todays news

[gavin]

Today despite the slates shading the sun and snow glare some of the little blighters had decided to go for a spin with the inevitable results at -2 degrees[emoji25]


Maybe they're the Captain Oates (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1303-Bees-with-resistance-to-varroa-mites/page2) bees.

[gavin]

I'm thinking of scaling up.

http://www.sbai.org.uk/images/BFP.jpg

The fondant went on yesterday. Some of mine were a bit light in the autumn and are even lighter now. Well, they're a bit heavier again.

BFP are selling 12.5 kg of fondant at £8.78 which seems a decent price. Just over 70p/kilo, and less water than the various syrups.

[drumgerry]

That's a good price Gavin. I managed to get some cheap fondant through Bridget on here and I'm still working my way through it. I'm a great believer in whacking a big slab of the stuff direct on to the frame top bars above the cluster in the early months of the year as a belt and braces against isolation starvation.

[Bridget]

Wow Gavin BFP is where I get my fondant from but it's never been below £10 a box. Maybe it's because everyone has finished icing their Christmas cakes! Seriously though - it worries me that it can get pretty hard even above the brood and I was worried that it was because its a cheap commercial option. Do you reckon it's OK?


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[drumgerry]

It's absolutely fine Bridget. I used it all last winter and the bees dealt with it without a problem. The bees ate all but a few remnants which admittedly were pretty hard. Remember as well that some people just moisten sugar bags and stick it on top of the bees and although I've never done it I'm pretty sure what the bees don't eat of that would become pretty hardened by Spring time.

I'm certainly not convinced enough to buy really expensive Apifonda or the like although I have used that in the last. Not seeing much difference between the expensive and the cheap so worry not!

[gavin]

I don't think that I've ever had it below £10 either, sometimes several pounds above. Looks like the international price for sugar has been falling to take it to 2009 levels:

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=sugar&months=120&currency=gbp

http://www.sbai.org.uk/images/sugar.jpg

Some commercial beekeepers use only bakers fondant. To stop it drying, wrap it in plastic and make a few slits on the underside to show the bees the way in. The simplest way is to take the 12.5 kg bag in the box shape and cut it right through the middle with a big knife then you have the plastic protecting the fondant. Either use the half block, cut side down (with or without a slit plastic or greaseproof paper covering), or the whole block opened out like a book. There are more details and pitures on the Stratford on Avon Beekeepers website (http://www.stratfordbeekeepers.org.uk/PENotes/Fondant.htm). It doesn't dry out when protected by the plastic it comes in.

And yes, the bees winter well on bakers fondant, applied now or even in the autumn.

[drumgerry]

Great suggestions Gavin! I have been slicing a block into 5 and wrapping the slabs in greaseproof paper. A little cutout in the paper allows the bees access. And as I said the bees seem happy enough with it.

[Mellifera Crofter]

I inspected all the colonies today, and then noticed these bite marks on one of the hives. One on the front of the hive by the entrance (the first two photos) and another at the back as well as some scratch marks near the top (the third photo). Can anybody think what animal could have done this? I doubt that it's one of my cats(!) and my husband doubts that they're even bite marks - but I imagine that I can see a row of tooth marks. Any ideas?
K
2180 2182 2181

[drumgerry]

Pine marten? Looks like teeth to me!

[Mellifera Crofter]

If it is a pine marten, then that would be interesting! I've never seen one around here - but then, I've never seen badgers either and I know they are here (I've seen the dead ones on the roads).

In either case, I don't know how big their mouths or teeth are. Your suggestion made me look at some pine marten images, and I thought their front teeth seem to be in a much straighter line than the marks on the hive. Well, I'm glad you agree with me that the marks do look like teeth marks, Drumgerry!

Kitta

[Bridget]

We have stacks of pine marten here Kitta . Very fierce little chaps, hated by the game keepers and predators of squirrels and birds eggs and little chicks amongst others. We have nut boxes for the squirrels and before we had a dog would see them during the day. Now we just see the reflection of their eyes at night.
However would they be going after honey bees? They are meant to love jam so maybe have a sweet tooth! I've seen mice tooth marks on my polys but much smaller than on your hive. A mystery indeed.


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[drumgerry]

I'm certainly not an expert in teeth marks Kitta! But I'm sure some of the local wags will be along any minute with some more entertaining suggestions! Yes I'm looking at you Mr Ramsay!

Re pine martens we've lost a fair few chooks to them and I once had one chasing one of our hens round the garden before it noticed I was trying to scare it off. Fierce predators indeed. Not sure about them having a penchant for honey but it wouldn't surprise me.

[alclosier]

Badger or fox? Looks like animal bites to me.

[Castor]

Badger or fox? Looks like animal bites to me.


Yeti. Clearly Yeti.

[Jon]

Esther Rantzen?

[gavin]

Damn! I was going to ask whether you have toddlers on the loose in Aberdeenshire hills in winter but I've been upstaged already!

Badgers do sometimes try to break into hives.

[gavin]

A badger - and many other animals - ought to be showing incisors which appear absent on your new-style Swienty. Which tends to point back to Jon's suggestion of Ester R.

https://f1.ehive.com/4145/1/b8qo27_1ebl_m.jpg

[alclosier]

If it's Aberdeen it could be a feral haggis? I hear they get frisky and territorial around this time of year due to the annual cull.

[chris]

I've lost colonies to pine martens. They tend to use their claws rather than their teeth. They'd go through a polyhive in about 10 secs.

[Bridget]

Get a squirrel box up with peanuts Kitta and then maybe they will leave your hives alone.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B002TW9XT6/ref=pd_aw_sbs_lp_3?refRID=0MM8NJ9KDCRQRQC7N1K5


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[Mellifera Crofter]

A pine marten sounds even more terrifying than a yeti! As my hive is still standing, I hope it's neither of those two. I haven't spotted Esther Rantzen either. So, I suppose the culprit is either a badger or a haggis. Thanks for the suggestions.

Bridget, is the squirrel box intended for a pine marten (which I hope isn't here) or for a badger?

Kitta

[Bridget]

The squirrel box goes up in the tree and filled with bird peanuts. It attracts squirrels during the day and pine marten at night. Of course whether there are any of either will depend on the trees in your area. Pines are what's needed


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[GRIZZLY]

Ye gods the bees were flying hard today with just a hint of whins pollen coming in. Managed to finish feeding with candy - so far all the colonies are showing activity. high hopes for a good 2015.

[Jon]

Yep. Looking good so far.
Very different from Spring 2013 when significant losses had already occurred by February.
There will be a real glut of bees in the UK this year if winter survival has been good all over. (Imaginary neonic armageddon notwithstanding)
UK Colony numbers must have increased greatly in 2014 as the winter 2013/2014 was favourable and the summer in 2014 was the best for years.

[Jimbo]

Checked all my colonies today ( should say a quick look under the crown board and a heft). all doing well with no colony losses so far. Some colonies out flying and a small amount of pollen going in. All looking good for 2015


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[Bridget]

Agreed all well here though no hint of pollen as the snowdrops are not even out yet. Bees must have badly needed to fly as barely 5 degrees in the sun so a few bodies in the snow but candy stores still good and still uncapping stores in two hives.


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[greengumbo]

Bees flying strongly from my garden hives last four days :) Great to see. They are piling onto the aconites and the primula and also perching on mossy stones getting water.

Only bad news was that the a very small mini-nucs worth of bees is dead. They were weak going into winter and I stupidly thought I could nurse them through and have an early queen ready to go. No great loss but still annoying !

I noticed that there are great differences between my two garden hives in terms of flying times. Sun hits them at the same time in the morning but one has been out and about from 9sih and the other not until 12. They are similar strength but different queen lineages so I suspect this has something to do with it.

[busybeephilip]

I too am experiencing a lot of water carrying bees, they are raiding my watering cans, bags of peat moss and flower pots that are in the sun shine. They are ignoring anything in the shade. So far losses are minimal, just 2 hives (4%) - one was very strong in the autumn with a double box treated with thymol apilife var but when i came to do the OA dribble there was no bees in it at all not even dead ones and loads of stores. The other box was requeened in the autumn but the bees dwindled away with no sign of a queen in the remaining bodies. My apidae was a goner after the last hard frost even though there was loads of stores in it with the queen laying. Remaing hives seem to be much stronger than previous years and crownboards are already warm to the touch in the stronger boxes.

Very busy getting things ready for the new season, making foundation, floors, crownboards, single frame queen mating nucs etc for the onslaught of approaching expansion which can go out of control so quickly when your short of kit

[Pete L]

Very busy getting things ready for the new season, making foundation,

Talking about foundation, the solvent (release agent) i bought from Germany and mentioned in the blog, is excellent stuff, bought five liters of it and only needed 90ml so far to make over 5,000 sheets of foundation, so that solvent will be enough to last me a long time.

[busybeephilip]

At 5000 (roughly 650lbs wax) sheets youre doing well and at about £1 per sheet youve got your money back already on the rollers. I make 1000 std brood and 500 shallow, that gives me enough for my own use and to sell some to others. just wondering, do you dip or roll the blanks?

[Pete L]

do you dip or roll the blanks?

I make wax tablets, Phil, usually eighteen inches long (460mm) These i make 8mm thick, and then lots of them are stacked into a thermostatically controlled heated water tank, a few hours before being embossed, each tablet produces approx 14 to 15 ft of foundation when embossed, depending on exact thickness and length of tablet used of course.

[busybeephilip]

Ahh, we think alike, I do similar with an old grant waterbath, but i get a shorter foundation length, I make mine 2.4 - 2.5 mm thick (same as thornnnes) this gives 8 std brood to the pound, cut 2-3 sheets at a time with a stanley knife and ply template. I'd love to get a drone base but they are just to expensive now and i dont think thoornes do them any more.

[Pete L]

Yes, i would also like some drone base embossing rollers.

I did knock up another wiring board last month, one for doing the W pattern type wiring into the foundation, much quicker than the old board, which I've had for many years, and was second hand when i got it.

[drumgerry]

I've had this brainwave to set up a Youtube channel and over the course of the season film my beekeeping activities. One of the things I wanted to do was film the bees on as many types of forage as possible. Today I started off with the classic....snowdrops! Please forgive my naff commentary - most embarrassing!


http://youtu.be/wNE8WkDG59o

[Castor]

Please forgive my naff commentary - most embarrassing!

****applause!****

Your commentary isn't naff, it's great.
More please!

[drumgerry]

You're being far too kind there Castor but I appreciate it!

[Don Ember]

All four of my colonies flying strongly today; snowdrops out across the churchyard a big draw. Jon may like to hear this news.

[chris]

I've had this brainwave to set up a Youtube channel and over the course of the season film my beekeeping activities.

