because of an affliction that is not their fault is, IMO, just not fair, and to dismiss them because of SHB is not sensible. They are really hurting as they have been shut off from their markets. Many had really expensive breeder stock from northern Europe and Scandinavia so they could supply northern clients (as far up as Finland) with northern bees in early season, and now its a dead loss for them. They do not have SHB themselves but cannot now sell out of the quarantine zone. Shunning them shows a lack of solidarity.

As far as I can see no-one is proposing to be bringing bees back, and the Italians themselves have been really good about all this. As an educational visit I would suggest it is just about the best choice of all for now. Learn about SHB from those who really have seen it and hear what THEY have to say rather than listen to scaremongers and alarmists (applies equally well to folk like me of course, who consider it likely to be a non issue, and liberalists).

[Kate Atchley]

I know nothing of this trip or the guy concerned, but know there are some very good and ethical queen rearers out there on the northern fringes of the SHB outbreak that would be well worth visiting.

Apicoltura 2 Ponti, not far north of the core of the outbreak, would be a real treat. .........

As far as I can see no-one is proposing to be bringing bees back, and the Italians themselves have been really good about all this. As an educational visit I would suggest it is just about the best choice of all for now. Learn about SHB from those who really have seen it and hear what THEY have to say rather than listen to scaremongers and alarmists (applies equally well to folk like me of course, who consider it likely to be a non issue, and liberalists).

Thanks C4u ~ yes they are visiting around Apicoltura 2 Ponti. I am chastened and you've reminded us how much these breeders' businesses are being damaged just now.

I assumed they were visiting with a view to buying bees ... but maybe not. I'll ask.

[Calluna4u]

I apologise if that came across as a personal rebuke of some kind. It was not meant that way. I just reckon that the best way to learn is to actually see, and second best is to hear from those that have actually seen.

I get a bit frustrated at folk in general (and the southern equivalent of this group are particularly prone to this) who are not open to seeing things that do not coincide with their own viewpoint. I know some of the guys out there and have no cause whatsoever to denigrate what they do. I very much doubt that ANY of the professionals in Calabria, or Sicily (where I know the people better) would risk selling on anything. Too much to lose from non compliance with the local rules if nothing else.

At last information I had over 3000 colonies had been burned, jobs and homes lost, compensation grossly delayed. Not good.

I don't know what else they can do about it. The eradication, if it is ever achieved, will take some seasons, for a problem, that in most places, is not considered serious. Sub tropical areas of USA apart, and heated honey houses where combs are stored longer than they should be.

Latest feedback from my Italian contacts is that if it is still showing up in another two years they are most likely to close their whole national border to exports, and declare the southern parts at least as infested. They are at the point of considering if the cure is worse than the complaint.

To be perfectly clear however......despite my lack of alarm at SHB, I consider any imports from southern Italy as very foolish indeed. There are multiple reasons for this, not just my own ambivalence to SHB.

[Kate Atchley]

I apologise if that came across as a personal rebuke of some kind. It was not meant that way ...........

I didn't read it as a rebuke at all C4u. But I realised I had a myopic view of this and am grateful for the bigger picture. It's distressing to know the hardship the SHB outbreak has caused down there.

[The Drone Ranger]

Its tough on those Italian breeders ,but somebody selfish brought the SHB into their area and now they are paying the price
Lets hope it doesn't happen here

[Calluna4u]

but somebody selfish brought the SHB into their area and now they are paying the price


How it got there is not known yet. It may have been adventitious, or the darker spectre being raised there is malicious. A deliberate act of revenge.

Good people are being devastated financially and I know certain sections of the UK lobby don't give a **** as long as it can be used to keep imports out.

However......the beetles themselves appear to have done little damage there, the regulations massive damage.

They are in all probability innocent victims. I detect no sympathy from you for our fellow bee people. There but for the grace of.......etc.

The typing of the beetles to determine the origin of the infestation will be interesting......then the finger pointing can begin.

[drumgerry]

I wouldn't say it's a lack of sympathy per se C4U. Personally speaking there are few beekeeping businesses I would want to see go down the tubes and from what you describe the affected Italian queen breeders seem to be decent people. It seems a pity that their businesses are export dependent although it sounds like their domestic trade has been severely curtailed by SHB as well. To me though it makes the case for keeping things local ever stronger.

[The Drone Ranger]

How it got there is not known yet. It may have been adventitious, or the darker spectre being raised there is malicious. A deliberate act of revenge.

Good people are being devastated financially and I know certain sections of the UK lobby don't give a **** as long as it can be used to keep imports out.

However......the beetles themselves appear to have done little damage there, the regulations massive damage.

They are in all probability innocent victims. I detect no sympathy from you for our fellow bee people. There but for the grace of.......etc.

The typing of the beetles to determine the origin of the infestation will be interesting......then the finger pointing can begin.

As for "There but for the grace of God etc"
small hive beetle got to Italy through earthly means and thats how it will get here

[fatshark]

Wandered across to the bee shed to collect something I'd left there by accident yesterday.
The heavens opened.
Fortunately, I've taken a deck chair over there for precisely this sort of eventuality. I spent a dry and relaxing 20 minutes listening to the faint hum of the hives and the film review on Radio 5.

Note to self #1 ... leave an umbrella there for the next time
Note to self #2 ... and a kettle ;)

[drumgerry]

Lovely to see the bees working the willow here in Speyside this afternoon. Does the spirit good!

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c321/drumgerry/EED5A962-9616-4D58-A66D-EA47D3F70EAA.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/drumgerry/media/EED5A962-9616-4D58-A66D-EA47D3F70EAA.jpg.html)

[The Drone Ranger]

Wandered across to the bee shed to collect something I'd left there by accident yesterday.
The heavens opened.
Fortunately, I've taken a deck chair over there for precisely this sort of eventuality. I spent a dry and relaxing 20 minutes listening to the faint hum of the hives and the film review on Radio 5.

Note to self #1 ... leave an umbrella there for the next time
Note to self #2 ... and a kettle ;)

I too took refuge in the bee shed, where I cut myself twice trying to drill holes in an acrylic sheet, and had to listen to a medley of songs by the popular crooners Def Leopard

What is radio 5 ?
Is it new ?
Possibly the accumulator on my radio needs charging

[fatshark]

Does Angus only get the BBC Home Service still? Disappointing.

