Drones life cycle

[HensandBees]

Can anyone enlighten me. All the literature I have read says the drone flies out mates with the queen and then falls to the ground dead. Is it possible, that he mates with the queen, and then tries to fly home dying on the way or even back at the hive?
Last year I counted about 30 drones all dead at the side of a hive, some successfully having mated, others with the endophallus still attached, but exposed....
Yesterday afternoon some time ( I was out so did nt see this ) a dead drone appeared on the landing board infront of the hive, with endophallus exposed. searching amongst the grass around I found another dead drone, this time no endophallus, but a big hole where it should have been.....
Could they have been attracted out when (hopefully) a virgin from the next door hive went on a flight, and returned to base, job done? or could I have a drone congregation area above one of my hives?
hope picture works.... point and press camera difficult to focus . taken last year, same arrangement this year!

[HensandBees]

No body any ideas either then?

[Stromnessbees]

Hi Hensandbees

I haven't made the same observations as you (didn't look yet), but as long as the drone has still got the endophallus it should not have mated, as it needs to come of for a successful mating (I believe).
The chances of finding a drone that has mated successfully somewhere around your hives will be extremely slim. There might be other ways for the endophallus to come off, even if the drone has not mated.

Doris

[HensandBees]

yes that is what the books say .. but see my out of focus picture!..... the layout is mine! the ones on the left are all without endophallus, the ones on the right have it still attached ... no-one so far as I have seen has mentioned the drones getting part way through the procedure and failing to complete! Nor that they fly home ....... And it is now 2 years in succession that I have observed it. I think I was lucky last year. they all fell on top of a hive I was storing under the other one . with a bit of roof projecting, this year having found drone + endophallus on lighting board I went looking! But my bees are in a field with long grass etc around . I go in for the wild natural look rather than the manicured look

[gavin]

Am I right in thinking that this is a female-only thread so far, and we blokes are just nervously looking in?!

[Jimbo]

I am sitting crossed legged in amazement looking at this thread!

Jimbo

[gavin]

I keep thinking of things I could say ... but then have to stop myself as I don't think that they are appropriate!

[gavin]

Perhaps it is something to do with endophallus envy?! :p

Any more of that and I may have to ban myself.

[Jimbo]

The Drones with their endophallus hanging out may be due to some beekeepers (the ones white beards are the worst) coming along and popping them like they did in Fife a few months ago. On a more serious note the drones must be trying to mate near the hives with some being successful and others just missing the mark.

Jimbo

[gavin]

At the risk of dragging this down .... ripe drones are just ready to pop (I've never tried that famous trick of passing a mature drone into the warm hand of an unsuspecting bystander ... ). Maybe they just popped at some stage perhaps after being thrown out. I wouldn't assume that missing endophalli (?!) indicate successful mating. Perhaps the little scavengers around the hive just find them ... well ... nutritious?

Clearly some research is required, and I'm sure that Doris and BeesandHens will keep their eyes peeled.

[Alvearium]

I suppose at this time of the year 'within apiary' and 'within strain' matings may be more likely with drones falling near the hives. Is it possible that drones being harassed and excluded from the hives normally at this time of the year suffer some sort of stress eversion of their sexual organs before death?
Alvearium

[gavin]

Mark Winston's very well researched book has a very graphic description (and drawings) of the mating process, saying at one point:

'At this point the drone becomes paralysed and flips backwards .... '

but later he says:

' ... the ejaculation separates the drone from the queen, and he dies within minutes or hours of mating.'

So that doesn't really clarify Bs&Hs' question on whether the damaged drones can find their way back to the hive or not.

G.

[gavin]

The Drones with their endophallus hanging out may be due to some beekeepers (the ones white beards are the worst) coming along and popping them like they did in Fife a few months ago.

This particular Santa Claus?

337
(http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243&d=1275259215)

[HensandBees]

just have to keep my eyes peeled then.... probably next year before this happens again ( if at all)

[gavin]

One wee question - were you seeing this during the swarming season or during the drone kicking-out season? Your recent observations seem like the latter, but what about last year?

[Stromnessbees]

I found some dead drones outside my hives today, still fresh, and had a good look. They were all still complete and popped very nicely, showing off their reproductive organs.

- Another party trick for our beekeeping sessions.

Doris

[Jimbo]

Hi Doris,

As well as being a good party trick it will also tell you if your drones are mature enough before you start any bee breeding early in the season.
It is also good to watch the males faces in any bee group cringe when you do it.

Jimbo

[HensandBees]

I,ve checked last years photographs and they seem to have been taken on the 16th June . so still swarming time up here on the tops of Lancashire. I have a lovely picture in my head of people all round the country crawling round their hives and looking for dead drones....... and popping them! ....that one is new to me !

[gavin]

I,ve checked last years photographs and they seem to have been taken on the 16th June . so still swarming time up here on the tops of Lancashire. I have a lovely picture in my head of people all round the country crawling round their hives and looking for dead drones....... and popping them! ....that one is new to me !

In that case - and with Doris' failure to find popped ones in the Orkney drone autumn slaughter - then I'm mildly optimistic that you may have revealed that drones can make it back to their colony after a botched or maybe even a successful attempt at mating. If something that dramatic happened to me while I was out and about (!) then I'd be tempted to try and make it home if I could. Best not anthropomorphise though.

G.

[Jimbo]

My money is on the hives being located near to the drone mating area so the bees being able to make it back, where as most of us have hives a distance away from from the drone mating areas and the drones not making it back. To test this theory if somebody knows of a drone mating area and sited a hive near to it they could then observe if the drones make it home.

Jimbo

[HensandBees]

you are all welcome to come and sit on the wall and watch for a drone congregation area above 'my' field.. I have never seen one and would love to do so....... very frustrating that the drones appear after a trip out as my desk at work looks out over the field.......
I suspect I will have to record many more occurrences before writing a scientific paper though ! shame I still have to work otherwise I would be sitting on the wall too

[GRIZZLY]

you are all welcome to come and sit on the wall and watch for a drone congregation area above 'my' field.. I have never seen one and would love to do so....... very frustrating that the drones appear after a trip out as my desk at work looks out over the field.......
I suspect I will have to record many more occurrences before writing a scientific paper though ! shame I still have to work otherwise I would be sitting on the wall too

I think you might do better with a sensitive microphone ,drone congregation areas are sometimes quite high so difficult to see but produce quite a loud buzz which can be clearly heard.

[Alvearium]

Drones are now being herded onto the floor area of this hive I opened yesterday, I presume prior to being excluded from the hive.
Also a picture included of drone sex organs everted (end of May); Terry Clare said this was about a couple of weeks away from full maturity.
Alvearium

[gavin]

Cracking pictures, A! I'm still a little bit nervous about this turning into a porn site though .....

Those drones on the floor have a dejected, resigned look about them. Do you think that they know their days are numbered?

G.

[HensandBees]

I am getting a tad confused with trying to reply with a photo a attached so if this becomes a multiple reply apologies
anyway . really good photo there is a difference to my drones however ...... who no longer seem to have the bulb and finish at the horns (cornua) so either
1. left in queen 2. only partial inversion from quite a number of drones but they made it back to the hive 3. nibbled off by passing slugs or snails after successful mating. & this not porn this is scientific research !

[HensandBees]

ahhhhhhh lost the photo try again!

[Stromnessbees]

Terry Clare said this was about a couple of weeks away from full maturity.

I found a few more freshly dead drones and perfected my popping method: rather than squeezing their sides I pushed the upper part of their tail end forward, accordion style. This gave a good display.

Now who can tell me the difference between a fully mature drone and an immature one?

Doris