Over the next couple of months I'll be moving to a more civilized place where I'll be able to access broadband, and for the first time be able to watch videos. I look forward to watching your films. Especially if your spoken word is as sharp as your written one ;-)

[drumgerry]

Hi Chris thanks for the compliment...I think! ;) I suspect the written word has more of a cutting edge but I'm working on it. Good luck with your move and the getting of a decent internet connection. Our broadband is barely worthy of the term but there's lots of fibre optic cables being put in around here so we'll be on superfast soon! Now that I am looking forward to.

[gavin]

Lovely video for the traditional February 'bees on snowdrops' theme. To encourage Chris to get a move on, there's an intriguing accent to discover with the video. Where did you find that?

[drumgerry]

Born and raised in Glasgow (Maryhill). But surrounded by all these back As in Moray I'm not sounding so Glaswegian any more?! I can still do a mean ned impression when the moment calls for it though!

[Jon]

I'll have to do one with my dulcet tones from Belfast.
Great to see the bees out and about again Gerry.
I would say a few colonies have started brood rearing now.
I have noticed a bit of heat in the crown boards.
The temperature has been rising in the hives at the association apiary which have Arnia monitors inside.

2190

[gavin]

Thought you were from Glasgow, Gerry, yet there was a northern lilt to some of that I thought. Nowt wrong with a guy who picks up something of the local ways. My only foray into Dundonian comes when I'm taking the piss of someone ordering a peh. There tend to be hundreds of them at United matches so I just keep schtum.

At last I have a day with time on my hands back at base and it turns cold, windy and dreary.

[drumgerry]

You're probably wise to keep your own counsel at the United matches Gavin. I once took a Scouser to a Celtic match and he insisted on singing very loudly "Matchstalk Cats and Dogs" using the original lyrics - in an ironic way. We almost didn't get out with our lives! (for the uninitiated there's a Celtic song to the same tune with er....different lyrics!).

And Jon get filming and narrating!

[Neils]

Moved the bees up today despite Gavin's reservations over landrover suspension :D

That bit went ok apart from screwing my back in but while I was up I had a good look around and there is one hive with clear external signs of Dysentry and a hive with a polycarb board that also has a lot of poo on the top bars and no bees coming to investigate. This is not looking like a good winter so far, all were fine on new years eve when we treated with OA and slapped on some fondant.

[GRIZZLY]

Signs of dysentry in two of my hives with bees defecating slightly on the hive fronts. I don't think its too sinister - more likely the bees having to put up with temperature shooting up and down and the bees having to overwinter on pollen rich honey filling the bees with solid material. The fouling was very watery and full of pollen residue. Anyway its too cold still to go into the hives for even a brief look-see.

[Pete L]

Spent the weekend down in Dumfries-shire being taught II by Michael Collier. Now there's a man with some stories to tell! Brilliant to see and try the whole process from beginning to end. Loads of stuff the Cobey video doesn't even mention. Learned about the limitations of the instrument I bought (Schley with fixed posts) but working with Michael to solve that problem. Going to need to practice lots and lots to get even semi competent.

Brilliant weekend and highly recommended. Michael is a top guy and if you're buying kit get it from him and take advantage of the great advice he'll give you.

Gerry, how about a progress report, interested in how well you got along doing II after your return from the course.

[drumgerry]

Ah Pete I decided not to proceed with my II plans. The more I got to know the less approriate it seemed for my circumstances. I had no idea of the time and commitment it requires and my circumstances just aren't suitable for that. Plus I live in an area where natural mating within strain is pretty good as there are few beekeepers and lots of natural obstructions in the form of bloody great mountains. So...I'd have been better thinking about all that before I bought the kit but you live and learn. As it is I've sold it on to a friend of Gavin's who is keen as mustard and who I'm sure will do the subject justice. Thanks for the advice and all the best, Gerry

[Castor]

Good News! <In a James May sort of voice>
All 14 mine have now been checked - 100% survival, just about the right level of stores left, no evidence of nosema, all looking feisty and pulling in some pollen...

I love this time of year...lots of plans and decisions to be made...

[Jon]

Seems to have been another good winter for bees. A lot of my nucs are over 4 or 5 frames which is great for this time of year.

[mbc]

Good News!

I love this time of year...lots of plans and decisions to be made...

+1
I'm trying to sketch out some of my plans on paper this year, as in the past the well laid out plans have gone out of the window as soon as things get busy!

[GRIZZLY]

MBC you'd best start by teaching your bees to read.

[Poly Hive]

Went to the bes this afternoon, temp at 12C in glorious sunshine with avery light breeze. The bee tree has survived the winter and was flying a bit. The hives though were roaring, major orientation flights going on and the only slight disapointment was no pollen seen arriving. The crocus is out now so hopefully they will find it soon.

PH

[Wmfd]

A nice time spent in the garage, even better with the wind and rain outside, putting together:

One commercial brood (3rd from the T's sale)
Two supers (2nds from the T's sale)
Two commercial nuc box OMF's (own design from bits and pieces in the garage)


Part of my, I must be better organised, resolution!

[GRIZZLY]

I hope everything went together O.K. Wmfd., I bought 6 off 2nds nat b.boxes and was only able to construct 5 . Seems to be a total lack of any sort of quality control. Boards with missing edges ., top and bottom bars with deep gouges and missing edges and - worst of all made from undried soaking wet timber. I have got a moisture meter and measured the moisture level at 30 0/0 - about 3 times what it should measure. When I tackled one of Thorne directors about it - was fobbed of with a telephone "shrug" and the comment well it goes together doesn't it ? . Not good enough in my estimation. They actually refunded me for the hive I couldn't put together but still a disgrace. I just wonder what sort of shape the hives will adopt after drying out in my workshop

[Wmfd]

Thanks Grizzly,

The supers have gone together pretty well, and the wood isn't wet. After an unfortunate incident with parallelogram supers a few years ago I've made up a jig to make sure they are square and they look pretty good. I even managed to get another together after we'd been out to watch "Shaun the Sheep" at the cinema - so three more to add to the pile.

The brood was a different story, the finger joints were too tight, stripping wood off as I put together and a knot in one corner, so the corner came apart. I've glued it back together, put in extra screws and fortunately it isn't in a particularly load bearing place, so fingers crossed it'll be OK.

A pile of national brood thirds from the sale is my next challenge. I had some thirds supers in the year before last, and they were very variable, very wet wood, bendy and a lot of filler required. I've yet to open these, so we'll see. I thought they were supers when I grabbed them in the scrum at the sale, so I'm going to need to make up some Hamilton converters which may allow me to cover a multitude of sins, or make some. By the time I'm finished I'm not sure how much of a bargain they're going to turn out to be!

David

[busybeephilip]

I did not buy any this year or last from T but the year before that I got a load from T that seemed to fit together ok and did not have many knots. Also bought a load from Maisymore that same year, they went together with no problem and even though they were pine the quality was perfect with very little warping of the side boards. I now have the equipment to make my own and just have to finish making a few jigs.

It appears from the posts above that T is perhaps not able to purchase decent cedar timber that they use for making "seconds" so as to keep the price at a minimum after all they are in the game of making money with perhaps at least 50% profit to cover overheads. Also the best of the seconds is likely to be kept for shows and the maybe the crap posted out to vulnerable beeks. The cedar does not seem to be as dense as was used years ago and I have had some of my recent T cedar seconds starting to rott along the bottoms even though they were cuprinol treated. The timber is soft seems to soak up water while other older boxes which are a bit dented and knocked about show no sign of rotting or softening of the wood

Does anyone make frames from planks of deal - given the correct jigs it would seem to be a fairly simple process apart from time taken. Considering that they are about £1 (ex sale) it is perhaps becoming worthwhile

Phil the Beekeeper

[Pete L]

Does anyone make frames from planks of deal - given the correct jigs it would seem to be a fairly simple process apart from time taken. Considering that they are about £1 (ex sale) it is perhaps becoming worthwhile


We use either Scots/Corsican pine, also used Western Hemlock for a few years now, found that white wood such as Norway spruce to be not much use, due to being too weak/soft in use and too much warping of the frames.
Does not take long to make frames if using enough dedicated machines and jigs for each operation in the process.
Filled a kiln with Hemlock for frame making last Friday, boys are out saw milling up the last of five large Hemlocks for frame making right now.

[GRIZZLY]

Filled a kiln with Hemlock for frame making last Friday, boys are out saw milling up the last of five large Hemlocks for frame making right now.[/QUOTE]

Nice to have a kiln. I had one down south when I was in the bespoke furniture business ( dehumidifier type ) and it was worth its weight in gold. Thornes have not got one it would seem - based on the wet rubbish they are currently turning out. English cedar is not really fit for purpose ., its full of knots - quite a lot of of them dead knots that rot and fall out. Making frames is very simple as long as you do a whole large batch operation by operation. If you have several machines you can set up several operations at once., passing the components to each successive machine in turn.

[Pete L]

English cedar is not really fit for purpose ., its full of knots - quite a lot of of them dead knots that rot and fall out.

Some very good English grown WRC can be found, but you need to select your own trees...not just order 20 tonnes from the likes of euro forrest. Timber needs to be as old as possible, slow grown, large diameter, small growth rings, preferably from on top of hills rather than fast growing in swampy valley bottoms. The first 12ft section or butt section is the best, the heartwood only, this is often very clear timber with no knots, further up the smaller diameter timber is used mainly for side bars, avoiding using anything with knots, especially dead knots. The white sapwood which i notice in the pictures of some of suppliers of cheap cedar hives, should not be used at all, it is not durable like the heartwood.


Making frames is very simple as long as you do a whole large batch operation by operation.

I agree, we make enough for our own needs between 15 to 20,000 each season, although last season being what it was had to make another 3,000... about two thirds of the way through the season.

Edit, i believe another reason for the more knotty timber being used by many that just order a load of cedar, is that many commercial sawmills don't want to mill these very large butt sections because they tend to have a lot of large flutes, making it awkward for the sawmills, nice round logs from higher up the tree are much easier and faster to mill...and more knotty.

[gavin]

Brilliant to have such expertise on tap. Thanks Pete.

[SteveW316]

Just too cold and windy here today!!

[prakel]

Noticed that Mann Lake have added their National/Hybrid/WBC/Commercial boxes to their UK website as well as 8 frame langstroths and some price revisions on the langstroth boxes. Worth a look...

[mbc]

I've got the sparkly new catalogue :)
Some interesting stuff too, waxed cardboard nuc boxes for a fiver.
Got a sample of the "standard" supers too, not very impressed with the quality of timber, maisemores and thrones do better "seconds" for £1.50 more.

[prakel]

I've got the sparkly new catalogue :)

We're still waiting for the 2014 one!

Shame if the quality is so poor.

[prakel]

Not really today's news but could someone point me to the thread which was posted a year or so ago that links to an online mapping programme that draws a radius around a certain point such as an apiary site (I'm not referring to beebase)?

[gavin]

Not really today's news but could someone point me to the thread which was posted a year or so ago that links to an online mapping programme that draws a radius around a certain point such as an apiary site (I'm not referring to beebase)?