Spent yesterday building a shed-load of frames. Having knocked up a few boxes of foundationless frames I switched to using full sheets of foundation ... why is Thorne's Premium National foundation consistently too wide for the frame? Grrr. Every sheet had to be trimmed by a couple of millimetres. In contrast, the few dozen sheets of Maisemores standard stuff were a perfect fit ... but every one of them is going to need the hairdryer treatment as the stuff is old and 'bloomed'.

2661

Before ... you know what a sheet that fits properly looks like.

[The Drone Ranger]

This might be wrong but sometimes I find if you get frames from one supplier and wax from another they dont fit
The easipet stuff is too thick
I have had to shave a few mm off standard wax as well at times
Its worse when the frames are seconds because nothing fits
If it was easy everyone could do it

I have dashed off a telegram to Angus asking him to confirm the broadcast status in his area
As yet he has not replied, perhaps the runner has been intercepted by a band of feral farmers

[fatshark]

Frames and foundation both first quality from big T in this case ... except for the foundation that fitted which was Maisies and was so old it was probably cut to Imperial measurements.
I use second quality frames usually for foundationless ... out and out duds are rare and I don't have to worry about shonky grooves in the sidebars as there's no foundation to fit. If they're seconds it also doesn't hurt as much when I chuck 'em rather than going through the palaver of reclaiming the wax and rewiring them. Seconds and foundationless mean I'm willing to splurge on DN5's ... Luxury (https://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo) ;)

Yet another season has started without me making my own starter strips during the winter ... shame on me. I need to build a tall thin wax melter of some sort.

Are those feral bee farmers intercepting your runner?

[The Drone Ranger]

Frames and foundation both first quality from big T in this case ... except for the foundation that fitted which was Maisies and was so old it was probably cut to Imperial measurements.
I use second quality frames usually for foundationless ... out and out duds are rare and I don't have to worry about shonky grooves in the sidebars as there's no foundation to fit. If they're seconds it also doesn't hurt as much when I chuck 'em rather than going through the palaver of reclaiming the wax and rewiring them. Seconds and foundationless mean I'm willing to splurge on DN5's ... Luxury (https://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo) ;)

Yet another season has started without me making my own starter strips during the winter ... shame on me. I need to build a tall thin wax melter of some sort.

Are those feral bee farmers intercepting your runner?

its been a problem since the big collapse in the bee population
not enough pollinators farmers taking to crime now the crops are all failing
you surely havent missed that thread

your so money supermarket fatshark :)

[fatshark]

your so money supermarket fatshark :)

Absolutely ... which means finding a beesuit that fits this

2662

is tricky.

[The Drone Ranger]

Lol!!

[fatshark]

Unconventionally and perhaps controversially bringing this thread back on topic ...

I went through three colonies in my shed today ... one of the full-sized colonies had two reasonable patches of sealed drone brood, perhaps 2+" across. Definitely not a DLQ as the rest of the 4-5 frames were pretty good quality worker brood, with at least one frame a slab of lovely brood with very few gaps. The other full-sized colony, which was if anything further developed, had no drone brood. The only difference is that the one with drone brood was on foundationless frames where the bees draw a mix of worker and drone cells 'as needed', but also repurpose them - or perhaps restructure would be a better word - if required.

I've got no experience with early season in Scotland but was surprised to see drone brood so early. I suspect that the cells were drone from last year and that it's been too cold for the bees to restructure them for the workers the colony should be raising ... another example of the Q not really being in charge of things, but simply acting as an egg laying machine?

External temperature about 11-12 C ... a balmy 18 C in the shed with the door open most of the time :)

[greengumbo]

Unconventionally and perhaps controversially bringing this thread back on topic ...

I went through three colonies in my shed today ... one of the full-sized colonies had two reasonable patches of sealed drone brood, perhaps 2+" across. Definitely not a DLQ as the rest of the 4-5 frames were pretty good quality worker brood, with at least one frame a slab of lovely brood with very few gaps. The other full-sized colony, which was if anything further developed, had no drone brood. The only difference is that the one with drone brood was on foundationless frames where the bees draw a mix of worker and drone cells 'as needed', but also repurpose them - or perhaps restructure would be a better word - if required.

I've got no experience with early season in Scotland but was surprised to see drone brood so early. I suspect that the cells were drone from last year and that it's been too cold for the bees to restructure them for the workers the colony should be raising ... another example of the Q not really being in charge of things, but simply acting as an egg laying machine?

External temperature about 11-12 C ... a balmy 18 C in the shed with the door open most of the time :)

Few patches of drone brood up here. Not quite 2+" but two colonies out of 16 had drone brood. Def marked mated queens in them. Told you it wasn't so bad up here !

[fatshark]

Look carefully GG ... that drone brood was laid up last year ... it's been frozen solid for the last 7 months ;)
Good to hear you're back on your feet again.

[The Drone Ranger]

Unconventionally and perhaps controversially bringing this thread back on topic ...
)
there's a topic ?
Another hive bit the dust thats 2 hives 2 nucs and 8 out of 14 Keilers Kaput

[fatshark]

I didn't go.

But I did look through the "What's new" section of the Thorne's catalogue online.

The Good
Stainless steel runners - no more acetic acid destruction
Plastic QE with beespace one side
Rainbow Apidea-sized mating hive (https://www.thorne.co.uk/whats-new/wahts-new-queen?product_id=7205) for £8ish (but perhaps not for overwintering)

The Bad
Eyewateringly expensive new floor system with about 35 modules and add-ons. Some combinations - this is a floor remember - cost £80-120 :eek:

The Ugly
SHB traps
Dummy boards for £10, yes ... you read that correctly
Api-Bioxal 350g for £this page isn't wide enough

... and then I went and built some more frames ;)

[gavin]

Rainbow Apidea-sized mating hive (https://www.thorne.co.uk/whats-new/wahts-new-queen?product_id=7205) for £8ish (but perhaps not for overwintering)


Nice looking price and reasonable looking box. One difficulty might be that it looks exactly like a picnic cooler box so if you site them out in nice places passers by might be tempted to look in for pieces and cakes.

[The Drone Ranger]

Varrox is now £100 which is competitively priced

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[greengumbo]

I checked some hives up on windy sites yesterday. Loads of brood but hardly any stores. Off to give them an emergency feed today. Queens kicked off with brood a while back but then its been terrible weather last two weeks. Really annoyed at myself for not checking last week.

Snow tonight apparently.

[The Drone Ranger]

I checked some hives up on windy sites yesterday. Loads of brood but hardly any stores. Off to give them an emergency feed today. Queens kicked off with brood a while back but then its been terrible weather last two weeks. Really annoyed at myself for not checking last week.

