Queen introduction

[Mellifera Crofter]

Following on from discussions below - can somebody perhaps explain the Taber/Albert Knight/John Dews Method (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/queenintro.html#ak_st_jd) of queen introduction, as described on David Cushman's site? (I found this as a follow-on from a link Gavin posted earlier.)

David Cushman says, "No workers in the cage of course, and no candy. ... The queen will be fed, but until the workers show signs that they are no longer aggressive towards the queen she is not allowed to be released." He says the queen can be kept in this cage for days until the workers are no longer aggressive towards her.

What I don't understand is, if the hive's workers are so aggressive towards her, why do they feed her? As she can be caged up for days, doesn't she need candy and some of her own attendants with her in the cage?

Kitta

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Mell/Kitta
There is a lot of stuff written about queen introduction which should never have seen the light of day! There is no mystery about introducing queens. There are a few basic rules – the most important being:
1 Do not introduce a new queen into a colony unless you are sure the colony is indeed queenless!
2 Next - match the queen conditions – a laying queen must be replaced by another laying queen. A virgin will usually be killed.
3 A postal queen should be introduced initially to a nucleus (perhaps 2/3 frame one). Once she is accepted and laying a good brood pattern, she can be introduced by uniting the nucleus colony to the ’accepting’ colony or removed form the nuc and caged then introduced.
4 Queen introduction cages fall into the same category as the “what type of hive” argument – each to his/her own. I bred and sold hundreds of queen bees and nucleus colonies up until Varroa was located in Devon in 1992. I raised perfectly good queens in 4 – frame nucleus colonies and transferred them to strong colonies, replacing my own queens every year – using a “Relay Re-queen System”. The new queen is placed in a PULP matchbox with some half dozen attendants and inserted into the ‘accepting’ colony simultaneously with the ‘old’ queen being removed. That is one in – one out! Within a few hours a small pile if shredded matchbox would appear at the hive entrance. I would leave the new queen to settle for about a week and then enter the colony to check progress. I can honestly say ‘hand on heart’ that my queen introduction rate was in the high 90’s year on year for over 25 years. The matchbox has to be open a slit – just enough for a proboscis to poke through. The bees do the rest.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Eric,

Thanks for the reply. I am particularly taking note of points 2 and 3. I am expecting a virgin AMM queen by post next spring or summer, and I don't want to lose her - which is why I was interested in the method Cushman describes.

Thanks,
Kitta

[Jon]

If you remove a queen and wait for 5 or 6 days until there are sealed queen cells they should accept anything they are offered.

[Eric McArthur]

Jon wrote:
If you remove a queen and wait for 5 or 6 days until there are sealed queen cells they should accept anything they are offered.
............................................
Eric wrote:
As Alice once said “It gets curiouser and curiouser”.
Can you point me in that direction – in the literature?

The famous Dr Miller and Berhard Möbus, both advocated that: and I quote „A colony of honey bees which has bee queenless for some 9 days will accept a new queen without demur.”
As a successful bee breeder of many years standing – I would not dare to contradict such “eminents”, however with a little savvy and a trusty PULP matchbox the job can, and has been done many times - in minutes!

Eric
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[Latouv]

[QUOTE=Eric McArthur;3978]Jon wrote:
If you remove a queen and wait for 5 or 6 days until there are sealed queen cells they should accept anything they are offered.
............................................
Eric wrote:

"The famous Dr Miller and Berhard Möbus, both advocated that: and I quote „A colony of honey bees which has bee queenless for some 9 days will accept a new queen without demur.”

I am about to receive new queens from Germany (personal delivery to the South of France by the breeder who leaves nucs here over the winter) and she also advocates 9 queenless days - there will obviously be sealed cells in the hives when that time comes - do they have to be destroyed BEFORE introducing the cage? Or do the bees destroy them once they realise there is a queen in the hive? PS - Had many an instructive evening with Bernard Möbus when he came to the Moray Beekeepers' Association some 30-35 years ago.

[Jon]

You need to destroy the queen cells before introducing the queen.