Here you go: http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1281-Drawing-a-circle-on-Google-maps-Obeattie

[prakel]

Thanks. Couldn't remember it's name.

[Castor]

3 miles is enormous...... I really hadn't realised......

[Poly Hive]

7.and a bit square miles I think, making the odd plot of flowers in a garden a bit....
Then again mony a mickle maks a muckle.

PH

[busybeephilip]

Hi Pete,

Probably a bit off thread her but I was wondering how many beekeepers wire the frames instead of the foundation. wiring frames gives stronger support than the diagonal thorne type wiring I ask cos I was wondering how easy is it to recyle wired frames.

Still trying to figure out how the thornes foundation wiring machine (yellow box in new catalog) works

[Pete L]

Hi Phil, i have always used the wired foundation, just that i dislike having to wire frames, plus we sell some ready assembled frames in our beehives, and i would not like the idea of wiring all the frames and fitting foundation to sell.

Not figured out how the modern type wiring machine works in the single picture, but the one at the top where they are using four wiring boards are similar to what we use...except ours is better and faster than that method, ours actually tensions the wire and heats the wire just by pressing a foot pedal, and a red indicator light comes on, on the face of the board, to indicate the circuit is complete, no separate switch to press like those in the picture.

[busybeephilip]

Pete - have sent you a message

[Wmfd]

Visited my out hives yesterday, a lovely sunny day but mixed feelings. Two hives dead, one had blown over and hit the other some weeks ago but there were still bees in both when I righted them at that time.

I've concluded that it is largely beekeeper error. The site is just too exposed really, lovely in summer but too little shelter against the flat fenland wind. So blaming myself for the losses.

Moving the other hives alongside back home to shelter in the garden, so may help their buildup.

Other hives, which were less exposed, looking good.

David

[Calum]

yup, the bees were flying strongly and getting loads of pollen yesterday here too.
One that wasnt gathering pollen -checked - no queen, only two frames of bees, no eggs... so in with the sulphur strip unfortunately.
18 good from 19 is a good result. My two apprentices have no losses so far so smiles all round.

[Poly Hive]

FWIW I never recycled wired frames apart from stripping the wax and wire out and starting over. I used four horizontal wires in Lang and three in Nat, brood that is.

PH

[Calluna4u]

Quite so PH.

Gavin saw a stack here this morning. Have two guys cleaning out 70 boxes a day in about 3 hours (then the water/soda mix gets too dirty) ready for immediate rewaxing.

Initial cost of cross wiring the frames is significant, but so is the premium for wired foundation, and you get a stronger flatter job than with diagonally wired foundation. It takes my guys about 25 minutes to cross wire a box of frames, but you have to add to that about 10 minutes for drilling and eyeletting if not previously done (one of our guys made a jig for doing this four eyelets at a time, so its fast). Once done (and you need to use very good grade wire that does not stretch), certain circumstances excepted, then its done for many years. Saves at least 20 minutes a box every time you renew the wax.

After the boil clean the rewaxing job only takes about 10 minutes per box, including retensioning the wires if needed. If the frames are very strong the retensioning is less likely to be needed.

The wax is also significantly cheaper. Own wax milled by 'T' this spring, immaculate job btw, cut to our special slightly undersize dimensions (you do NOT go into the grooves or bottom bars with this system) works out at 11p a sheet (excl VAT), of course for a like for like comparison you have to factor in the value of the wax.

We use four wires in BS deep rather than your three, but apart from that its the same. We just value the extra strength for extracting ling honey.

[Mellifera Crofter]

... (you do NOT go into the grooves or bottom bars with this system) ...

Does anyone know if one can get National frames without grooves?
Kitta

[fatshark]

Reverse the side bars ... voila!

[Calluna4u]

Does anyone know if one can get National frames without grooves?
Kitta

Not from UK makers as a standard, but they can take some off before the groove is cut into them, as it is generally a separate operation. Just reversing the side bars leaves the 'V' pointing the wrong way if you have Hoffman type, and are going to have a mix of UK conventional and prewired frames. It is also best to get bottom bars for Manley style frames for the cross wiring way of working rather than the simple straight bottoms. The notched end gives the side bar something solid to push against when the wires are truly taut. The corners breaking out can be an issue otherwise. Thus you will gather that DN1 and SN1 type frames are never used here.

Talking at CABA on Friday so if anyone want this demonstrated then happy to do so.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thank you, Fatshark and Calluna. I was blushing blood red, Fatshark, until I saw Calluna mentioning the Hoffman issue. I guess my mentor will also tell me that reversing the bars will still leave a groove for wax moths to make use of (not that I've ever had a wax moth problem).

I would have loved to come to the talk, Calluna, but unfortunately I won't have the time and, secondly, I don't have a clue which BA starts with CA! I only found American ones.
Kitta

[gavin]

I would have loved to come to the talk, Calluna, but unfortunately I won't have the time and, secondly, I don't have a clue which BA starts with CA! I only found American ones.
Kitta

Well worth the 190km journey (as the crow flies). If you are really lucky he might teach you a few choice Polish words, as he did with me earlier tonight. ;)

Clyde Area Beekeepers Association (http://clydeareabeekeepers.blogspot.co.uk/), as far as I know an umbrella group for the associations in the Glasgow area.

[fatshark]

Thank you, Fatshark and Calluna. I was blushing blood red, Fatshark, until I saw Calluna mentioning the Hoffman issue.

I think I'd assumed you'd do the entire box … but, like top beespace, you'd not be compatible with others (or presumably any of your own frames) who didn't do the same thing … which I didn't think of so am also blushing. D'oh!

[Calluna4u]

Well worth the 190km journey (as the crow flies). If you are really lucky he might teach you a few choice Polish words, as he did with me earlier tonight. ;)

Clyde Area Beekeepers Association (http://clydeareabeekeepers.blogspot.co.uk/), as far as I know an umbrella group for the associations in the Glasgow area.

Spot on Gavin. Its a rearranged date after an inadvertant mix up over dates. I was booked for 10th, but the hall for 17th, however I have a previously arranged talk to give in South Gloucestershire on 17th, so a quick bit of footwork by both them and us fixed up the talk for Friday 13th.

Jolanta is going too to take some questions about the queen and nuc breeding project, which is her responsibility. Brave of her as she is not 100% confident in English yet, has never been in front of an audience before, as there is the potential for the odd awkward, even hostile, question or two from that particular audience.

They are a great group though, and intelligent questions flow freely from the floor, which I especially enjoy. Been there several times over the years and they have been up to our place. They have a summer trip booked to the breeding unit, though it is still in its early stages of development.

[drumgerry]

Calluna - is it possible for other associations to visit your breeding unit? I'm secretary of Spey Beekeepers which is a pretty new association.

[Calluna4u]

Yes of course. I also take heather visits, so those associations nearby (or not so nearby sometimes) can see what we are doing and that we don't have 3 heads or anything, nor are a major threat to them.

[drumgerry]

If you don't mind I'll PM you about this - I agree it's better to put mistrust aside and the best way to do that is face to face. And I'm delighted to see commercial beekeepers enacting their own breeding programme. A truly progressive step in my opinion.

[Calum]

Balls just been voted onto the association committee


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[gavin]

Balls just been voted onto the association committee
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What about the rest of you? :o

It is a slippery slope. Before you know it you'll be running forums and spending your days in meetings with government.

[Calluna4u]

Thank you for the warm reception last night at the CABA meeting in Scotstoun. As usual a lively audience and lots of very pertinent questions..............and not many impertinent ones <G>. It could probably have gone on for several hours....

[Calum]

What about the rest of you? :o

It is a slippery slope. Before you know it you'll be running forums and spending your days in meetings with government.
lol, thanks, yes the rest of me too.
Now trying to negotiate a site for our beekeeper training from the local government (they can shine/greenwash a bit in the newspaper by letting us infest a scrap of land)
want to try to set up beekeeping lessons for refugees in the area as a form of therapy, and to help them meet people from the community/ intergrate.
and maybe revamp the association website with more information....

[gavin]

Brilliant ideas, particularly like the refugees idea. And I'm glad that they have taken you on intact ...

C4U - glad you got out alive. I think that one them reserved his feistiness for seeing me on Saturday at the SBA AGM.

Yesterday on the way to the Cup Final (thanks to me being a passenger rather than driver) I saw my first willow trees of the season in full bloom near that patch of land that tends to flood east of Auchterarder. I always take that as a sign that spring has finally arrived, more or less.

[Calluna4u]

C4U - glad you got out alive. I think that one them reserved his feistiness for seeing me on Saturday at the SBA AGM.


Puts on angelic hat and innocent look................ I wonder who you mean Gavin. Plainly I have no idea.

Maybe I got them fired up on Friday night about a particular topic of a coleopteran nature...........sorry!

Nice about the willows though. I have over 100 hives wintering not a country mile from that very spot...if its the same one. Bottom of Cairnie Braes where the A9 crosses the Earn.

Off in an hour or so headed south. Got a talk near Bristol tonight (South Gloucs BKA) then back to Cirencester, where we have about 180 colonies wintering on an estate nearby.

[gavin]

Bottom of Cairnie Braes where the A9 crosses the Earn.


That's the place. Didn't spot them again when passing yesterday but it is not so easy when you're driving. (yes, football again - don't ask!) Willows, like sycamore and some other trees, tend to have different individual flowering times rather than everything coming in one rush. A reasonable strategy when your pollination is done by selective far-flying insects.

Hope you were spreading the gospel in Gloucs that we're heading for a new era in beekeeping where the watch-words are sustainability, biosecurity, self-reliance, and home production of stocks? :p

[Jon]

Hope you were spreading the gospel in Gloucs that we're heading for a new era in beekeeping where the watch-words are sustainability, biosecurity, self-reliance, and home production of stocks? :p

That and irony!

[Calluna4u]

Hope you were spreading the gospel in Gloucs that we're heading for a new era in beekeeping where the watch-words are sustainability, biosecurity, self-reliance, and home production of stocks? :p

Lol. You would think that, in all the years it has been thought of, that if it was truly feasible it would have been done long ago. Your list illustrates the main reason it has not been done. All good secure sounding words...................but without one other word added in it is eternally doomed to either failure, or bees to be essentially an amateur conservation project..................viability. It has just not been a viable option, except at amateur level. If it can be made viable then there is a chance, until then it just an enthusiasts dream.

Jolanta was there too, and we DID tell them as a footnote to the talk, about the queens and nucs project. We were perfectly frank about what the project was, and what it was not. When we said it was NOT a black bee breeding project the gasp from the hall was audible, closely followed by a collective 'thank god for that!'. Seems they too just wanted sound working bees rather than any special race, and most certainly not further evangelisation about A.m.m. As you very well know it has a place in our work, but we most definitely do not want it pure.

Sunday 15th June, put it in your diary to come up to my place Gavin. That's the date of the CABA bus trip. Your help will be most welcome as I got a note from Mhairi yesterday to say demand is huge for places.