Snow tonight apparently.

Looks like a old snap GG
Liquid feed I presume ?

[greengumbo]

Looks like a old snap GG
Liquid feed I presume ?

Went and checked them yesterday in the sun. Hives all now have plenty stores and were piling in with gorse and some light grey / browny pollen (willow?).

Still plenty brood so got them in the nick of time.

Painted a few old WBCs as well. Lovely looking, if totally impractical, hives ! Great for the garden though.

[wee willy]

Surprising what the extra day length does . 3 weeks ago , not an egg on any hive !
Tuesday every hive had brood all stages , plenty of stores . I supered the most advance one . And took the opportunity to re- mark the Queens. My eye sight isn't as good as it was .:) my wife was first to spot the queens and I as I said re- marked them .
Yesterday I sat amongst the hives and had a good hour watching and listening the the bees furiously working , birds a twittering , even the farm chickens scratching around the hives , I've no experience of heaven but this must have been close to it !
Still a thrill after 27 years at it !


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Kate Atchley]

... Yesterday I sat amongst the hives and had a good hour watching and listening the the bees furiously working , birds a twittering , even the farm chickens scratching around the hives , I've no experience of heaven but this must have been close to it !
Still a thrill after 27 years at it !

Thanks willy ... so good to read. We seldom seem to share such moments here but how precious they are!

[Kate Atchley]

Yesterday, in glorious sunshine but still only 13º, I took a quick look at 6 of the Amm hives.

1st hive: 2013 queen's turned drone-layer over the winter. Left them alone to sort out later.
2nd Hive: Also had a 2013 queen. Found a handful of sealed worker brood cells and a newly-hatched queen running around with one Q cell still intact. The cell she'd emerged from was on the other side of the frame. She's not the smallest queen I've seen mated and lay successfully so I left her alone.

The other 4 colonies have patches of worker brood on 3 or 4 frames. Looking fine and bringing in nectar along with pollens.

Humm ... will that virgin queen manage to mate? The only drones around are in the queen-laying colony but the temperature's low and unlikely to reach supposed mating levels any time soon. And can a queen lay successfully having mated from one colony only? Also, I'm not sure if the virgin-queen colony has any young bees. Maybe they're all on their last legs though there's plenty of them for now.

I could add a frame with brood from elsewhere but prefer to wait and watch. I'm very interested to see what happens. Any guesses?

[fatshark]

Any guesses?

This is when your queen should be out and mating ... I hope she's got an umbrella, galoshes and a warm scarf.

2668

[The Drone Ranger]

Any guesses?
14 day forecast says no
Mature drones in short supply
I would guess no the virgin wont mate

Possibly a new larva started now would be hoping for a mating flight in 3 weeks +
Better but not that good either

[Kate Atchley]

This is when your queen should be out and mating ... I hope she's got an umbrella, galoshes and a warm scarf.

2668

Working on it Fatshark ... sadly the microscopy exam syllabus didn't include knitting under the dissecting mic. But hey, I can work it out!

[Kate Atchley]

... I would guess no the virgin wont mate

Possibly a new larva started now would be hoping for a mating flight in 3 weeks +
Better but not that good either

I agree DR ... it'd would be something of a miracle if she mates. I'm disinclined to graft until or unless there are advanced drone cells or drones in other colonies, and I have not seen them.

[The Drone Ranger]

Your initial plan to put a frame of brood in might keep them ticking over till you can do something Kate

[Mellifera Crofter]

I posted earlier today, but to the wrong thread. So, here again, just to report that I finally managed yesterday to inspect all the colonies that floated down the Deveron and found all the queens alive and well.
Kitta

[Kate Atchley]

I posted earlier today, but to the wrong thread. So, here again, just to report that I finally managed yesterday to inspect all the colonies that floated down the Deveron and found all the queens alive and well.
Kitta

I saw that Kitta and rejoiced for you and your bees. What amazing creatures these are!

[EK.Bee]

Horrible smell in the apiary............
feared the worst ? foulbrood

turned out to be a dead fox a foot away from one of the hives
What a relief!

[The Drone Ranger]

Horrible smell in the apiary............
feared the worst ? foulbrood

turned out to be a dead fox a foot away from one of the hives
What a relief!

foulbrute ?

[Bumble]

Horrible smell in the apiary............

turned out to be a dead fox a foot away from one of the hives
Ugh, it's a truly revolting smell. There's one beneath a neighbour's summerhouse, not getatable without dismantling the building so it can't be moved or covered with soil. We're all hoping it will have finished decaying before the warmer weather gives us the chance to use our gardens for relaxation.

[Calluna4u]

Were out checking bees this morning. There was so much nectar midweek that we started supering in some locations. However, then we came across a couple of groups (from the same wintering group that the ones with all the nectar had been in) that were at the point of starvation. SHARP attention needed to this factor while this cold spell persists. They are wolfing their stores now as the brood area sharply increases, and the traditional seasonal warning from the NBU is very apt. It is being poo pooed by the usual suspects on 'other places' but its very timely in truth. Not all groups of hives are so lucky as to have perfect forage and genetics from bee heaven (You know the ones...they pull in abundant pollen and nectar at 5C with no flowers to get at. Very dangerous tripe when read by beginners who think that normal and stop looking.).

[nemphlar]

Timely warning I Supered half of mine last week and went round them today to distribute the leftover fondant to make sure these big hives don't starve, it's a challanging climate to keep bees

[The Drone Ranger]

Same here checking nucs today
More brood less food
lots of pollen going in though

[SDM]

This cold spell looks set to roll well into May, you guys won't see over 10°c much for the next 3 weeks at least. I need shares in Bako.
At least we now know the answer to " will your bees swarm in May"

[GRIZZLY]

Still haven't looked into mine. The weather has just been too cold and windy. Now it seems we're in for another cold weather bashing.Worst spell of weather in the 30 years I've lived here.

[Kate Atchley]

One of those taking the beginners' course asked me yesterday when the difference between Summer and Winter bees becomes evident. Are Winter bees reared as such from the start, in the brood nest, or do the differences develop later, as adults.

For that matter, anyone able to share what the differences are? I know about more fat bodies ... anything else?

[The Drone Ranger]

This cold spell looks set to roll well into May, you guys won't see over 10°c much for the next 3 weeks at least. I need shares in Bako.
At least we now know the answer to " will your bees swarm in May"

It does look like a long cold spell :)
Inside the hive though (if they are not starving out) they will be raising more brood
That's one of the problems when you if can't inspect because its too cold

[fatshark]

Which means if we do get a warm patch all hell breaks loose and it's swarmaggedon ...

