Supercedure queen cells query

[Bridget]

Dear All
Does a supercedure mean the virgin queen leaves with the swarm? If so I never knew that. Ted Hooper says there can be two virgins with a supercedure swarm. One of ours today, a captured swarm from Tuesday from our apiary, looked in swarming mood. And then they all went back in. And then some of them came out again and bearded on the front. I wondered if there were two virgins in there and they were thinking of splitting again with one virgin.
Of course it might be that they are too hot and need some more space on top such as a super. It was a good size swarm that went into a Brood box on Tuesday. The hive was in full sun today so we shaded it and they all went in again.
Lots of love
Confused of Drumguish [emoji2]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Thymallus]

Dear All
Does a supercedure mean the virgin queen leaves with the swarm? o

You don't get swarming with supercedure.
What you may have seen is a virgin being accompanied on the initial bit of a mating flight with other bees. It is difficult to tell apart from swarming...apart for this lot come back.
.I've only seen it a few times and the "swarm" stayed in the tree tops before returning. There are thoughts that the emergence of the bees with the virgin is a form of protection from potential predators...as in they will get a worker rather then the important queen due to numbers.

[Adam]

I have witnessed one 'mating swarm' a few years ago - they all came back and the queen started to lay a few days later. Jon has also written about them from mini-nucs where they all leave although I think that mini-nucs are an artificial construction and too small so the colonies behave differently sometimes. A supercedure usually results in the new queen killing her sister virgins and then taking over the colony after Mum is removed too - although I would guess that it is possible that two supercedure queens could emerge and the colony is triggered into "misbehaving" i.e. not doing what the books say. For your caught swarm, they have, maybe, not fully accepted that your hive is their new home and they will have no brood which can be an anchor to keep them in place so they have not fully settled - yet?

[Bridget]

I have witnessed one 'mating swarm' a few years ago - they all came back and the queen started to lay a few days later. Jon has also written about them from mini-nucs where they all leave although I think that mini-nucs are an artificial construction and too small so the colonies behave differently sometimes. A supercedure usually results in the new queen killing her sister virgins and then taking over the colony after Mum is removed too - although I would guess that it is possible that two supercedure queens could emerge and the colony is triggered into "misbehaving" i.e. not doing what the books say. For your caught swarm, they have, maybe, not fully accepted that your hive is their new home and they will have no brood which can be an anchor to keep them in place so they have not fully settled - yet?

Well you were right Adam. Not fully settled and now they have gone. Searched the surroundings but no sight or sound. Perhaps we should have fed them to make them stick. Still, we have enough hives to be going on with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Adam]

and now they have gone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sorry to lear that they have gone. I lost my first swarm some time ago and chased them down the road. Unfortunately they were too fast for me and disappeared into the distance! Swarm travelling distance is typically 500 to 1000 metres if I remember 'Winston' correctly.

[Jon]

Hi Adam. I saw this once in a supersedure situation as well so not exclusively related to mini nucs

http://www.native-queen-bees.com/apiary-vicinity-mating/