[gavin]

You show me yours and I'll show you mine!

Just heading off to Ulster (now that the eclipse is nearly safely out of the way ).

[Jon]

Good view of the eclipse in Belfast.

[GRIZZLY]

Good view of the eclipse in Belfast.

Luck of the Irish !., caught a glimpse just as the clouds thinned a bit (10 seconds worth ) Went quite dusky tho'. Bees have been flying well the last couple of days with stacks of pollen coming in which is a welcome sight.

[mbc]

It has just not been a viable option, except at amateur level. If it can be made viable then there is a chance, until then it just an enthusiasts dream.


I would say there are enough of us doing it to prove it is viable, maybe no one on your level Calluna, but there are plenty of smaller operations which do not buy in bees or queens, ever, and yet they remain in business and somehow the crazed enthusiasts at the helm make a living.
I would agree that many more colonies can be managed if replacement bees are sourced from outside, but the rewards for being flexible about seasonal numbers and raising ones own replacement stock are long term imho.

Magic eclipse here, seen through a river fog, no need for fancy protective glasses.

[Calluna4u]

but there are plenty of smaller operations which do not buy in bees or queens, ever, and yet they remain in business and somehow the crazed enthusiasts at the helm make a living.
.

Oh yes indeed. But.......Some of those making the strongest statements that way also buy bees.......from me. All to be kept hush hush apart from to the authorities. Even as I finished at Perth a few months ago, when the vote to ask for an import ban to be explored was passed, at least three of those I KNOW had their hands up to support it spoke to me quietly even before we left the venue, they wanted packages, and several more of them wanted queens. The imported ones of course. Secret layby rendezvous after meeting so no-one sees etc etc...........you would be very surprised...especially at some of the names that buy queens.

If your living depends on it you cannot take heavy losses.....and they sometimes happen despite the best of care...................followed by tiny crops for a year or two..........which also happens.............unless you have outside support.

But then maybe most do not give a jot about the widespread availability of UK honey, or the fact that even some of the bigger bee farmers have to get tax credits. The local bee is tough, but mostly its a survivor rather than a living earner.

You cannot rely on our weather....hence we are going for a twin track approach, maximise our own breeding effort, but have emergency supplies available to top up with.

I think the black bee movement are too closely following eachother and deciding on that basis that the demand is there, and that is what everyone wants, but as I told people last year, I managed to obtain a supply of very nice A.m.m., because, as is so obvious, everyone wants it. However when there were orders for 1200 Buckfast and carnica, and only 70 A.m.m., and I suffered the embarrassment of having to cancel bees from a great source because not enough people wanted them. I had been assured demand was huge.

[greengumbo]

Bees oot and on the last of the crocus today :)

Anyone have bees flying at 930 that rushed back in during eclipse ? Hear it happens during sudden thunderstorms if the bees are out foraging.

Bees are devouring pollen patties at the moment and a peek between frames showed at least one frame had a big patch of sealed brood.

[EmsE]

After moving my last 2 hives to their new site yesterday, it's time to have a wee peek in each hive to check everything's ok. One hive I moved yesterday had an unwelcome lodging mouse which the bees killed and I got rid of it from the floorboard which made them much happier. Its a lovely day here so planning to check the frames away from where the cluster is to replace any damaged ones. Not sure if there is anything else I should do to get rid of anything nasty that the mouse could have done / left behind?
A tip for anyone moving bees with an open mesh floor- put a couple of new drawing pins in the back of the floor to hold the mesh in place just in case the old drawing pins choose the journey to break and let the bees out!

[Pete L]

A tip for anyone moving bees with an open mesh floor- put a couple of new drawing pins in the back of the floor to hold the mesh in place just in case the old drawing pins choose the journey to break and let the bees out!

Drawing pins, who constructs mesh floors using drawing pins?

[EmsE]

That's what they supplied to pin the mesh to the wood at the back. Thinking those hooked nails (don't know what they're called) would be much more secure.

[Pete L]

Yes, staples, would be better, or even better construction with the mesh sandwiched between two layers of timber which is glued and nailed.

[gavin]

Brilliant to see you back Ems, and to see that you are getting your bees settled into a new home. Yes, the cheapo drawing pin mesh fixing wasn't such a great idea on those floors, I have a few like that.

I'm in Belfast staying with Jon for a few nights after the UBKA convention. He's sitting opposite me catching up with the sport and the weather on his tablet :).

[The Drone Ranger]

Good view of the eclipse in Belfast.

We watched it with welding masks on :)

[Feckless Drone]

Interesting reading in Science this week Goulson review - http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6229/1255957.full

[gavin]

Interesting reading in Science this week Goulson review - http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6229/1255957.full

Behind a paywall for those of us not in academic institutions :).

I see from the abstract that one thing he's calling for is 'enforcing effective quarantine measures on bee movements'. Amen to that!

[Feckless Drone]

[QUOTE=gavin;29547]Behind a paywall for those of us not in academic institutions :).

Sorry, gave the game away!
I'm sure an email to g.goulson@sussex.ac.uk with a request for a pdf would get a copy.

[greengumbo]

Behind a paywall for those of us not in academic institutions :).

I see from the abstract that one thing he's calling for is 'enforcing effective quarantine measures on bee movements'. Amen to that!

Moraybeedinosaurs have it up on their website from the original online release data a month ago:

http://www.moraybeedinosaurs.co.uk/neonicotinoid/Bee%20declines%20driven%20by%20combined%20stress%2 0from%20parasites%20pesticides%20and%20lack%20of%2 0flowers.pdf

I actually think this is a fairly unbiased and reasonable review paper. The press seemed to go big on it -NEONICS BAD FOR BEEs - but actually its a lot more nuanced than those headlines suggest.

Guardian had pics of honeybees not bumblers in their recent story about it.....and didn't mention honeybees in the article.

Bloomin' arts and humanities trained journos ;)

[brothermoo]

Yesterday's news... 3hour intermediate exam and im now glad that the time for books and study is over and the actual beekeeping is beginning. Roll on the good weather!!

[mbc]

I think the black bee movement are too closely following eachother and deciding on that basis that the demand is there, and that is what everyone wants, but as I told people last year, I managed to obtain a supply of very nice A.m.m., because, as is so obvious, everyone wants it. However when there were orders for 1200 Buckfast and carnica, and only 70 A.m.m., and I suffered the embarrassment of having to cancel bees from a great source because not enough people wanted them. I had been assured demand was huge.

This post has been sitting in the back of my mind bugging me as it just doesn't seem right as its obvious there is a quite big ( in British beekeeping terms) groundswell of interest in native bees, then it occurred to me, these beekeepers interested in native bees are also those interested in sustainability and breeding their own stock, therefore the lack of interest in buying in masses of queens, of however good a provenance, from outside.

[gavin]

Just a note to say that I've elevated the posts on Swiss small hive beetle worries to their own thread here:

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1941-Possible-small-hive-beetle-in-Switzerland

[greengumbo]

Snow on the ground again today :(

Bees were motoring along nicely guzzling down light syrup and pollen patties.

I am guessing the first round of CSI pollen collections by Magnus are going to yield very little pollen this weekend. I have duck-tapes my traps onto the hives but in the open position for now. No sign of bees in this weather.

[Jon]

I have not put mine on yet. No point until Saturday I think.

[Jimbo]

Put my traps on yesterday in the open position
Lots of flying activity and nice bright yellow pollen coming in
Going to close the traps today but the weather is not looking so good so not expecting a large amount of pollen for this collection period
Last year I kept the excess pollen in a freezer and used some to make my own pollen patties The rest of the excess pollen I sent to beesinthezoo to feed his beetles?


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[Calluna4u]

Beautiful weather today...................loads of pollen, especially willow and elm, and bees very active.

So.........the lure of the hive tool and the queen paint proved too strong so went out for about an hour and a quarter and got into some hives.

Very different story to that related by several on the various forums. (Suspect some high peeing contests been going on.)

Not a lot of brood. A few patches of sealed brood about the size of the palm of my hand in most, and a reasonable area of eggs surrounding it. Heavy with stores and abundant pollen. Less bees than I would have liked to see.

Opened 24 colonies (most of them the Amm type) and found the following;-

0 Drone layers
0 Queenless
1 Virgin queen (freshly emerged emergency QC)
2 2012 queens, yellow
6 2013 queens, red
13 2014 queens, marked green today
2 dead (just dwindled)

All hives probably have too much food in the core area and the brood is concentrated in the front four inches or so of the combs.
Supering at least 4 weeks away and swarming will be at least 6 weeks. No drone brood whatsoever, not even eggs. Suspect the VQ will transform into a loss as there was not one drone seen for her to mate with.

[Pete L]

Not a lot of brood. A few patches of sealed brood about the size of the palm of my hand in most, and a reasonable area of eggs surrounding it. Heavy with stores and abundant pollen. Less bees than I would have liked to see.


Nice weather here in the south as well, also plenty of willow in flower, few fields of OSR in flower, dandelions, wild garlic, and many other useful flowers.
Plenty of bees and brood, including drone brood and young drones already emerged in many colonies, but this is a very different climate than Scotland, it is even very different here within just a few miles from out over the moors and higher elevations, about three weeks earlier in this valley, and we move colonies out over the hills for what is like a second spring with regards forage, flowers finish here, and are just starting to flower out over.

Galloway always looked like a good area for bees to me, when we have been touring around in the camper van years ago.

[gavin]

Beautiful weather today..............

From your competitor down the hill :)

I'd add Prunus pollen to that list. Cherry plums are either going over or in full flower. The odd dandelion.

T-shirt weather and I was actually a little hot in the cotton smock in the sunshine. Bees on up to 12 frames - some stronger than I'd expected, others weaker, certainly stronger than the association apiary which I went through superficially yesterday. Brood on 4-5 frames in the strongest but most have about two frames and are on the front half of the frames only (frames at rt angles to the entrance). Plenty of eggs.

1 Drone layer - died out in late Feb.
0 Queenless
1 2013 queen
1 queen not found (I'll get her next time)
5 2014 queens, green, one painted today and the others last autumn

A little sealed drone brood in the strongest colonies but hardly enough for that virgin queen of C4U's.

Amm-leaning stock of various levels of purity. One colony (visually the least pure at the site) pinged and followed - noted for early queen replacement. Even though I was out for a while no peeing on the wall was required, at any height. :p

Watched a few waggle dances and they were going surprisingly far. One just over 5 secs in the straight run, so going over 5 km therefore west of Glencarse.

Fantastic skies. Great spotted woodpeckers drumming. Amorous mallards flying about recklessly. Magic.

[Calluna4u]

Come on then Gavin. One hive was bringing bright blue pollen. What the heck is that in early April? A brighter blue than willowherb.

No prunus or cherry near the place I was working......only other white pollen would be from some later butterbur.

