Queenless colony in late spring

[Eric McArthur]

A beekeeper with 5 or more colonies has a relatively strong queenless colony in late March early April – what should he do? What might have made him question the colony and it’s condition in the first instance? Anybody interested?

Eric

[Adam]

1) Cry. .... Then.
2) Unite with another colony if she (or he) is happy that there is no disease.

[Jon]

Last Spring I found I had a queenless colony and another one with about 200 bees and a live queen so I took the queen from the small colony and used it to requeen the larger one. There are a few pictures in my blog. The queen is still going strong a year later, at least she was in October the last time I saw her.

[Eric McArthur]

Jon wrote:
2) ) Unite with another colony if she (or he) is happy that there is no disease.
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This is the classic solution. But in so doing the beekeeper has lost an opportunity to expand his/her beekeeping skills!
Eric

[Eric McArthur]

Jon wrote:
Last Spring I found I had a queenless colony and another one with about 200 bees and a live queen so I took the queen from the small colony and used it to requeen the larger one.
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Such a situation occurs quite often in larger scale beekeeping. The seemingly ‘failing’ queen is capable of performing the impossible, if salvaged. I have had queenless colonies benefit in this way a number of times over the years. Ian Craig has had the same experience. The explanation for this is quite simple!
This phenomenon actually implies a solution to the vexed question of the “Marie Celeste” (not CCD!) phenomenon, which has puzzled beekeepers for many years.

Eric

[Calum]

Unite with another colony ?- if the colony was queenless for long enough that the bees are laying they wont raise another queen (ie they are not already or will not raise introduced young larve) disband. Uniting them risks the laying bees killing the new colonies queen.

If they just lost her it depends what the beekeeper wants to do. They should be perfect for raising queens if they have plenty of sealed brood, or good amount of open & closed brood - split into 2,3 or even 4 they should build up nicely through the season. There is probably an other option to optimise honey yield too.

[Eric McArthur]

Calum wrote:
Unite with another colony?
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Jon ‘s words – Not mine!
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Calum wrote:
If the colony was queenless for long enough that the bees are laying they wont raise another queen (ie they are not (already?) ready or will not raise introduced young larve) disband.
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Have you made any attempt to prove this dogma to be incorrect? Queenless colonies, even those with laying workers can be induced to accept eggs and young larvae and raise a new viable queen. I have performed this procedure many times in the past. The most recent was with a colony in the CABA Apiary Project in 2008 - ask Peter Stromberg he was involved as was Ivan Bryden!
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Calum wrote:
Uniting them risks the laying bees killing the new colonies queen.
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Take that one up with Jon!
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Calun wrote:
If they just lost her it depends what the beekeeper wants to do. They should be perfect for raising queens if they have plenty of sealed brood, or good amount of open & closed brood - split into 2,3 or even 4 they should build up nicely through the season. There is probably another option to optimise honey yield too.
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Now you are talking my language! Options, – look at the caption which accompanies your posts – think lateral!
Eric
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[Jon]

1) Cry. .... Then.
2) Unite with another colony if she (or he) is happy that there is no disease.


Jon ‘s words – Not mine!
Actually it was Adam and I agree with him that uniting is a good option.

If you are worried about the bees from the queenless part killing the newly introduced queen, introduce her in a cage for 24-48 hours and then release her on a comb. if they start to ball her, put her back in the cage and try again a day later.

I posted a few pictures here (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/entry.php?21-Releasing-the-Queen).

I introduced about a dozen queens this way last year. You have to be prepared to catch her and put her back in a cage if they start to ball her.
the most critical part of the operation is the first 30 seconds after release. if the queen stays calm on the comb and they form a nice circle around her everything should be ok. if the queen starts to run around in a panic they will probably attack her.

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Jon/Adam
Sorry about the ID error, apologise to you both, but since you are both of the same persuasion - no worries.
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Uniting or dispersal! Dispersal, in my opinion, is the best option if the queenless bees are covering less than two frames, uniting if covering 2 – 3 frames. Covering more than three frames the colony can be used to produce an early queen.
The 5 colony+ beekeeper prerequisite was deliberate: assuming experience and sufficient colony numbers to make sacrifices.
A frame of sealed brood, with some 50 – 72 square inches of sealed brood, donated to the queenless colony will stimulate the natural brooding instinct and give a lift of around 1000+ to 1800 young bees within 12 days. By mid April the colony will be ready to accept a frame of eggs and open brood (another 1000+ to 1800 bees). The bees will raise queen cells on this comb and by mid- May give or take a few days there will be a laying queen in the colony. There will be sufficient drones around in early May to do the business. A good start to the season!
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Introducing queens is not a thing that I consider a problem

[EmsE]

Calum wrote:
If the colony was queenless for long enough that the bees are laying they wont raise another queen (ie they are not (already?) ready or will not raise introduced young larve) disband.
.................................................. ...................................
Have you made any attempt to prove this dogma to be incorrect? Queenless colonies, even those with laying workers can be induced to accept eggs and young larvae and raise a new viable queen. I have performed this procedure many times in the past. The most recent was with a colony in the CABA Apiary Project in 2008 - ask Peter Stromberg he was involved as was Ivan Bryden!

Last spring my mentor found that one of his hives was queenless and there were no laying workers. The bees seemed to be quite happy with themselves though & despite a frame of eggs & larvae being added on several occasions they didn't attempt to raise a queen. In the end the hive was united with a new colony & still doing well.

[gavin]

They must have been republicans ........

[Adam]

If there was concern about laying workers in the queenless colony then it could be shaken in front of, say, a couple of hives to boost both; the relatively small abount of bees introduced per hive would mean that there would be minimum chance of any problems.

Eric, I'm not sure about raising a queen as you describe - there would still be a smallish amount of bees - maybe better to strengthen one colony by combining and then produce a queen from that?

[Calum]

Last spring my mentor found that one of his hives was queenless and there were no laying workers. The bees seemed to be quite happy with themselves though & despite a frame of eggs & larvae being added on several occasions they didn't attempt to raise a queen. .

In that case they probably already had an unmated queen. Expaining happiness & non queen raising.


In the end the hive was united with a new colony & still doing well.
Wonder which queen won that fight. Was the queen in the new colony marked?

[EmsE]

In that case they probably already had an unmated queen. Expaining happiness & non queen raising.




He thought that was unlikely as although there had been a little brood raised at the beginning of spring there was no sign at any point of any Queen cells. By mid April the laying stopped & no Queen could be found.:confused:

[Eric McArthur]

EmsE wrote:
The bees seemed to be quite happy with themselves though & despite a frame of eggs & larvae being added on several occasions they didn't attempt to raise a queen.
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Next time the situation presents; donate a frame of sealed brood, no bees! As I mentioned previously within 12 days there will be many hundreds of new YOUNG bees. If the queenless colony is still quite strong it will be capable of brooding a large patch of brood, a 7” x 6” comb symmetrically laid up will “throw” some 2000+ new bees. These young bees will be looking for a mum; a comb of eggs and open brood will supply the means to do what comes naturally! The trick is to “switch” on the natural functions in the correct order. Your bees were “switched off”.
The second comb as well as giving the colony a mum will provide another 1500+ to 2000+ young bees – making a possible total of 3000+ to 4000+ new bees to swell the “resident population”. Try the procedure – I’ve used it successfully many times over a number of years!

Eric