We had this last year (? memory a bit fuzzy) in the Midlands. An extended cool patch. You could open hives and find sealed QC's with the old queen still running about. Then the temperature rose and it was berserk for a couple of days.

DR ... you'll be pleased to know I've sourced some Snelgrove boards ... I nearly got exposure applying a coat or two of wood preservative to them on Saturday evening having spent the afternoon dodging hail showers in the hills. Brrr!

[The Drone Ranger]

Is that vitellogelin or something Kate
They are reared as Winter bees from September laying I believe
The queen does lay small amounts sporadically in Winter though
I think that's likely to be important by Spring

[The Drone Ranger]

I'm glad to hear you are all organised Fatshark
When you see drone brood its game on :)

[Jon]

the traditional seasonal warning from the NBU is very apt. It is being poo pooed by the usual suspects on 'other places' but its very timely in truth.

I circulated the NBU warning to our association members last week. Some colonies could easily starve out with this week of cold weather coming up. A few litres of syrup is cheap insurance.

[Jon]

One of those taking the beginners' course asked me yesterday when the difference between Summer and Winter bees becomes evident. Are Winter bees reared as such from the start, in the brood nest, or do the differences develop later, as adults.

For that matter, anyone able to share what the differences are? I know about more fat bodies ... anything else?

I imagine almost all the winter bees have died off as colonies are on the second or third brood cycle by now.

[fatshark]

I'm glad to hear you are all organised Fatshark
When you see drone brood its game on :)

Just had a quick peek and seen my first play cups ... 8-9 frames of brood now on one of the hives in the shed.They've started putting a bit into the super but I'm going to have to put a second brood box on them ... once they've calmed down a bit, they're distinctly tetchy being opened on a day like today ;)

PS and to reiterate some of the above ... stores were low so I've given them a full frame or so from my stocks

[Jon]

Some of my queens have finally started to lay in drone cells so I should have drones flying by the end of May. 10th-15th May should be ok to start grafting, weather permitting.

[fatshark]

I previously removed a pizza slice of brood (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?2220-Queen-not-laying&p=35453&viewfull=1#post35453) (on the 11/12th of April) and the bees quickly refilled the gap with drone comb which is now all sealed. The same hive has some drones in it already. I suspect most of these will have passed their prime by the time we get weather suitable for mating :(

[Jon]

With drones you really need continuous production to be sure of having plenty at optimum fertility.

[mbc]

Popped a qx between the boxes on a strong double brood today, grafting commences in 9 days time, theres increasing numbers of drones about down here and I expect there'll be plenty by the time the virgins from the first batch are wanting nuptials.

[Mellifera Crofter]

... Are Winter bees reared as such from the start, in the brood nest, or do the differences develop later, as adults. ...

I don't think they're 'reared' as such - they just are. And they are winter bees mainly because they don't have to feed brood, and therefore their hypopharangeal and brood food glands remain young, and that in turn means, as DR said, high levels of vitellogenin and build-up of fat bodies. See Celia Davis, The Honey Bee Inside Out, page 147. I've just written Module 5 in March and made a bit of a hash of a question about vitellogenin and juvenile hormone - so, I won't try and expand on that!

Kitta

[Emma]

Two empty pairs of breeze blocks, some post-uniting newspaper fluff, a few foragers circling where an entrance used to be. After selling a queen and a nuc yesterday, today my apiary is down to 5 colonies. My plan for a boringly manageable beekeeping season is under way.

[Kate Atchley]

Bees ... 5 hives of them ... boring? How could that be Emma?!

[The Drone Ranger]

Two empty pairs of breeze blocks, some post-uniting newspaper fluff, a few foragers circling where an entrance used to be. After selling a queen and a nuc yesterday, today my apiary is down to 5 colonies. My plan for a boringly manageable beekeeping season is under way.
I would like to follow your example Emma
More is less when it comes to honey :)

[madasafish]

Two empty pairs of breeze blocks, some post-uniting newspaper fluff, a few foragers circling where an entrance used to be. After selling a queen and a nuc yesterday, today my apiary is down to 5 colonies. My plan for a boringly manageable beekeeping season is under way.

Those kind of sales resemble my plan to reduce the costs of my hobby to a more acceptable level :-)

[fatshark]

Brrr. Added second brood box to a colony in the shed ... a balmy 14C indoors ... 5C warmer than outside. Bees busy fetching water in the sunny bits between hail showers.

[greengumbo]

Wintery blasts again.

Still I managed to finally get round to ordering a load of hives from Swienty in Denmark and frame/wax from Wilara. Great service and very communicative......and a heap cheaper than what I could find in the UK.

One small step for a small scale beefarmer to be ;)

Prepare for panic as the swarms overcome me and the splits I make from existing hives don't take !

[busybeephilip]

Pretty darn cold here, was snowing for a short while. Some of mine are on double boxes with a super (plenty of dandelions about, blackthorn and chestnut starting), also young drones were present although have not seen any flying yet (there not stupid when its cold) supposed to be cold for a week then warm up again, no joke but I can see many beeks with strong hives loosing swarms in the next week or two.

[The Drone Ranger]

Bit cold but sunny here
Of the 14 keilers I took into Winter only 3 left now
My fault obviously but still a bit disappointing

[busybeephilip]

The Keiler is about the same internal dimension to the apidea, ? I never had much luck with trying to over winter apideas in that I gave up even trying, they always dies off in the spring. Jon overwinters his queens for spring in double apideas which I suppose gives them a better bee population and bigger food reserve. Just back from my local bee meeting, and the situation for most beeks seems not to good with many loosing all their bees and some colonies just not worth trying to nurse. Others are reporting hives full of bees and one person even reported having a queen cell so its a real mixed bag. The way I look at it is that it sorts out the bees with "good" genetics from those that do not have a good survival instinct so it can only be a good thing in the long run.

[Calluna4u]

Continuing the feeding programme. Many colonies getting desperate. Sitting on the OSR...getting zilch.

Some apiaries on an upward trend bees wise now, but most still not reached crossover day.......not seen any drones other than in colonies with problems. No drone brood in good stock, only less choice stuff. Will now not commence grafting until middle of May. Suppose it could be done earlier if trying to prove a point, but the results will not be optimal.

[prakel]

Will now not commence grafting until middle of May. Suppose it could be done earlier if trying to prove a point, but the results will not be optimal.