[Jon]

Great to have the 2015 season kick off.
I intend to do a lot of clipping and marking tomorrow if the weather is as good as predicted.
I have had a quick look in a lot of colonies and don't expect to lose anymore at this point.
Losses are under 10% this year which is great.
I also have 7 or 8 queens which overwintered in double apideas which can sort out any problem I might encounter.
I also have a couple of 2012 queens still on the go and those ones are likely worth taking a few grafts from as they survived that wipeout winter of 2012-2013 and are still going strong.
Some of my overwintered nucs are weaker than I would like and have only got a couple of frames of bees but they all have a laying queen laying normal worker brood pattern so will pick up from this point on. I was looking at a few of these with Gavin a fortnight ago.
A few of the bigger colonies have sealed drone brood so grafting should be ok from early May onwards.

[Jon]

blue pollen this time of year is likely siberian squill

[Calluna4u]

Scilla? You get a few of them here but this was in a forest site a long way from any buildings, and we had a fair amount of it in my fathers garden when I was a boy and never noticed the pollen was blue (the garden was over an acre and a 'fair amount' would be several thousand plants, but swamped by the amount of Chionodoxa on the same ground). Learn something every day. This was full bright blue loads, and the whole pollen arc was like the Ukraine flag...half blue half yellow......should have taken a pic.

[Jon]

The only blue pollen I ever see is the rosebay willowherb from July onwards. It's not a common colour for pollen so I reckon it has to be the other.

[drumgerry]

18/19C here in Speyside and like lots of you it seems my season properly got under way today with my first full inspections. Losses low again - just the one - although I have a few that are still not needing moved out of their nucs. Strongest on 4 or 5 frames of brood. Weakest on just the one. Willow in full swing here and the bees are working it hard along with any bushes of flowering currant they can find. Took a bit of honey off that I had left on as feed last autumn as I had left it a bit late with those colonies. Will be odd to be extracting this coming week!

[brecks]

Ceanothus pollen is bright blue, but I think the earliest flowering varieties are in late Spring.

[gavin]

Scilla?

Yup, I get some near Errol and there are usually scattered blue cells at this time of year. It can naturalise in woods usually beside old houses. Not sure what colour Chinodoxa pollen is but I have some at my front door so could perhaps find out tomorrow. For arcs of the stuff you'd need a big area.

You could of course watch the waggle dances to work out where they're going - more likely early in the foraging day. There ought to be a few dancers carrying pollen.

Phacelia also has blue pollen. This isn't the season for it, but it is used as autumn green manure so just maybe it survived to flowering. Get Jolanta to check it out - I understand she has the technology!

[Calluna4u]

definitely not the phacelia colour.........this was almost royal blue, perhaps even a little lighter. Chionodoxa pollen is white if I recall correctly.

[GRIZZLY]

quick re-house of my most active colony. To my surprise they have 8 frames of brood and eggs. Stacks of stores-honey and pollen around the brood and I had to remove a complete super of sealed honey. I'm sure I didn't leave it on last year so they must have filled the super late in the season with something.( very late Sept / Oct.) after I had finished extracting . Rest of the colonies very active with stacks of pollen. Going thro' the rest tomorrow.
Black bees very active Jon - often when there is no activity from the rest.

[Jon]

Mine were very active this afternoon.
I clipped 15 queens and still have a few more to do in colonies I have at home.
One bugger got away from me. I spotted her on a frame but she got back down into the box when I set it down and I couldn't be bothered going through the frames again.
She is already marked so I'll clip next time I am at the apiary.

[gavin]

definitely not the phacelia colour.........this was almost royal blue, perhaps even a little lighter. Chionodoxa pollen is white if I recall correctly.

You're right, it is spelled Chionodoxa :). The ones outside have bright yellow pollen.

[Castor]

What is the 0-60 time of a queen that doesn't want to be caught?

[prakel]

Nice weather here in the south as well, also plenty of willow in flower, few fields of OSR in flower, dandelions, wild garlic, and many other useful flowers.
Plenty of bees and brood, including drone brood and young drones already emerged in many colonies, but this is a very different climate than Scotland, it is even very different here within just a few miles from out over the moors and higher elevations, about three weeks earlier in this valley, and we move colonies out over the hills for what is like a second spring with regards forage, flowers finish here, and are just starting to flower out over.

Similar here, good drone emergence already (noted slabs of drone on 10th of March -I know, I'm a terrible beekeeper...). As of yesterday some pretty forward colonies but these are inland; always much further ahead at this time of year than the coastal apiaries. All other things being equal I reckon that it must be the result of wind attrition on the plants. There's also a marked difference (as usual) between the dadants and the single body bs with the few Farrar style hives being closer to the md's than they are the bs.

No pee-ing contests necessary in this area, at least, not after the 1st of March!

[gavin]

So.........the lure of the hive tool and the queen paint proved too strong so went out for about an hour and a quarter and got into some hives.

......

Opened 24 colonies (most of them the Amm type) and found the following ...............



Took me an hour and a half to go through 12 colonies ... hmnnn. Found all 12 queens and marked and clipped the 5 that hadn't been done. Colonies here are generally weaker than at my own site (this is the association apiary). Many at 5-6 frames of bees and 2-3 frames with brood. But they've been packing out the comb with pollen and look like accelerating away before long.

[Jon]

I clipped the one that escaped from me on Monday this afternoon.
Colonies are very variable this year. Some are very big already and others like you describe on 5-6 frames of bees.
5-6 frames of bees is not unusual for early April.
There is still next to no nectar available this far north so not much point in having a huge colony so early.
Dandelion has really come on this past coupe of days though.

[gavin]

I clipped the one that escaped from me on Monday this afternoon.
Colonies are very variable this year. Some are very big already and others like you describe on 5-6 frames of bees.
5-6 frames of bees is not unusual for early April.
There is still next to no nectar available this far north so not much point in having a huge colony so early.
Dandelion has really come on this past coupe of days though.

Recalling that one frame of brood gives two frames of bees, and that the old bees in the colonies are still dying off, colonies with 5/6 frames of bees and perhaps the equivalent of two frames of brood will:

- in two weeks have perhaps 8 frames of bees and hopefully 4-5 frames of brood, which, if the weather is OK
- in two further weeks will have a full brood box with bees to spare for a super 8+(6-1)=13

Assumptions:
First two weeks: four frames of freshly hatched bees, one frame of bees dying off.
Next two weeks: two thirds of a full cycle so three brood frames emerging gives 6 frames of extra bees with one more frame of bees dying off.

If the weather and forage cooperates. So, these naive assumptions above suggest supers may go on them in about three weeks or a bit earlier, and that any spring honey crop will not commence until about four weeks from now.

The rape here has galloped along in the last week and fields could be in full flower in about a week. So most colonies might miss more than half of the rape season. If the best part of the rape season is early, they'll miss any crop from the rape.

I'm half expecting Murray to return to tell us that he's now been through imported genotype stocks and found that they are *much* stronger!

[prakel]

The rape here has galloped along in the last week and fields could be in full flower in about a week. So most colonies might miss more than half of the rape season. If the best part of the rape season is early, they'll miss any crop from the rape.

I'm half expecting Murray to return to tell us that he's now been through imported genotype stocks and found that they are *much* stronger!

Lets hope so, it would be sad to think of all that rape being lost.

[gavin]

A couple of my own will definitely be up to gathering strength very soon - one with 12 frames of bees now. Local dark-ish bees.

[Jon]

I haven't seen any Rape growing near any of my apiaries this year. I wonder has less been planted due to the seed coating ban.
There was never too much in my area anyway.
Mine collect a bit of nectar from the Dandelion in April and then the main flow seems to be sycamore in the last fortnight if May.
June gap follows then there is another flow in July.

[prakel]

Seems to be the usual amount growing in this area -with about 40 acres, at a guess, yellowing-up just over the hedge of the apiary I had chance to look at on Tuesday. Certainly no noticeably obvious difference in acreage.

[greengumbo]

Finally went through two hives in the apiary away from my garden this morning. One had 3 frames of brood in patches about hand sized and lots of eggs. A few emerging bees as well. Plenty stores and bright yellow pollen. This is the queen from your Aberdeenshire grafts Gavin ! Brood mostly black and they seem to have inherited AAs very calm demeanor :)

The second hive was ridiculous. 6 frames brood with another 2 sides of eggs, plenty of young emerged, chock full of bees and lots of wild comb built up around the feeder...also with eggs in. I removed a slab of stores and put an empty frame in as not heaps of room in there. I also saw two fat drones wandering about the frames.

Got me thinking about boosting hives prior to taking them to OSR. Is it more detrimental to the strong hive to remove a brood frame and give it to a weaker one than just leave them be in terms of yield ? I would think 1 very strong hive would be better than 2 medium strengths ?

Both hives are poly langs.

[gavin]

Excellent! Her sisters are spread through Tayside, Fife and Clackmannanshire :).

I don't think there is necessarily one way to arrange your production colonies. Ted Hooper (if I remember correctly) says that strong colonies are the thing, even to the extent that uniting weaker ones for the honey flow makes sense. Generally it is my strongest colonies that do well when there is a honey flow. I'd leave them, but that is personal choice.

Saw a few OSR fields today with yellow buds. The next warm day will see them in full flower. In the central Carse of Gowrie there are as many fields as usual.

[fatshark]

First inspection of the year yesterday ... mostly looking good. One suspected queenless colony, the rest mostly on 3-4 frames of BIAS. One boiling out of a brood and a half, with loads of brace comb with brood built into the eke around an empty carton of fondant. One very tetchy colony destined for early queen replacement (an obvious mix of some type, much paler than most of my stock). One suspected late season supercedure. Two looking great for queen rearing in terms of temperament. Colonies overwintered in Thorne's Everynucs in particularly good condition with 3+ frames of brood.

Comb changes start shortly ...

Great to work with bees again - I think it was late August since I last inspected a colony.

[GRIZZLY]

Went thro the rest of mine yesterday. I am very surprised at how strong they are with stacks of open and sealed brood , stores and an abundance of pollen. Bodes well for this year if we get some decent weather. We counted 29 different sorts of flowers in bloom yesterday with wifey photographing them for our records. She is now a very keen beekeeper now that she has passed her preliminary exam with distinction and has followed on by taking her module 1.

[Poly Hive]

"My" rape is coming into full flower and will last at best three weeks. My bees are not fit for it which is good given I aim at comb honey.

How long does the rape last in your neck of the woods as I hear it is a lot shorter a flowering time than it was in the 90's when one could near bet on a good 6 to 7 weeks.

