Soft-set honey

[Mellifera Crofter]

Twice now, my soft-set honey has been affected by frosting. I wonder what I might be doing wrong.

The first time it happened, I left the honey for too long in the settling tank, and it was already quite stiff when I eventually jarred it. I thought that was the reason for the frosting (see the first photo), where the frosting is all the way down the side.

But as for my recent batch of jars - I don't know. It's visible in the second photo. It looks as though the honey has pulled away from the walls near the neck of the jar. (This is not due to a trick of the light.)

Could a difference in temperature between the jars (warmish) and the honey (probably room temperature after a day's settling), have caused the frosting? (Although it's not happened before.)

Kitta

2994 2993

[fatshark]

Hi Kitta

I always warm both - the honey and the jar. I think a lot of frosting is tiny bubbles rising through the cooling (hardening) honey, perhaps also pulling away from the jar as well.

After my soft set, er, sets I rewarm it thoroughly to mid-30's C (well below melting, but enough to get it moving) and then run it into warmed jars. At this temperature it is easier to jar and I've seen little if any frosting.

I'm doing some more tonight :)

Good luck

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks Fatshark. So, it's probably a temperature thing - but I'm not quite sure how you manage that. After you've softened your hard OSR honey, and mixed it in with runny honey to make a future soft-set honey - how do you heat it up again? Do you put the mixture in a settling tank (with a tap), and then in your warming cabinet to warm, and to settle? Is your cabinet big enough to take the tank?
Kitta

[fatshark]

I think it's less of a temperature thing as a 'letting the bubbles rise before jarring it' situation. After seeding the melted OSR with ~10-20% fine-grain I mix and mix and mix over a few days until it's almost too viscous to stir. This is using a drill and a paddle ... I dream of a machine to do this. I do this in a bucket with a tap. This then goes into the honey warming cabinet at 35-37oC for ~12 hours, then I jar it.

My honey warming cabinet isn't big enough, but it is big enough to take a couple of 30lb buckets with taps. I prefer to jar small batches (20- 60lb) more frequently rather than have large amounts of jarred honey sitting around. It's not efficient, but nothing much about my beekeeping is ;)

[Mellifera Crofter]

I've allowed the honey to settle, Fatshark, for at least 24 hours in both batches (in the first batch probably even too long), and always scoop off the mousse for myself before jarring it! I need a new bucket with a tap. I'll get a smaller one to fit into the warming cabinet, and see if that makes a difference.
Kitta

[Adam]

I have to admit that I don't get sufficient consistency with soft set - and a probably need a better mixing paddle which might help (I believe Abelo have the best one).
Frosting is usually due to granulation - although your honey Kitta looks pretty OK really. What's it like of you open the offending jar ?

[Jambo]

probably need a better mixing paddle which might help (I believe Abelo have the best one).


I would urge caution with this one: https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/creaming-machines/honey-creamer-paddle-creamer/
If you touch the bottom of the bucket with it going at full tilt it introduces plastic shavings into the honey.

[fatshark]

Hi Kitta
You definitely need a bucket with a tap ... I don't scoop off the 'mousse', but instead leave it and the last 3-4lb of honey in the bucket ready to seed the next batch.
It's also worth letting the honey settle (and bubbles rise) in the jar in the cooling honey warming cabinet before labelling.

The paddle I use is one of the old style corkscrew ones from Thorne's. It does introduce bubbles into the honey if you use it too vigorously.

[Mellifera Crofter]

I do have a bucket with a tap, Fatshark - but it's on its way out. I want to replace it with one that fits my warming cabinet (like you're doing). Leaving the mousse as seed is a good idea. My husband does the labelling and he did complain that he seems to be wasting his time. From now on I'll wait a while to see what's happening with the honey.

Adam, I did open one of the jars on Sunday. The top was frosty, and whitish, and the honey pulled away from the jar as in the photo. So, since you asked, I went to take a photo of the opened jar - and both the frosting and the gap had disappeared! A couple of days in a warm kitchen with a Rayburn seems to have done the trick. Now I'm thinking that I might have cooled down the honey too rapidly after jarring. I stored it overnight in the car in an attempt to get it to set in time for the honey show. (I didn't win a prize!)

Kitta

[Adam]

I would urge caution with this one: https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/creaming-machines/honey-creamer-paddle-creamer/
If you touch the bottom of the bucket with it going at full tilt it introduces plastic shavings into the honey.

That's good information, thanks. I'll just have to spend £1000 on a creaming machine! :(

[Neils]

somewhat related question. one batch of honey, jarred up at the same time. all the honey in the round 1lb jars is clear, all the honey in the hex 12oz jars has set. no difference in treatment at all. what the fudge is driving that because i’m at a loss to explain it.

[Mellifera Crofter]

That’s odd, Neil. Could it be that, being smaller, the 12 oz jars crystallised quicker because they got colder quicker?

[Neils]

Honestly don't know, wondering if it might have something to do with shape in combination with temp or something.

[alancooper]

I have been trying to make my soft-set ivy honey softer than my usually softish-to-semihard stuff, but still not approaching that of supermarket soft set the texture that shoppers seem to prefer. Should I accept that it is not possible? Has anyone had a good result?
Alan.

[fatshark]

I've not attempted soft set with ivy. The softest soft set I make usually results from using a reasonable amount of a suitable 'seed' and then mixing it really well, morning and night, over several days. This ends up creamy smooth and retains its consistency very well.

Is there a good market for ivy? I thought it was a bit of an acquired taste. Moot point for me really as I never get a crop from it :(

[alancooper]

Hi Fatshark,
I used about 15% seed - so smooth you were hardly hardly aware of a texture. I cut the crystallised ivy comb from super frames drawn by my bees on super frames without foundation and supported by wooden skewers). I separated the honey from the wax overnight at about 60C and filtered it through a muslin bag at 30C to get the liquified honey. Temperature control was with a well-calibrated warming cabinet.
I mixed with the seed with a stirrer attached to an electric drill (very slow speed) and left for 12hrs at about 10C. By this time crystallisation had occurred but the consistency was such that I could spoon it into jars (thankfully it was still warm and soft enough to settle without air bubbles). I had been hopeful of running it into jars before setting had proceeded - next time I will jar straight after mixing. If I had tried to mix (before jarring) again, the drill would not have been able to manage.
The end product now, can be spooned out of the jar - with effort, but not enough effort to dissuade those who like it on toast before dashing off to work (I hope). The taste is magnificent - certainly does not (for me and others I know) come under the heading of acquired. I am able to sell soft set ivy (albeit last years crop which was not as soft), but most people here are used to using runny, clear, summer honey and consider, culturally, that crystallised honey is inferior. Probably a serious bee keeper would consider soft set ivy honey to be too much of a chore.
Alan.

[fatshark]

Thanks Alan

I know what you mean about people considering clear runny summer honey being preferable. Some places only want that to sell. It's less work, so that's OK. However, it doesn't help shift all the buckets of rock solid spring honey I've got in the storeroom :(

I make my soft set in a similar way to you describe except after mixing (at ~13°C for as long as it takes) I then warm it again to 35-37°C for 24 hours to help the (inevitable) bubbles rise and to get it to a good temperature for jarring. I've found this reduces frosting.