Too late to create new queen?

[Brian]

For the first time in 20 years I've found myself with a drone breeder at the end of the season. Is it too late to supply a frame with eggs and larvae (already done a week ago!) or should I just go ahead and join a queenright nuke via the newspaper method?

[Trog]

You've put in a frame of eggs a week ago? Have they done anything with it yet (eg drawn out a queen cell)? I found the same, and did the same last week but waiting for it to stop raining so I can check the result. I should reunite, really, but I'm very keen to get a second colony out of this particular lot. There is also, of course, the problem of finding the offending queen and despatching her! The next inspection should be interesting. I still have drones around so, given good weather, mating wouldn't be a problem. Then I'd have to feed, feed, feed to get them built up. However, last year I successfully wintered 3 nuc-sized colonies and they all built up and split this May, so it can be done.

[drumgerry]

Had the same problem with two of my colonies this year. Both with drone layers. For the life of me I couldn't find the queen in one of them in order to knock her off before requeening.

What I ended up doing for good or ill was to remove the brood box,floor and crownboard about 50 yards away. On the hive stand I placed a new floor, on top of that a queen excluder and on top of that a new brood box. The queen excluder was just to prevent the queen returning should she manage to be able to fly. Shook all the bees on to a large white sheet and waited till they all flew home. Requeened the next day using a queenright nuc over newspaper and all has been well since.

There may be a better way to do this and I'm all ears if someone wishes to share one!

Gerry

[HensandBees]

Are we all in the same boat ?! I have a nuc with queen cells in at the moment . due to emerge today...... lots of drones in next colony ......... praying for good weather tomorrow ( raining today) had a peep to see how getting on all look a bit scrubby, if it doesnt work then it will be uniting time .... but boy are they nowty........

[Jimbo]

Interesting to see some of you had problems with your queens. I had a number of queens this year that failed to mate resulting in drone layers. Some other nucs had a new mated queen but were then lost during manipulations eg moving from mini nuc to nuc to full size hive etc.
This is the first year I have experienced such problems on such a scale.

Jimbo

[ajtony]

Guys. Don't be too quick to kill your DLQ. One of mine was laying unfertilised eggs in worker cells for a couple of weeks and then sorted herself out. She is now laying well, and it's all worker brood. I think it was Manley who wrote in his book 'Honey Farming' that this sometimes happens. I don't know how or why and I don't think he did. But the delay in killing her means that I have a viable queenright colony going into winter.

[drumgerry]

Tony - the only problem I've got over here in sub-arctic Speyside is that it's getting a bit late in the year for waiting to see whether the queen sorts herself out. I'd much rather get a queen in there now and get her laying overwintering bees asap.

Gerry

[Stromnessbees]

I find this long pre-laying period a great nuisance, our summers are too short to waste time waiting for a queen to start laying.

I check every mating nuc after 3 weeks and make notes. Some already had sealed brood at that stage. Any queen that took more than 3 weeks to start laying properly will be ruled out from future breeding.
This is one aspect that we can easily select for in Amm.

Doris

[Trog]

Tony, I've had the same - a young queen who seemed to be a drone-layer but sorted herself out and was (in the end) an excellent queen. However, I also had a nuc that never sorted itself out, despite several chances with frames of eggs. I left them to it, as the weather didn't allow frequent checks, and they died out in the winter. Uniting wasn't really an option as they probably thought they were OK, I couldn't find the queen, and they might have caused trouble for the colony they joined. The current 'problem' colony may well be fine by now - I just need a break in the weather to take a look (Storm 10 anyone? Forecast for today and already wet and windy but this colony and its sister one are both flying!!)

[ajtony]

Tony - the only problem I've got over here in sub-arctic Speyside is that it's getting a bit late in the year for waiting to see whether the queen sorts herself out. I'd much rather get a queen in there now and get her laying overwintering bees asap.

Gerry

Hi Gerry, I agree. The only reason I kept hold of the DLQ was because I was too busy to attend to it, and then when i did manage to get into the hive I couldn't find her! Give Tom B a call re getting hold of a Q, I think i gave you his contact details. If you are still stuck give me a call.

[Stromnessbees]

Guys. Don't be too quick to kill your DLQ. One of mine was laying unfertilised eggs in worker cells for a couple of weeks and then sorted herself out.

Hi ajtony

I am afraid I have to disagree with your there. If my queens don't start to lay eggs within 3 weeks I won't consider breeding from them in the future and if they don't lay properly within 5 weeks they are for the chop, like the one in the photo below.

Some of her (half-) sisters started laying after 2 weeks under the same conditions, they will be considered for future breeding. Queens that take a long time to strart laying would not be able to build up a brodnest in time for winter naturally. They can only survive with the interference of the beekeeper. By keeping them and breeding form them we only perpetuate the problem.

Doris

[Brian]

Hi Guys, Fantastic response full of good info. My sincere thanks to all and sundry. I decided to give her Majesty a wee while longer and so will check the hive out soon. Will tell all when 'all' is known.
Thanks again
Brian.
PS 'Guys' is non-gender-specific!

[Brian]

Thanks Gerry,
Sounds good to me. Will probably try that if the new frame with eggs doesn't work.
Appreciate!
Brian

[Trog]

I put a frame with eggs into my dubious colony and they've raised a lovely queen cell which was ready to emerge when I last checked. The weather is fine with high pressure dominating so, we'll see! Still drones around and drone brood being raised in the other colonies, so mating should be OK if she gets a move on.

[Brian]

Hi Guys,
I am pleased to report said hive now has an active queen tho' tis early days yet. We'll see.Thanks for all the input.
Brian

[Calum]

Had a nail biter myself this weekend. Found a hive with drones in it still (unusual here just now). Checked - no queen - probably a victim of the formic acid treatment.
Luckily I left the bees in a queen raising box when I removed the last queen, so I still had a young queen up my slieve (they raised a replacement)....
That will be standard practice from now on for me. The lineage will not be so good but better to have a couple in hand..

[Brian]

From Brian with thanks to all those who helped with advice = Seems I have a good working queen now (late September). I have been very fortunate. Thanks to all. Brian