PH

[gavin]

blue pollen this time of year is likely siberian squill

From the blog of an American lady bee inspector ... http://www.beverlybees.com

http://www.beverlybees.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/DSC_0130-copy.jpg

[lindsay s]

This year’s news
15th of March cleaned all the hive floors and had a quick look under the crown boards. All the hives had bees and were given 1 kilo of candy. 6th of April was a cool day but I had a friend up on holiday so the hives were given a quick inspection. All 7 colonies had laying queens and 2 or 3 bars with palm sized patches of brood. The candy was partly used up and except for one nuc all hives had plenty of stores. A few slugs and hundreds of slatero’s (woodlice) had moved into some of the hives over the winter. Last Thursday was a nice warm day and I gave our secretary a hand with her bees, they are slightly ahead of mine and she has a sheltered apiary in the middle of the town. I will be acquiring a nice colony of bees from her in a few weeks’ time. Nice to hear about your Everynucs fatshark I might try one out this winter. It’s cold up here at the moment and we’re not forecast to get warm weather this week. The forage seems to be later this year and it looks like we’ll have a slow spring build up.

[fatshark]

Today I'll be laying the foundations for the repossession of my house, car, cat and family by visiting the trade stands at the BBKA Convention. I'm actually at Harper Adams for a meeting but, like a moth to a flame, will spiral into the exhibitors tent and my inevitable financial destruction.

[Calum]

Today I'll be laying the foundations for the repossession of my house, car, cat and family by visiting the trade stands at the BBKA Convention. I'm actually at Harper Adams for a meeting but, like a moth to a flame, will spiral into the exhibitors tent and my inevitable financial destruction.

yes, lol, happens to me every time too....
Some more junk that I will never really use that just steals more space....
Then i have bouts of Beekeeping Minimalism- so have to find a noob beekeeper to gift my junk to. Luckily they are not in short supply

[fatshark]

Extraordinary … managed to escape with a single purchase of something that I lacked and wanted (and was less than £15). I only saw the inside of a meeting room and the trade show - no talks or other events. The trade show looked really quiet. None of the unsightly ruck for bargains that used to happen at the Thorne's stand at Stoneleigh. Partly this is due to pre-ordering. However, in chats with a couple of commercial guys I know it's clear that BeeTradex is getting a lot of business. I assume tomorrow will be busier. Didn't look to me that there were too many 'too good to miss' bargains on the stands. Good to see some friends there.

[Bumble]

Extraordinary … managed to escape with a single purchase of something that I lacked and wanted

That's good news. I wasn't too worried about your house or car being repossessed, but for it to have happened to the cat would have been very unfair.

[fatshark]

That's good news. I wasn't too worried about your house or car being repossessed, but for it to have happened to the cat would have been very unfair.

Unfortunately my statement hid an unpleasant truth. My cat is already possessed. Totally psycho ...
I bought the new E.M. Thorne home exorcism kit (flatpack).

[Bumble]

Unfortunately my statement hid an unpleasant truth. My cat is already possessed. Totally psycho ...

No no! Didn't you know that cats are perfect, but some have owners that don't understand them!

[Jon]

Set up a new apiary today (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/entry.php?702-new-apiary).

[Neils]

My two survivors are coming along, neither strong enough to do much with the OSR in the field next door. Given the weather wasn't brilliant I did a quick check of the nuc which is now up to two frames of brood and made do with just popping the crown board on the national and judging the number of bees (about half the hive) both have foundation frames so I think I'll basically leave them to it in terms of inspecting now until I see them start to be drawn.

[The Drone Ranger]

Fatshark thank you for the cat advice it made me laugh out loud
Mrs DR thought I had won the lottery -- she was disappointed-- that made it all the funnier

Our cat, which art in heaven, was also possessed, so now perhaps with his eccentric ways and unpredictable biting he will be reincarnated as a lion (which was something he always aspired to be)

[Jon]

I used this in a talk on swarm control last week.

2268

[greengumbo]

Hives onto OSR last Thursday.......2.5 inches of snow on Sunday. Nice work weather gods. All gone now but still chilly out.

To be honest if it retards the OSR flowering I'm hoping its not a bad thing as every day flowering is delayed is another day brood is hatching and new foragers are graduating. Is that sound logic ?

Needed the rain as well - very dry up here over past month.

Quick question - I have a nuc about 2km from this OSR field. I want to move them straight onto it but standard thinking means flying bees might pop back to original site. I'm willing to risk it if people think that it should be okay ?

[GRIZZLY]

Move it ., then put grass into the entrance to hold the emerging bees back. they will then re-locate and all will be well after the grass wilts and lets the bees out.

[greengumbo]

Move it ., then put grass into the entrance to hold the emerging bees back. they will then re-locate and all will be well after the grass wilts and lets the bees out.

Excellent I bow to your superior knowledge :)

[prakel]

Don't normally start till early May but this year's a little different. This one is actually yesterday's news...

2273

[The Drone Ranger]

I used this in a talk on swarm control last week.

2268

Lol!!

[greengumbo]

Moved. Grass at entrance just to be sure.

Wish this sun would come out.

[Jon]

DR.
Delusion and denial are the two key components of how most beekeepers deal with swarming.
The two you hear most often are (1) I found a huge swarm in my garden but it didn't come from any of my hives and (2) That hive could not have swarmed. Look how many bees are in it.

I had someone ring me up last year who had a swarm hanging from a branch in her garden and she was offering it to one of the beginners.
She had been through her hive and had not seen the queen and it had sealed queen cells but still refused to believe that her bees had swarmed.

[busybeephilip]

DR.
) I found a huge swarm in my garden but it didn't come from any of my hives .



Funny you should quote that Jon but I actually witnessed a swarm fly across my garden towards and settle in my home apairy site, if I had not seen it arrive I would definately though it came from one of my hives. I have found unidentifiable swarms before and now believe that it is the smell of a large number of hives or flying bees in the area that attracts passing swarms. I do use home made swarm lures in bait hives at all my sites so that might be a contributory factor in attracting swarms into the area.

[Jon]

Swarms usually settle no more than a couple of hundred yards from the hive they emerge from so you must have a beekeeper very close by.

[busybeephilip]

Not if they are on the move and have already travelled some distance

[Jon]

That's not how Tom Seeley sees it. I have seen his lecture a couple of times on Honeybee democracy, how a new nest site is chosen.
The swarm settles near where it emerges then the scouts go out to find possible nest sites. This could take a couple of days.
The scouts which find the best sites dance more vigorously on the comb when they return and they are eventually whittled down to one. At this stage the scouts lead the swarm directly into the new home. No pit stops involved.

[prakel]

I have found unidentifiable swarms before and now believe that it is the smell of a large number of hives or flying bees in the area that attracts passing swarms.

Ron Brown (in 'Seasonal Guide to Beekeeping') speculated that scouts could get caught up in bee flyways between apiary and crops.

[fatshark]

And Seeley demonstrates really well that the swarm moving from the temporary resting place to the chosen new site follows the scouts that overfly the swarm using fast and direct flight. In studies that resemble those that prakel is referring to the swarm would get 'lost' en route to the new site if the flight line crossed bee flyways between apiaries and OSR fields (i.e. a busy route with lots of direct flights … so resembling the scouts). I always thought this was a neat experiment. What I'm not sure is whether Seeley ever demonstrated it was the swarm that got distracted and lost, or the scout bees leading the swarm …

Mid-afternoon and (yet again) too cold for inspections … when it warms up it's going to be swarmtastic … I'm putting my bait hives out ;)

[Jon]

5C and raining here.
Some of Seeley's experiments are pure genius and he has very good video clips to illustrate the navigation dancing.
He had one of his assistants paint over the Nasonov gland in every bee in a swarm to illustrate that the fanning influences the speed at which the swarm enters the chosen nest site.

[busybeephilip]

Seeley could be wrong, in an ideal world this probably happens. How do you explain bee nests which are created out in the open with no protection or cavity amongst tree / bush branches and not in the vicinity of any other colonies. Bees will go where the queen goes and if she decides to take a rest then the bees will follow.

I know what I observed, bees crossing the area of my apairy and settling. my garden is over 1/2 acre it cam in from the far end towards the apairy site

this supports fatsharks comments and prakel what I've just read

[busybeephilip]

Its stopped raining !

[prakel]

Bees will go where the queen goes and if she decides to take a rest then the bees will follow.

Just this, I think. Bees can't live by absolutes, 'things' happen which don't fit textbook rules. I'd be very surprised to hear that Seeley doesn't accept that there are variables to swarm behaviour.

[mbc]

I like Seeley's work very much, but one has to remember it is done with strains of bee unfamiliar to many of us. What rings true for me are many of Willie Robson's observations about swarming, made with generations of experience observing local bees. He writes that colonies have a memory of all the other colonies within their sphere and investigate these sites first thing in the spring with a view to planning where to swarm into to repopulate, iirc with a particular emphasis on the relationship between mother and daughter parts of a swarm from previous years keeping tabs on each other. the implications about colony memory are almost spiritual!

[prakel]

mbc, that book's a wealth of observations and experience which are hard to dismiss even though they're not always a perfect match with what others have written previously.

[mbc]

I think it comes across very plausibly when he's talking, perhaps less so in writing.
My point about strains of bee was that the bulk of what is writen and the research is done on bees which are unfamiliar to me and which have been transplanted into different areas, it must colour the conclusions somewhat.

[fatshark]

Its stopped raining !

Same here, nearly … hoping to do my second proper inspection of the season today. It's been too cold for ages. The OSR has been going full strength for a fortnight and they've missed most of it. Other beekeepers (without day jobs, for example) tell me that swarm preparations are underway in many colonies, so as soon as the temperature rises they'll be off.

[prakel]

My point about strains of bee was that the bulk of what is writen and the research is done on bees which are unfamiliar to me and which have been transplanted into different areas, it must colour the conclusions somewhat.

I'm guessing that this is more a demonstration of unknown/outside forces acting in real time rather than any effect which transplanting bees 90+ years ago (for the most part) is having on present day research projects. I may be wrong, of course.

[Jon]

swarm preparations are underway in many colonies, so as soon as the temperature rises they'll be off.

First blink of sunshine it could be mayhem. We have had three really hot days followed by 10 really cold days and there must be a lot of colonies with sealed queen cells in them at the moment. Not any of mine I hope!

[busybeephilip]

Just poked my nose outside - its sunny and warm, bees flying vigorously gathering water etc, hopefully no swarms ....

[busybeephilip]

Green (as on ebay) and brown cups are different sizes, there is now purple cups, is purple the same size as brown ?

[lindsay s]

when it warms up it's going to be swarmtastic … I'm putting my bait hives out ;)


Went down to the bees last nite, it had been 16 degree C during the day and the bees were vigorously fanning at the entrances, the first thing to hit me was the smell of dandelion nectar, supers on most boxes now with the bees up in them - 2015 here I come

While I was reading the forum this morning I started weeping into my porridge when I came across the above quotes. I was thinking If only beekeeping was that easy up here. Yesterday was the first time in a month that I’d managed to carry out an inspection of my hives. Temperatures have been in single figures for weeks and the current outlook is none better.
My strongest colony has five bars of brood; my weakest three and the rest have four. Hives that had plenty of stores a month ago are rapidly running out and three are getting syrup to keep them going. The sun was shining and the bees were bringing in pollen but that is the one commodity all the colonies are short of. The flowering currant is turning brown and dying off and the dandelions have spent most of the time closed. It looks like the bees have missed out on two important sources of pollen at this time of year.
My bees are struggling to keep expanding brood nests warm and fed and there’s a slim chance of comb being drawn. I was speaking to another beekeeper today and she's in the same boat as me.
If things stay like this I’ll be changing my forum name to Miserable B.