Knocked out a couple of supercedure cells yesterday for just that reason. Nice looking cells both with 11/12 day olds but what's the point of having worthless virgins wandering the combs. Drone numbers are improving at inland sites but May's often poor here so the odds are against the queens every time.

[greengumbo]

Continuing the feeding programme. Many colonies getting desperate. Sitting on the OSR...getting zilch.

Some apiaries on an upward trend bees wise now, but most still not reached crossover day.......not seen any drones other than in colonies with problems. No drone brood in good stock, only less choice stuff. Will now not commence grafting until middle of May. Suppose it could be done earlier if trying to prove a point, but the results will not be optimal.

The OSR is still a few weeks away from flowering up this way Murray. I recall you have a unit near Inverurie or is that someone else ? Some fields are showing patches of flowers but nothing significant. Hopefully the weather improves next week so that by the time it flowers the bees can take advantage.

I am still feeding colonies to be sure they are okay. The differences between the wooden and poly hives this year in particular is really obvious.

[The Drone Ranger]

The Keiler is about the same internal dimension to the apidea, ? I never had much luck with trying to over winter apideas in that I gave up even trying, .
Hi phillip
Quite a few were double keilers but once the stores run out and they are not able to fly due to weather (even with food in the compartment) they just seem to sit on the combs and die
In a way it shows why so many queens are imported every year

[Calluna4u]

The OSR is still a few weeks away from flowering up this way Murray. I recall you have a unit near Inverurie or is that someone else ? Some fields are showing patches of flowers but nothing significant. Hopefully the weather improves next week so that by the time it flowers the bees can take advantage.

I am still feeding colonies to be sure they are okay. The differences between the wooden and poly hives this year in particular is really obvious.

Will be up for a look in the next couple of days. Have 12 to 14 apiaries in the Monymusk/Kemnay/Castle Fraser area every year. They are an isolated unit that stays up there, only going to heather around Dinnet and Glengairn, then back out to their area of origin. Kept that way so no-one can point the finger at us for brining anything nasty into the area. They are still concentrated in 3 wintering sites and need distributing out to their OSR locations. Very low losses indeed up there this year. One the fingers of one hand out of 200....but drone layers etc still to be found. We do not do autumn uniting either, so this is the loss since heather stripping time, when the obvious duds are just shaken out.

[Emma]

Went out for a break from the computer, back of 5pm, because I saw something that looked a bit like sunshine. By the time I'd checked and rinsed a couple of varroa boards my hands were turning purple with the cold. The bees were flying. Nutters! Or locally adapted, who knows?
The longhive colony has dropped a big clutch of drone cappings & continues to forage avidly. I wrapped their leaky box at the start of the winter & by now it's dry. They've been expanding steadily backwards for the last few weeks.
They seem optimistic about the near future. Having driven slowly home through a blizzard tonight, I'm wondering whether they've judged it right.

[drumgerry]

Will be up for a look in the next couple of days. Have 12 to 14 apiaries in the Monymusk/Kemnay/Castle Fraser area every year.

I used to live just along from Castle Fraser C4U - near Achath Farm if that means anything to you. In fact it's where I took up beekeeping in 2004. Beautiful part of the country that I still have a great affection for.

In other news temp here reached 24C here in Speyside today and I see it reached 27C on Skye. Bees all over the Gean trees here. Wasn't someone saying the other week that we wouldn't be seeing double figure temps for most of May? Shows it doesn't pay too look too far ahead with Scotland's weather!

[SDM]

Wasn't someone saying the other week that we wouldn't be seeing double figure temps for most of May? Shows it doesn't pay too look too far ahead with Scotland's weather!


That would be me, it was referred to as a " high confidence" forecast from several sources. They don't often get a general trend like that so completely wrong.
Sometimes it's good to be wrong !

[The Drone Ranger]

Good weather for beekeeping

Ran into the only psycho bees so far this season
Trying to split for a Snelgrove they just got crazy
Got the job done but they followed me round the rest of the hives causing trouble

It was a bit later in the afternoon so I called it a day
They need re-queening before they start producing many drones
Because she went below the board she wont produce any for a while yet
Once I get a queen in the top I'll move the bottom box and squish her without the problem of vicious bees

[Feckless Drone]

Good weather for beekeeping


At work - but got the solar melt system out (hope the misses does not miss those tights) - does that count ?

DR- have I got this right, you are using the SN board before you see Q-cells, looking to get the bees raising new Q's to your schedule and ahead of the swarming urge?

I've tried both before the Q-cells appear and then as soon as I see them. Not sure I can really detect any difference in outcomes from a limited number of colonies/seasons. I hoped I might be selecting for non-swarmy bees by doing the former but I guess dream on or I need another million generations for the selection.

I got a problem in a colony - two Q cells really well stuck together, old Q still laying a bit, so I thought supercedure! I put the two cells above a SN board, Q below in standard way. Next week, Q still laying, 2 stuck cells together. Last year I had the same situation and screwed up both cells when I tried to take one down and ended up with a Q-less colony but this time I've left the two pairs of cells stuck together in top and bottom, moved the old Q to a nuc and changed SN entrances. So - top has bit of sealed brood with few foragers, bottom has lots of foragers, hardly any brood. The concern is that with >1 cell I may lose a swarm because there are still good numbers of bees top and bottom. I might try to pull one Q out early on Sunday (day 15 or 16) and see what happens. Any similar experiences out there?

[nemphlar]

I wouldn't trust a large hive not to swarm, I had one large hive swarmed 2 years ago with the only hatching cell and left themselves hopelessly queen less. Brushed them through a queen excluder before I gave them a new laying queen. They don't know best

[The Drone Ranger]

DR- have I got this right, you are using the SN board before you see Q-cells, looking to get the bees raising new Q's to your schedule and ahead of the swarming urge?


That's the plan anyway :)

Once they make queen cells they are inclined not to give up trying to swarm
Snelgrove says only use method 1 (normal) before queen cells are started
If you see cells use method No2 (Not always reliable)

With the problem double Q/cells Its likely the first virgin out will bop the noisy neighbour next door

[GRIZZLY]

Bees in a bloody minded mood today. In attendance wherever we are in the garden. In combination with the midges they are making life a bit difficult. We are wearimg midge nets so this keeps the bees and midges away from our faces and long sleeves protect the rest. They might be becoming candidates for re-queening.

