Late September test frame

[Mellifera Crofter]

Do you think a test frame, here in Aberdeenshire, in late September, will give a true result? Is it worth searching in other colonies for a frame of brood with young larvae to introduce to a possible queenless colony?

A colony might be queenless, but they realise that there aren't any drones about - so, they don't bother drawing out a queen cell, and then we come to the wrong conclusion.

Kitta

[fatshark]

Presumably you just want to know whether they're queenright. You're not hoping they'll raise a new Q? Surely you're knee-deep in snow by now ;)
I have lots of colonies with young larvae, so that's probably not an issue.
My concern would be the potential queenless colony hasn't reared - and possibly now won't - enough, or any, winter bees.

I'd unite over a queen excluder at this stage of the season ...

[Mellifera Crofter]

Snow? No, not yet! Even up here - but wet, windy and dreich for days on end, except yesterday. And what I found when searching for larvae was mostly capped brood and a smattering of eggs. Hardly any young larvae.

I'm trying to help two beekeepers nearby, both with a colony that appears to be queenless. I've already given one beekeeper a test frame, and no queen cells were drawn out - but can I trust that result? I gave him another test frame yesterday, and if a queen is there, I hope she'll get the hint and start laying.

The other beekeeper has two top-bar hives which means I'll have to graft larvae into individual cups as you've shown on here before (because his own queenright colony is like most of mine: eggs and capped brood - no larvae). So, that's a bit of a palaver for me, particularly if I don't know if I can trust the result this late in the season.

With this one I'm a bit more confident that they really are queenless - so, we just might unite, but without a queen excluder as I don't have one for a tob-bar hive. I'll have another search in his queen-right hive to see if I can find larvae before uniting.

I suppose if you use a queen excluder in a September unite, it's just to give the queen in the top box, if she is there, a bit more time to start laying, rather than risk an immediate fight?

Kitta

[madasafish]

I have united TBHs in the past making a cardboard follower board (crudely - ends folded along side walls and bottom. Cut out the centre section and taped in newspaper. A few small tears - and it works...

[Poly Hive]

I think if they are truly queenless then yes they will draw a cell. I don't think they think that logically as you are proposing: that no drones means don't bother.

More I suspect that a good feed might provide an answer for your two in doubt. The weather is not local to you sorry to say but it has been bloody horrible down here too. Many fields of spring sown grain still to harvest and one of our locals tried to combine yesterday evening but rain stopped play again after two hours. I hate to think of the gruel he must have had in the tank.

I suggest a feed as it may kick start the queens into laying again.

PH

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks, MF, and PH.

I hope you're right about the test frame, PH, and that I can assume that my first test frame that resulted in no drawn queen cells means there is a queen - even this late.

I also think you're right about the feeding. The friend is feeding syrup, but I've suggested that he should give them some pollen patties because I found hardly any stored pollen in the hive. But on Tuesday's visit when I gave him the second test frame, I saw bees with pollen and a few cells with pollen - so, perhaps a good sign?

I'll give the TBH chap a choice between newspaper and a scented spray, MF - but when I go this weekend (hoping for better weather), I'll first check to see if there are larvae in his other hive to use as a test frame.

Kitta