[fatshark]

Sorry! If it's any consolation the last week here has been pretty cold (I did say when it warms up) and the OSR is being ignored by anything other than the strongest colonies. About 5 years ago I had mated queens this week, but this year is really slow.

Finally, I'm moving 300 miles North later this year so I'll be weeping into my porridge as well ...

[lindsay s]

Thanks for that Fatshark. By the way I will be asking a few questions about your over wintered Everynucs on the polyhive thread shortly. I might have ago at it this year that’s if we get a summer?

[greengumbo]

Finally, I'm moving 300 miles North later this year so I'll be weeping into my porridge as well ...

Theres 300 miles north to where you are going Fatshark and then there's Orkney which is a further 200 ! Your new abode will be a tad more gentle methinks.

Having said that ever since I moved mine to OSR the weather has been stinking.

[gavin]

Having said that ever since I moved mine to OSR the weather has been stinking.

There was me blaming myself for perturbing the weather patterns by moving hives 100 miles east, but I'll gladly let you take the blame ;)

I'm going to try moving more about 5 miles south (as the crow flies) and we'll see what that does. I don't normally add salt to my porridge so if I have to cry into it perhaps it will taste better.

[Jon]

Arey they getting anything at all from the Rape. My colonies are getting lighter on general forage at the moment. Great amounts of pollen coming in when the sun comes out.

[gavin]

On Monday they were very busy on the rape, for a while anyway. Some were lighter, some holding their own, but they still have stores from the better weather previously. They should be able to forage again a little on Friday and Saturday so I'm not too worried about starvation but the weather is certainly holding them back and risking any crop at all from the rape. Chalkbrood has had a resurgence. It was bad early on then declined in the better weather but has worsened again.

[fatshark]

Theres 300 miles north to where you are going Fatshark and then there's Orkney which is a further 200 ! Your new abode will be a tad more gentle methinks.

Benign I was promised, balmy at times, bollox I thought ;)

Today we have 40 mph winds and rain predicted all day. A pile of supers have just blown over - unsurprisingly they were empty.

[busybeephilip]

As Jon says, the bad weather we are getting now is making the bees eatup all their stores, queens are getting closer to maximum laying rate, supers containg danylion honey are now getting lighter but do have a lot of pollen in them. what worries me now is the forcast for May is not great and sugar feeding might be needed for some colonies to survive (i have 200 litres in preparation ready to use), other colonies are beginning to become very populated and if not examined in the rain means that just a blink of sunshine in between the bad weather and its swarms away. Looks like May is going to be a testing month.

No rape here, only very few farmers grow it, sometimes there is a field grown near minnowburn but have not seen it for a while, it really needs to be spring/summer planted rape to get a decent drop from it. I have never managed to get much worthwhile from winter sown rape due to it flowering in bad weather.

[SteveW316]

It's cold and wet, STILL Grrrr

[Bridget]

As Jon says, the bad weather we are getting now is making the bees eatup all their stores, queens are getting closer to maximum laying rate, supers containg danylion honey are now getting lighter but do have a lot of pollen in them. what worries me now is the forcast for May is not great and sugar feeding might be needed for some colonies to survive (i have 200 litres in preparation ready to use), other colonies are beginning to become very populated and if not examined in the rain means that just a blink of sunshine in between the bad weather and its swarms away. Looks like May is going to be a testing month.

This cheered me up a bit if only because it's not just cold in the highlands. It got up to 14 degrees for a few hours on Friday so managed to have a quick check. Was surprised to see how low stores were so syrup all round. Kg bags sugar 49 p at Aldi. Although nearly 7 frames of bees in two hives it feels far too cold to put supers on and anyway they need feeding first. The nuc that had a poor winter slowly building but the queen looks pretty ropey to me and where am I going to get another one in this weather?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Emma]

Has anyone seen any swarm preparations yet, in Scotland? Last year I caught my first swarm on 8 May; this year the nests are much smaller and, crucially, there's no sign of drones emerging yet.
I'm just about to go away for work for over a week - happens every year in swarming season, makes me very jittery! - but haven't had the heart to do inspections today. It's warm enough for foraging today, but not great. I had the same chalkbrood spike that Gavin saw on t'other side of the Tay: I don't want to let the draft in and bring it on again.
All the signs - including earlier comments in this thread - are that swarming will be late this year, but it'd be nice to know if other people are thinking the same!
Emma

[Jon]

I gave a talk on swarm control on 22nd April to a local association and 3 people had had a swarm that very day.
My father had a swarm from his log hive on the 23rd.
A colony at our association apiary had queen cells and no (clipped) queen so I reckon it swarmed at some point in the last 2 weeks.
Not Scotland but pretty much as far North. I am sure there have been a few swarms in Scotland already.

[gavin]

Murray had a small swarm (not his) in the Blairgowrie-Coupar Angus area a couple of weeks ago but that, from its size, was likely to have come from a small nuc running out of space in the early warm spell.

Just back from the association apiary where they are nowhere near swarming and where I've just added fondant to four colonies with nothing left in the larder. My usual first swarm preparation dates would be in the third week of May. I'm not expecting it any earlier this year.

Happy travelling :)

G.

[Adam]

I'm a few hundred miles S of Scotland.. A friend had an attempted swarm last weekend - well two attempts as the clipped queen probably came back. I went through the hive with him on Wednesday, opened a bronzed queencell for the queen to scuttle out and removed the rest. We'll leave them be for a while. I also had a swarm attempt on Thursday. My fault - not enough room. The colony had 14 frames of brood and the brood boxes and one super were also full of honey. I found the clipped queen who was back in the hive and removed her to a nuc. I pulled a virgin queen in that hive too and removed the remaining queencells. I was dealing with the colony when the bee inspector came. With EFB nearby last year (2 km) it was comforting that she confirmed my own diagnosis of 'all clear'.

[Emma]

My folks used to keep bees in south Northumberland, and even that was a whole different world, never mind Norfolk. I guess you must get the cold east winds, Adam, but the season just doesn't sound the same... I'm certainly nowhere near 14-frame brood nests as yet! & the stores are still empyting, even though there's a flow on at last. I'm more worried by what you've seen, Jon, but I've never known mine start shifting by April. Maybe further west is that much warmer??? In Aberdeen 3rd week of May was the earliest I saw... I loathe being away this time of year; this time it's to go to Finland but even that doesn't make up for it.
The state of mine sounds much more as you're describing, Gavin. Too late now, anyway. In a week or so I'll tumble off the sleeper coach straight into the brood nests, weather permitting, & see what they're planning :-)
Emma

[Bumble]

First blink of sunshine it could be mayhem.

It's been cold and wet here for weeks, but swarm calls are starting to come in. So far none of our swarm collectors has taken a prime swarm, they've all been tiny only on a couple of frames at best. They're beginning to wonder if the prime swarms have gone during a short break in the weather.

[Jon]

They're beginning to wonder if the prime swarms have gone during a short break in the weather.

There was a 3 day spell 21-23 April when it was about 19c here and swarms went off in that period. Since then it has been cold so I think colonies would have been quite unlikely to throw casts.
The people I spoke to had been overfeeding which likely induced the swarms.

My colonies here are building up well but are getting lighter.

[mbc]

My colonies here are building up well but are getting lighter.

Aye, things are nicely poised, I saw horse chestnut candles yesterday, sycamores threatening and hawthorn is on the verge whilst the Apple blossom in the biggest orchard I have bees in is just coming towards its best. I think with the recent cold having held back the colonies a bit everything's waiting to explode as we get the higher temperatures forecasted for this week.

[gavin]

I think with the recent cold having held back the colonies a bit everything's waiting to explode as we get the higher temperatures forecasted for this week.

It was a bit of an eye-opener seeing how light some of the colonies were at the association apiary yesterday. Soon to go and check out as many of mine as I can see before the heavy rain returns later, and I'll be taking feed with me. Some of my apiaries are near OSR but others are not - it is the latter that might be suffering.

It looks like tomorrow may be a decent foraging day, then Tues and Wed might give them brief foraging windows but after that I'll be back to starvation watch for a while according to the forecast for the rest of May.

[mbc]

A bit gloomy Gavin, I'm still organising some hired help to get the huge spring crop in at the end of May.

[busybeephilip]

Its lookin like May is going to be a really bad month weatherwise

[Jon]

And June is always poor around here so looking like just the July honey crop this year.
Your colonies up to full strength Phil. Most of mine are not far off it.
Could do with decent weather but it's not looking good for the next 10 days.

[Adam]

Yes we can get a cold east wind - sometimes it's warm enough for mating inland and a few degrees cooler on the coast which I am always miffed about. I'm about 2 miles from the sea. Spring starts a week or so later than 20 miles inland. We don't get so many cold frosts in winter though.

Forecast is 22 degrees tomorrow. If so, and I have a queen that emerged on Thursday - she just might go out and mate. It will be the quickest I've had IF it happens. Often with beekeeping our hopes and expectations are dashed!

[Adam]

June is usually poor for me too. I have 4 hives at the side of a field and there's a strip of clover and pollinator friendly plants that went in last year. With luck they'll help out a tiny bit until the bramble starts.

[Jon]

I reckon 6 days from emergence for the earliest chance of a mating flight but you know what they say about the rare genetics in Norfolk!

[Bridget]

It was a bit of an eye-opener seeing how light some of the colonies were at the association apiary yesterday. Soon to go and check out as many of mine as I can see before the heavy rain returns later, and I'll be taking feed with me. Some of my apiaries are near OSR but others are not - it is the latter that might be suffering.
I saw the same on Monday - was quite shocked at how little stores left and have had syrup on them ever since, which they are draining dry so filling up every day. Not sure how long to keep feeding - was working on the principle that they will stop when they have enough but don't want them to fill up all the brood space. Hope to get in there to check it out soon as by the look of them they will need a super very soon. Looks like being wet and windy for the next two days.

[busybeephilip]

now there is the beginnings of a gale and heavy rain. This weathers crazy - I need good weather in the next few weeks for the tree flow, bees are ready for it. Noticed some drone brood being thrown out of the weaker hives, a sign that food is getting critical.

[Jon]

Yep. Chestnut and then sycamore is probably the most important source of nectar in May. The Chestnut is already in flower and the sycamore will be along soon.

[mbc]

Sycamore's an odd one round these parts, sometimes yielding copiously, sometimes sparingly and sometimes nowt at all. I reckon to have a good sycamore year one in seven, and it often coincides with hawthorn yielding too which is a much stronger flavoured honey and so swamps the sycamore flavour. Generally get a bit on the hawthorn so long as no gales come to rattle off the first set of bloom.