[fatshark]

Mine were bolshy today as well ... they're usually lovely and calm and I've used the larvae for grafting. That'll teach me :(

[GRIZZLY]

Yes mine are usually nice but not for a day or two lately.

[madasafish]

Yes mine are usually nice but not for a day or two lately.

I have two colonies crying out for requeening. My sting count at 54 is roughly double last year's at this time...

Good thing I am a man and can bear it :-) Apologies for sexism... Bees are responding accordingly...

[fatshark]

Yikes ... 54. Two today, which is what I consider bolshy*
They're often tetchy when the OSR goes over, but it's got a while to go yet.

* maybe I'm not man-enough for beekeeping ;)

[The Drone Ranger]

Didn't open any hives today because of weather
It's switched to much cooler
I find if you p them off they take a while to forgive that
Yesterday I gave up with my queen rearing hive and stuck a Snelgrove board on instead
They of course have had a bit of messing about lately so with the cool weather they weren't too happy
Good thing is with the Snelgrove I don't need do inspections on them for a while ;)

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[fatshark]

I'm doing side-by-side comparisons with a Snelgrove (following your instructions carefully DR - logic dictates that your gate numbering has odd numbers on the top of the board) and a bog-standard split board on a couple of colonies.
Grafting last Sunday appears to have been OK with ~80% take. I'm using a Cloake board this year.
The stings were from a bulging double brooded colony (in my shed - so they got a flying start) which has just received it's fourth super (though two are nearly sealed and will be removed at the w/e).

[madasafish]

Yikes ... 54. Two today, which is what I consider bolshy*
They're often tetchy when the OSR goes over, but it's got a while to go yet.

* maybe I'm not man-enough for beekeeping ;)

54 is my Year to date figure. Six on the date referred to..

One hive is just mental...but very full so requeening is going to be carefully planned.. Don't fancy them Q- for any length of time...

[The Drone Ranger]

hi fatshark yes the traditional numbering runs as door 1 above door 2 on one side
door 3 above door 4 on the opposite side
then door 5 above door 6 on the rear
best of luck with it
John

Sent from my S208 using Tapatalk

[The Drone Ranger]

Over on the beekeeping forum some folk are trying out Snelgrove No2 method
They are calling it the Wally Shaw method

I'm not a fan of the method No2 myself
I have used it but when it doesn't work the results are a massive swarm

But if you find queen cells and you have a board there are plenty people who have used that method satisfactorily pl

I must count stings madasafish usually the fingers get them so I try to lift the offenders before they pull out their rear end

They can just come back more determined but I find if I fling them back in the top of the hive they just stay put 😃

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[gavin]

I'm just plodding along with my standard swarm control. It uses a lot of Paynes nucs (other makes are available) but it has several advantages. All queens clipped of course.

1. A few queen cups with eggs or proper charged queen cells? Go for it. Don't leave any eggs in queen cups if you are not going to split.
2. Queen comes out on a frame which is checked for queen cells, and into a Paynes nuc nearby, leaving the main box in place. Add a second frame of bees and stores to the nuc. Shake in young bees if you want it to grow quickly, otherwise leave as is. Feeding helps it build.
3. Two frames of foundation into the original box which is still on site.
4. If there are open and sealed queen cells in the main box remove the sealed ones. Otherwise leave alone for one week. If you've been visiting frequently you'll not have only sealed cells.
5. After the week, quickly check the old queen. In its weakened state the nuc doesn't usually make additional cells but it might.
6. Go through the powerful big box and leave only one good-looking queen cell.
7. Relax, that one's done for the year (or two).

It is simple and straightforward and uses a weekly schedule. Accounts for the additional queen cells made after the split. Gives a stonking set of boxes of bees for the summer and autumn flows. The new queen often lays up a whole box within a week of her starting laying. Foolproof as long as you inspect properly. And it leaves you with a nuc which can build to be a strong unit by the end of the season.

[fatshark]

That, or a close approximation, is also described in Adrian & Claire Waring's Teach Yourself Beekeeping*, which I consider one of the best books for beginners. The method is so straightforward and uses so little equipment I don't know why it isn't more often used as the recommended method on new beekeeping courses. Instead they usually get Pagden with stacks of boxes and someone facing the audience getting their right and lefts mixed up! Even the need to invest in a nuc box could be regarded as "a good thing" for a new beekeeper. Other than missing a QC in the nuc box - where you only have to check 2 frames - it's also pretty foolproof. Which is why I often use it :D

* this book now has a different title but a largely unchanged content

[gavin]

I'll look out for the book. Steve Rose on here was also championing putting the queen-right part to the side.

Later today the beginners at the association apiary will see the modification to generate lots of nuclei. The mature queen cells at the end of the week in the box(es) without the queen can be used to split into many nucs and if you arrange them in a semi-circle (or even a circle) you distribute the flyers amongst them. The small box remaining with the old queen is left at the side or behind. If you do this with a double brood colony (20 or even 24 frames of bees) you can generate up to 12 splits though 8 might be more likely.

Last year I started the season with 22 colonies. Five were used to generate nucs, the rest kept strong. Roughly ....

5 colonies x 8 nucs = 40 Paynes nucs plus 5 original queens
17 remaining colonies = 17 colonies + 17 nucs

Potential increase 22 to 79 while leaving 17 colonies to produce honey or to be used for queen rearing and mininuc production. Many splits with virgins failed last year in the poor summer so I went into winter with 65 stocks and came out with 59 (I think). In a better year I'd have had maybe 70 ... or in a harsher winter I may have been down to 50 or fewer.

As mbc pointed out there is a temptation to split your strongest stocks. If you can avoid that there is a better chance of a decent honey crop.

[fatshark]

I'm doing one of those circle splits tomorrow. A double brood into however many nucs I've got queen cells for plus the original Q (9 in total tomorrow I think). I've used the double brood colony as the cell raiser with a Cloake board.

I use my least pleasant (which is a positive way to say worst behaved) colony for this, whatever the strength, just to get rid of them. Finally, I get a bit paranoid about the bees in the split preferentially going back to the old queen so take her nuc to another apiary. Probably unnecessary from what you say.

And it looks like it's going to be sunny and warm :cool:

[Black Comb]

I use the method Gavin describes, i.e. nucleus method of swarm control. It suits me as I use a single BB.
I think beginners might find it a little daunting as the published material (Dave Cushman and I have also seen it on other sites) say that when doing the final check for QC's shake the combs (apart from the one with the chosen cell) to ensure there are no others. If you leave more than one they will swarm.
Any way, it works for me. I normally take the queen in the nuc box to another site so it does not lose flying bees.
This year I am trying out a modified Snelgrove using Ken Bastefields method as swarm prevention. Half way through so too early to say.