[Kate Atchley]

I have a colony on double brood box which I think has become queenless ... weather has prevented a full check as this happened as result of late, failed supercedure. I have a 2-year old queen in a nuc - as a precaution when I was requeening. Shall I pop her in a cage and introduce her to get them through the winter? If the colony has its own queen there'll be a squabble but if not, the bees are doomed. Or, I could introduce the 4 frames of the nuc with paper (+ I usually spray on all the bees with very light syrup + tiny drop of lavender oil ... great distractor).

In a dither

Kate

[Jon]

I have a colony on double brood box which I think has become queenless ..

You need to be 100% sure the colony is queenless before introducing a queen.

The best way is by introducing a test frame from another colony to see if they start making queen cells on it.
Although a colony with laying workers will not make queen cells or accept a queen as it thinks it is queenright.

If the colony has a virgin queen or a scrub queen it will not accept anything you try and introduce.

I recently made the basic mistake of trying to introduce a queen to a queenright colony (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/entry.php?179-Dimmest-move-of-the-year).

[Adam]

I have a couple of introduction examples.
First I was told - or read - that a colony if queenless will accept a laying queen if she walks in the front door. The colony in question - a nuc - had been queenless for a good while - a couple of weeks or so and the introduced queen was otherwise for the chop anyway. They didn't want her!

The second example was putting a caged queen in a queenright colony where the queen had stopped laying for some reason. I thought the queen had gone. After two days the non-laying queen swarmed; I assume thinking that the caged queen was a virgin in a queencell. (The caged queen had the plastic tab over the candy so could not get out). The queen being clipped, I recovered the bees and also the non-laying queen. Not the best way of finding the queen but it worked!

Apart from the above errors I put a queen in a cage with attendants, some candy and a plastic tab over the candy or some insulating tape over the candy if the cage has been used before. I then leave for a couple or more days before breaking off the tab and putting the cage back in. The bees can then eat the candy and release the queenat their leisure - at least when I'm not around annoying them.

I believe that introduction is least reliable at the height of the summer and I think that that's the time when introduction has failed for me. Eric has better of experience than me and may be able to answer that one.

Not many matchboxes for me. I light my smoker with a blow-lamp and I don't smoke myself.

[Jon]

I used these ones this year

828 829

There is a short entrance and a long one. The queen can only get out the longer route as the short one has too narrow an entrance. The workers get in with her for a while before she gets out into the full colony.

I put the cage in for 48 hours before opening the plastic tab and it can take another 2 or 3 days before they have her out.

No matter what you do you will lose some queens on introduction which is why it's good to have spare ones.

[The Drone Ranger]

"The Introduction of Queen Bees" L E Snelgrove
pretty comprehensive guide

I prefer the water method where you give em a good soaking and bung them in the rear of the hive( just moving the cover board a little.) and done a night.
Wouldn't try that with a £50 queen on my say so though :)

[fatshark]

This thread seems to have moved on from the OP question ... I'll continue moving slightly further off topic. I've successfully used the Nicot cages sold by ModernBeekeeping (http://www.modernbeekeeping.co.uk/item/163/large-queen-introduction-cage) for queen introduction this year. Notably these worked with a hive that was queenless and broodless for at least 2-3 weeks ... I pinched a frame with a small patch of emerging brood from another hive (no more than a hundred or so cells) and enclosed the queen, alone, in the cage over the patch of brood. Over the next few days the brood emerge and immediately accept the queen, who started to lay in the cells. The cap was then be removed from the cage, allowing the queen to move into the hive body in her own time. The half dozen or so introductions this year have all been done in the same way - all mated queens - without a problem.

The sealing caps seem to disappear after a single use only, but can readily be replaced with a small square of silver foil and a strip of duct tape!

--
fatshark

[Jon]

I tried one of those twice last year. The first time the introduction was successful and the second time the bees tunnelled in and killed the queen. It should work ok but if there are any gaps around the edge the bees can get in too quickly. I can't honestly say if it is better or worse than any other method of introduction as I only tried it a couple of times.