[busybeephilip]

Generally get a bit on the hawthorn .


Ah yes, the "Hawthorne honey flow", loads of this where I live, I even have loads near my hives along with lots of the yellow flowering whin bushes, I see lots of bees on the whins but never ever on the hawthorne, lots of flys and hover flies (the one that often get confused as bees). I see bees on cheastnut , sycamore and maple but never on hawthorne - why ?

I reckon this is another beekeepers myth - the hawthorne honeyflow that just happens to coincide with the tree flow !

for discussion ? (oH -I did see a bee on hawthorne once - placed on it for to take a photograph)

[busybeephilip]

bee on hawthorne - search "hawthorne bee" in google images shows a bee on hawthorne but look closely - thats not a hawthorne leaf but a fruit tree of some sort

Blackthorne is different, it flowers earlier than hawthorne and it does attract bees - you need to know your thorns.

blackthorn (may flower as sometimes it is called here) the flowering finishes as the hawthorne starts - I think this leads to the confussion

Another picture http://dustygedge.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/hawthorn-and-honey-bees/honeybees-on-hawthorn-3.jpg except its not a bee !!!

My old bee book lists hawthorne as a poor nectar plant but usefull for pollen

[Jon]

Mine collect a lot of pollen from Hawthorn.

[chris]

Right now, mine are going crazy on the hawthorn.Mainly pollen, but some nectar gatherers. Maybe the ridiculous amount of sunshine? I remember a post by 'weewilyl' on the old bbka forum where he said the mayflower gives only once in 7 years.Coincides with mbc's sycamore?

[busybeephilip]

It appears that there is also different cultivated varieties of hawthorne that honeybees do visit, but the wild hedgerow form is basically ignored by bees ( eg the one I have here) . Of these the single flower cultivated forms attract bees but the double flowered ones do not, they also come in white or pink, so you need to know what type of plant you are looking at. I supose its possible to have differences in wild cultivars the length and breadth of the country and those in europe different again just like one has differences in the types of black bee up and down the country.

[prakel]

Blackthorne is different, it flowers earlier than hawthorne and it does attract bees - you need to know your thorns.

blackthorn (may flower as sometimes it is called here) the flowering finishes as the hawthorne starts - I think this leads to the confussion

Really confusing. I've always been under the understanding that the 'May' is hawthorn.

Blackthorn: one of the best years for flowers I can remember but, on Portland the bees only had a couple of days on it at the very end of the flowering (when it was well past being much use) after the heavy rain of two weeks ago; the previous month (as per every other year) they ignored it totally. Meanwhile, three miles away across the causeway you could hear the bees working it from quite some distance throughout it's flowering period. Need to know soil as well as the thorns.

[busybeephilip]

Really confusing. I've always been under the understanding that the 'May' is hawthorn.


Hmmm... its just me that's confuddled, you are correct, MAY is the hawthorne.
blackthorn flowers with no leaves, hawthorn the leaves come first then the flowers

[mbc]

It's one of those fickle plants which sometimes yields in some places and not others, it's one of my best sellers at market when my bees do do well on it, the honey has that heady scent as if you're standing under a mature hawthorn in full blossom on a warm afternoon, delicious.

[gavin]

... the honey has that heady scent as if you're standing under a mature hawthorn in full blossom on a warm afternoon, delicious.

Doesn't hawthorn have a touch of cat's piss about its aroma?! Can't say I noticed last year when we got some locally, which is very unusual.

I opened an IBC yesterday to take syrup round some sites south of here but in the end used little of it. The better sites are OK for stores and the bees were busy. Some sycamore has been out for a week as has been the earliest horse chestnut in the warmest spots. Bird cherry is still in flower. OSR and dandelion too of course. They seem to use sycamore even while it is wet.

[gavin]

The recent discussion here on apiary vicinity mating can now be found in this new thread:

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1971-Apiary-vicinity-mating

[mbc]

Doesn't hawthorn have a touch of cat's piss about its aroma?! .

Lol. Maybe, but that doesn't quite do it for the punters when you're waxing lyrical about its magic healing properties and wonderful flavour while they're tucking into a taster.

[greengumbo]

Day of firsts for the season yesterday; first sting, first demaree and first mating nuc made up. Only one hive showing any inkling of swarming so it got the demaree. The mating nuc was just opportunism after a big sealed Q cell was found in a colleagues hive - supercedure as its only one and on the bottom of the frame. The original queen was running around on the same frame but must be getting on a bit - yellow is that 2013 ? Colleague wants to wait to re-queen in a few weeks and was about to tear down the cell so I cut it out for myself.

[Jon]

I am getting grafts started now. I have 9 queens due to emerge tomorrow and I frame I grafted on saturday has about 16-18 cells started.
The weather is crap. It would need to improve in a week or so so that the queens can take mating flights.

[greengumbo]

Excellent news Jon. I might use the strength of the demaree hive to graft into the top brood box and get going for the season.

[Jon]

I am using a queenless box to get grafts started.

[Adam]

My first grafts have just emerged (yesterday) - 8 from 9 started - so weather permitting I'll get 1/2 dozen queens from them. A second lot of 8 went in on Sunday with 7 taken. This is from a demaree where the colony was already drawing queencells - so ready for raising. The colony is doing well but doesn't have the temper I like so I might leave a queencell in there and whip out the queen.

Weather is also good (22 degrees yesterday and 19 today) so there's plenty of nectar coming in. Mankini time if the weather holds for much longer!

[Adam]

I reckon 6 days from emergence for the earliest chance of a mating flight but you know what they say about the rare genetics in Norfolk!
Yep, we are all inbred and have 6 toes....

Blackthorn is sloes and May is Hawthorne.

[Jon]

You are all spending too much time looking at the Thorne catalogue.

Hawthorn is spelt like this hawthorn, hawthorn, hawthorn!

[mbc]

I think you'll find "draenen wen" is the correct spelling.....

[Jon]

Sure there is not an 'e' on the end of that?

[mbc]

I like the fact we're slowly coming out of the woodwork admitting to having started grafting, I'll be on my fourth graft this week, the last one I had a reasonable take but the first two were definitely nothing to brag about, when I start getting really good success I'll tell you all about it:rolleyes:

[Jon]

I grafted on may 1st and got 9 started. Those ones have started emerging.
I grafted on Saturday and have a good number started from that, 16+
I'll do another frame tomorrow and see how that goes.

Anything in the first half of May is a bonus.

You using Q+ or Q- starters?

[mbc]

You using Q+ or Q- starters?

Q- ,
I managed to kill the queen in one of my cell raisers boosting it with bees and brood from elsewhere to get them up to strength for an early batch, I've used those ones to start all but the first graft (which I started in a q- cell starting box) and they've also finished a few, nearly all the brood has hatched now so it's time to unite them. I have two cell raising colonies at the moment, one a conventional cloak board set up and the other the queenless mess, it's bursting with bees so has done a good job but ideally I want to find something suitable to unite under it so it can continue to be usefully for a few rounds yet, hopefully I'll see what I'm looking for on my travels tomorrow.

[mbc]

Anything in the first half of May is a bonus.



Absolutely, just to get the ball rolling.

[Jon]

I have one q- starter, just a 6 frame Paynes nuc bunged to the gills with nurse bees and one ben harden setup with frames of brood above the queen excluder in a queenright colony.
I ordered 5 of those nuc brood extensions from Paynes at the weekend so will use those in q- colonies with 6 frames over 6.

Incubator switched on now as well.
Brothermoo used it to hatch 6 chicken eggs in February but it is now back to its rightful purpose hatching queens.

[prakel]

A couple out of our second batch (emerged 9/5) -just experimentals to get the mini nucs stocked, their grandmother was a rather 'dubious' looking yellow queen which was kindly given to us last summer :)

227422752276

[Jon]

2277 2278

look familiar?

[prakel]

Yes!!

[Neils]

First Apidea of the year is in play. Not from any deliberate QR attempts on my part, my bees remain in a bit of a state (now down to one sad Nuc that refuses to expand and a queen less national), but I helped a friend attend a swarm call this afternoon, trotted up skep in hand to the smallest swarm I think I've ever seen. In the end we collected them in a 1/2 litre milk carton with the lid cut off and, for want of something better to do with them, transferred them into an apidea when I got home :)

So today I now have 3 cast swarms to add to my collection of colonies without a laying queen, who said beekeeping could ever get dull. I've got three massive fields of OSR literally next door and a bunch of hives that between then couldn't fill a frame with honey :D I shall keep fingers crossed for some nice weather this weekend to get some time to figure out just what I've actually got, though I suspect at the moment if I just combined the lot I might just about have a half decent hive of bees, maybe even with a laying queen :D.

[Adam]

You are all spending too much time looking at the Thorne catalogue.

Hawthorn is spelt like this hawthorn, hawthorn, hawthorn!

Whoops.

And potato is potatoe. (Or was that US Vice President who spelled it like that? (Dan Quayle I recall - he - allegedly - also had a mickey mouse watch)...

[Adam]

Anything in the first half of May is a bonus.



They don't always get mated in time if you start too early which is a shame. For my first lot that emerged on 10/11 May there's a better than evens chance that they will go up and mate OK - although my girls need warmer weather than perhaps the darkies do. Generally 20 degrees - and we lose out on the coast sometimes being cooler during the day. I need a mating apiary 10 or 20 miles inland.

[busybeephilip]

I think you'll find "draenen wen" is the correct spelling.....

some might argue "sceach gheal "

[fatshark]

I'm in awe of the weight of honey-filled supers prakel has been keeping quiet about … bits of the Jurassic Coast are so weighed down they're about to fall into the sea

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32780736

respect ;)

[prakel]

shhh.... we don't want the continental fishing trawlers strapping hives to their decks in search of a double harvest!

[Emma]

Back from abroad at last (great to have news of conditions back home while I was away!), & got the last two colonies checked yesterday - highest recorded temperature over 16 degrees!! Uncomfortably hot, to me, and well above what the bees seem to need for foraging :)
All colonies expanding, variable quantities of drone brood, according to nest size & temperament*, but no other swarm prep bar a few unpolished, eggless queen cups. Phew. Stores ranging between sufficient and comfortable - several nearby fields are suddenly blazing with OSR, the swathes of green alkanet and figwort are still popular, & the bees are earning their keep by rampaging over all the apple trees. Lovely. Quite a bit of new comb being built, too: there's clearly a decent amount of nectar coming in, despite the cool and the rain.
Compared with some other recent posts I'm feeling really lucky, so far...
Emma
(*They're all on wild comb broodnests, so they get to raise as many boys as they like... Gives me a complicated but interesting life.)

[GRIZZLY]

Mystery honey. Bees arriving back to the hive with faces covered in bright yellow pollen . The wax comb is chrome yellow and the honey it contains is bright yellow , with a not very pleasant taste. It also has a quite unpleasant smell. It's got me puzzled., anyone got any ideas as to its identification please.