[Kate Atchley]

?? How do I reply with quotes from Gavin, fatshark and Black Comb!?

Fatshark, my reading of the Warings' book (now called Get Started in Beekeeping is that they describe a classic Pagden ... moving the queen into a box of fresh frames on one frame of brood (free of Q cells), the original brood box moved to the side. Flying bees can be drained from this after a week or so by moving it to the other side, before splitting into nucs or reducing the number of Q cells, as preferred.

I don't think I've seen Gavin's method described elsewhere and it seems the ideal plan for a weekly cycle of visits and settling a colony to be non-swarming for the rest of the season, fingers crossed.

My puzzle is this: moving the Q to a nuc with 3 frames in, say, May restrains her before she has reached peak egg-laying in June. So some potential brood is lost as she will lay only slowly in the small nuc.

The original colony will requeen but, almost certainly, mating and laying will be slower than for a virgin flying from a small nuc colony. So again, a potential for egg laying may be lost in that timing difference comparing "Gavin's method" with Pagden.

So what is the best method for the hobby beekeeper who's not constrained to weekly visits, but wishes to:

control swarming
create increase
harvest a honey crop?

Perhaps the answer is the same if the question is phrased: which method promotes the laying of the most eggs? Ah, but do I hear you say "this may depend where the bees end up"?

I'm aware that a large colony achieves disproportionately more nectar gathering than, say, two colonies each half its size. So the size of the main colony is clearly important for the harvest. In Pagden, much of the original brood is moved away from the main colony. Yet the queen, if strong, will build up and lay the fresh frames quickly in the large colony.

If, say, two colonies are created from the Pagden split-off Q cells these should build up in time to gather a surplus crop from the heather in these northern areas, especially if good weather prevails.

I'm using Gavin's method with one of the colonies at Strontian. But I sense Pagden is probably the overall winner, if beekeeping patterns allow. I'm interested to hear more from others about this.

[Black Comb]

Yes the nucleus method sounds great but in my experience there are 2 downsides.
1. You must fully inspect 9/10 days after removing the queen to knock down all QC's except your chosen one. Ideally shake the frames as if you miss one they will swarm. This is a nearly full queeless colony so they will be feisty.
2. There is a brood break. So, I take the queen in the nuc to another site and then bring back and unite before the main flow.
Yes Pagden has its advantages, some move the parent colony twice after the first manipulation to get plenty of flying bees back into the AS.

[fatshark]

Perhaps the Waring's' book has changed. My copy, 2006 ISBN 978-0-340-92563-8, has a section in Chapter 5 called The nucleus method. It was one of the few books that I've seen it described in ... but they also include the classic Pagden.

If it has changed it's a retrograde step as I think the method has advantages, notwithstanding the need to inspect the original colony. A well-timed brood break has significant advantages in terms of Varroa control, though I admit I'm not certain how to be sure of the timing ... which must be influenced by colony strength, forage availability and mite levels.

By coincidence I'm doing both methods today.

PS The circle split mentioned above is on Wednesday ... I'm getting ahead of myself, the cells aren't quite ready yet.

[Black Comb]

I've not seen the Waring book but this is the one I use
http://www.shropshirebees.co.uk/swarmnuc.doc

[Kate Atchley]

Perhaps the Waring's' book has changed. My copy, 2006 ISBN 978-0-340-92563-8, has a section in Chapter 5 called The nucleus method. It was one of the few books that I've seen it described in ... but they also include the classic Pagden.

If it has changed it's a retrograde step as I think the method has advantages, notwithstanding the need to inspect the original colony. A well-timed brood break has significant advantages in terms of Varroa control, though I admit I'm not certain how to be sure of the timing ... which must be influenced by colony strength, forage availability and mite levels...

No, the book hasn't changed fatshark ... my mistake, so sorry. I hadn't clocked Gavin's method was called the Nucleus Method and didn't notice it before "The Artificial Swarm".

Just returned from trip to check queen cells above two Horsley boards but the slides had been moved so bees could pass to and fro from below, through the Qx. No cells started! Will need to begin again ... maybe another method but on another day ... the sun's still blazing here as it has been all day. Glorious!

[fatshark]

Glorious here as well ... just removed my first supers and discovered that my attempt with a Snelgrove board has been a bit of a failure. Don't tell DR.

I didn't get on too well with a Horsley board the couple of times I've used it. In contrast, a very ordinary and unexciting vertical split with a 7 day turn of the colony appears (again - it's almost idiot proof which is why I like it) to all be going fine and dandy.

[The Drone Ranger]

Yes Pagden has its advantages, some move the parent colony twice after the first manipulation to get plenty of flying bees back into the AS.

Hi Black comb Pagden is expensive though
making a Snelgrove board about £5-00
Second broodbox for Smith £21 from Solway bees
Total about £26

Pagden you need another roof £21 floor £17.30 crown board £7.00 plus the broodbox £21
Thats £66.30 so more than twice the cost
Plus you have to lug the thing from one side to the other :)

[The Drone Ranger]

Glorious here as well ... just removed my first supers and discovered that my attempt with a Snelgrove board has been a bit of a failure. Don't tell DR.

I didn't get on too well with a Horsley board the couple of times I've used it. In contrast, a very ordinary and unexciting vertical split with a 7 day turn of the colony appears (again - it's almost idiot proof which is why I like it) to all be going fine and dandy.

Bad luck Fatshark did they just swarm anyway ?
Or did you not get a new queen mated

[fatshark]

All looked good from the outside when I checked at 7 days ... lots of bees going in and out of the front entrance and door 1. Popped the lid to check for QC's in the top and found the smallest queen I've ever seen being harried by the bees. D'oh! I must have missed a tiny sealed QC when assembling the boxes. Of course, there wasn't a single other QC present. I took a frame of eggs and young larvae from the bottom box and put it into the top after ejecting the midget queen* ... leaving the doors unaltered. I'll check again next w/e.

No swarms yet, loads of nucs to make up this week and lots of bait hive activity ... it's going to be a good week :cool:

* unfortunately, in doing this (she was being balled) I managed to drop her rather than squidge her so she's probably snuck into another box to wreak havoc. Not my finest beekeeping achievement.

[SDM]

No swarms yet, loads of nucs to make up this week and lots of bait hive activity ...

2 hits on baithives and 3 callouts yesterday (2 dead ends, 1 was just scouts( though the bait hive I left may well be full today) and the other was half a swarm( the wrong half) that Thad fallen down a chimney leaving 4 or 500 bees in a 90 yr olds living room and the main colony in next door's chimney, theirs is blocked inside and they are happy for the bees to stay so it was just opening the window to let them join the others. It was nice to have most of the street out and families whod spent the last few hours locked in their houses from fear, letting their kids feed syrup from their fingers to the stragglers. Watching the groundswell of opinion change from fear to fascination in so many people was a glorious end to a simply lovely days beekeeping !
Another week of 17-20°c and light winds forecast, there's a good flow of dark honey coming from the marshes....... happy days !

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi fatshark
You could harvest some of the new queen cells rather than door swap to get them taken down
Did they draw out some decent new comb in the bottom box for you or at least put some honey in the supers ?

[fatshark]

Hi DR ... there were no QC's in the top box. I think the presence of "Her Majesty the Midget" prevented them from being made. Hopefully, by not meddling with the doors for another week and by providing some larvae/eggs they'll get back on track.

That apiary is so-so for honey this season. My other site is going well, with another couple of supers being removed today. In fairness though, colonies in the latter are a lot stronger.

[Feckless Drone]

Hi - just noted short clip on the BBC (other channels are available) about a bee export activity. Interesting to see.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36430849

[Mellifera Crofter]

Yes, FD, interesting. I've often wondered how people prepare packaged bees, and now I know. Actually, no - I only know a bit. After they've smoked out all the bees, what do they do with the brood that's left behind?
Kitta

[Greengage]

Preparing packaged bees in 1936
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/busy-bees

[Mellifera Crofter]

Nice video, Greengage - but it's not about packaged bees, but about queen-rearing and the queens then being packed off for posting or export.
Kitta

[Greengage]

yes I knew that but from 1936 it was interesting.

[fatshark]

Todays news ... extracting :D
Tomorrows news ... discovering honey and wax spread on all the surfaces I didn't think I'd used :(

[Calluna4u]

Todays news ... extracting :D
Tomorrows news ... discovering honey and wax spread on all the surfaces I didn't think I'd used :(

Next weeks news following on from above.......Fatshark not doing the bees due to appointments with relationship counsellor.

[fatshark]

:)

FOR SALE

12 colonies
15 nucs
48 (empty) supers

One careful (but not very careful as my spouse and Relate counsellor rather forcefully point out) owner ...


This is a follow-up to Calluna4U's prescient post ... of course, it's an unwise beekeeper who ever publishes colony numbers where an irate/sceptical/ignored spouse might read them ;) ... and now back to the cleaning up :(

[Bridget]

Been some smarmy bees in our apiary recently. Collected a small swarm into a nuc on Sunday and another one from a juniper bush Monday - I nearly walked into it. Turned out they were the same guys! Poly nuc again and reduced the entrance to the excluder this time. came back from work this evening and taking a quick look round the policies - small swarm back in the juniper bush. I'm sad they will have to stay there till my husband returns tomorrow evening as I'm not allowed to have anything to do with the bees anymore. I'm not sure they will survive as temps down to 12 tonight. Wish we could work out what is going on. Never had a swarm before in five years, and now 3 but small. Colonies volume looks pretty much the same, no Beekeepers within 2 miles and no feral bees that we know of.


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[prakel]

Been some smarmy bees in our apiary recently.

Best sort them out before they join a certain clique and start posting on another forum -they've already got the primary qualification.

[SDM]

Best sort them out before they join a certain clique and start posting on another forum -they've already got the primary qualification.


What ? Are they English bees ?

[Calluna4u]

Been some smarmy bees in our apiary recently. Collected a small swarm into a nuc on Sunday and another one from a juniper bush Monday - I nearly walked into it. Turned out they were the same guys! Poly nuc again and reduced the entrance to the excluder this time. came back from work this evening and taking a quick look round the policies - small swarm back in the juniper bush. I'm sad they will have to stay there till my husband returns tomorrow evening as I'm not allowed to have anything to do with the bees anymore. I'm not sure they will survive as temps down to 12 tonight. Wish we could work out what is going on. Never had a swarm before in five years, and now 3 but small. Colonies volume looks pretty much the same, no Beekeepers within 2 miles and no feral bees that we know of.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Get your 'assistant' to stick a bar of open brood into it. That normally pins an unsettled cast(e). It will otherwise not settle until the virgins have sorted themselves out. Castes with multiple virgins (not at all unusual) are awkward to hive at times.

[Bridget]

Get your 'assistant' to stick a bar of open brood into it. That normally pins an unsettled cast(e). It will otherwise not settle until the virgins have sorted themselves out. Castes with multiple virgins (not at all unusual) are awkward to hive at times.

Thanks will do that as soon as he gets home


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[Bridget]

Best sort them out before they join a certain clique and start posting on another forum -they've already got the primary qualification.
Didn't have a clue until I just re read my post!! Better not edit it now.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Get your 'assistant' to stick a bar of open brood into it. That normally pins an unsettled cast(e). It will otherwise not settle until the virgins have sorted themselves out. Castes with multiple virgins (not at all unusual) are awkward to hive at times.

That's interesting. I caught a tiny swarm two days ago - really tiny - and wasn't sure whether it was a cast, or whether it was one of my virgin bees from a nucleus hive taking a rest on a mating flight. Anyway, I caught them and put them back in a nucleus hive - and they've stayed put. All my queens from established hives are home, and without any queen cells in the hives. I won't find out which virgin it was until I go through the nucs. But maybe I should follow your suggestion, then, C4U, and add a frame of open brood to the nucs before another virgin, or newly mated queen, decides to move house (and I didn't see it happen!).
Kitta

[Emma]

I think there's a bit of a flow on again. Wax being built, & filled with new liquid stores. But they're still quite keen on robbing, too, so I'm not sure. Wind's too loud to hear a hum from the limes, even if there is one, and the eye-level buds hadn't opened last time I checked. Anyone else got a flow on just now? Not so long ago it was all tetchiness and emptying stores combs round here.

[madasafish]

I think there's a bit of a flow on again. Wax being built, & filled with new liquid stores. But they're still quite keen on robbing, too, so I'm not sure. Wind's too loud to hear a hum from the limes, even if there is one, and the eye-level buds hadn't opened last time I checked. Anyone else got a flow on just now? Not so long ago it was all tetchiness and emptying stores combs round here.

Yes.. just started.. lime I think.