Beekeeping court case

[drumgerry]

Posting this for people's information without comment on the merits or otherwise of the case

http://stv.tv/news/tayside/1372385-royal-beekeeper-accused-of-giving-banned-drugs-to-animals/

[Black Comb]

Wow!
I assume as it has been posted in here we can discuss?

2 things come to mind :-
1. According to Beebase the U.K. wide VMD allows Checkmite+ to be imported via a vet.
2. These alleged offences are not that recent.

[Calluna4u]

I have posted a response on another forum where it turned up first. I cannot say too much at this time.

[drumgerry]

I think that is absolutely fair enough C4U. All the best.

[madasafish]

I have posted a response on another forum where it turned up first. I cannot say too much at this time.

I wish you all the best.

[Calluna4u]

I see this is all over the press again tonight.

As stated before I will give a full account of things to the bee community after its all done and dusted.

Seems the other side can say what they like but if I do its possibly contempt of court...............

Rest assured its not as bad as the press reports make it seem.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Best wishes with the case, C4U.
Kitta

[Thymallus]

A total off topic question, Calluna4u, but as a commercial keeper how do you manage swarming with the large number of hives and the limited time you have?
Illegitimi non carborundum.....


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This generated discussion on swarm control so I moved these posts to a new thread. You can find that discussion here: http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?2385-Commercial-swarm-control-methods

G.

[Greengage]

The post seems to have gone off topic, I see its on the Irish beekeeping facebook page, lots of righteous people there. https://www.facebook.com/groups/bees.ireland/?multi_permalinks=1208041132564681&notif_t=group_highlights&notif_id=1484987186448066
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-38662509?SThisFB

[Calluna4u]

The court case finally concluded today.

Reports in the press and on radio are OTT. A press release, not disputed, was made after the sentencing but appear not to have been used by the more sensational reporters.

I am posting it for information only. Nothing in it should be taken in any way to be attributable to those who operate this forum.

In the end I was fined for two technical breaches of veterinary medicines law, namely the procuring and possession of OTC without a proper license to do so, and prior to a prescription being issued.

I was not penalised for its use.

If this topic is of interest to any of you please read the following in full before firing off an opinion.

.................................................. .................................................. .....................................

Denrosa Apiaries
Victoria Street, Coupar Angus, Perthshire, PH13 9AE, UK
Mobile 07736 115559
e-mail murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk

Bee Farmers and Honey Suppliers


Denrosa, 1st February 2017

PRESS RELEASE

Over recent months we have been going through a legal process concerning the useage of oxytetracycline for the treatment of European Foulbrood in our bees during the late summer of 2009.

Earlier that summer an outbreak of European Foulbrood (henceforth referred to as EFB), rarely seen in Scotland prior to this, was diagnosed, initially in our bees in co-operation with a locally based bee inspector, for which the Scottish bee industry and the Scottish government were completely unprepared. Upon fuller investigation it was found to already be a deep seated and widely distributed problem in much of the professional sector in eastern Scotland. That it was first discovered in our bees has no bearing on the source, which remains unknown. The outbreak had the potential to decimate the bee industry.

There was no full time government inspection service and no preparedness in place for such an unanticipated event, but the Scottish government quickly put together a team from a standing start to address the problem. This was all done with the full co-operation of the bee industry as this was a huge crisis and required all to be pulling together to prevent the destruction of the professional bee sector and probable eventual spread into all sectors.

At all times during this event we played a leading role in this co-operation, and assisted in the government in development of a plan to contain the spread of the disease and to provide temporary medically aided protection pending a proper assessment, in anticipation it would take until spring 2010 for a full assessment of colonies to be undertaken. The problem was so large, and the state of preparedness so poor, that it was impossible to deal with it all in the relatively brief window that was available to us in 2009. (In explanation, July and August are months when heather honey is being produced. It is crucial that no antibiotic is applied to bees at that time to prevent it entering the human food chain, so treatment could only be done in September and October, before winter conditions set in and the bees cannot be effectively treated or even diagnosed.)

The options available were destruction of symptomatic colonies, or treatment with oxytetracycline to keep it under control until the situation was clearer. (It was too late in the year for successful shook swarming.)

The National Bee Unit website also specifies oxytetracycline, in the formulation Terramycin, as the medical treatment for control of EFB.

From the moment it was agreed that a full programme of oxytetracycline treatment would be applied we had concerns about timing. The medication was to be provided through the government inspectorate, who were doing their absolute best, but their team was still acquiring expertise and we had a fear the supply would be delayed. So, with it being agreed that oxytetracycline would be used for temporary protection during the outbreak, we took the step of ordering in a private supply, for use in the event the official supply would be delayed. (The practicalities of performing three treatments per colony, which is the correct way it is done, on the largest bee farm in the UK, meant we needed the full 8 week window to do it.) If we had NOT ordered it, and the official supply was delayed, we would have faced the possible loss of most of our bees. It would be too late to do anything about it once the delay was actually happening, so it was ordered, initially as a precaution. We ordered the correct recommended product, but did so without going through all the proper protocols. We had already had to burn 169 colonies of our bees, the problem was spreading rapidly, and had to do our very best to save the rest. To NOT be prepared for such an eventuality would have been a dereliction of my duty to protect the bees.

The product sourced was Terramycin, which is a brand name for oxytetracycline.

This was not a secret, it was widely known we had done this, and we were at all times open about it.
By September the official supply had not appeared, and so we initiated our treatment using the privately sourced product, mixed and administered at exactly the same strength and dosage and in the identical manner to the agreed method for the supplied product, on which we all received official training.

As soon as the official supply arrived (part way through September) we moved over to that product and never used the private product again.

This was an officially sanctioned treatment using oxytetracycline, a recommended treatment for EFB. What we used was no different.

Despite press reports to the contrary this is NOT a banned medication. The status is rather that it does not have a specific approval for general use on bees but CAN be used for EFB if prescribed. Oxytetracycline WAS prescribed for this case.

Mr McGregor plead guilty to the offence of importing (from the USA) a supply of Terramycin, to possessing it for a period of time, and to using it for the initial part of the treatment programme, all without a proper licence to source the product. This much is not something we seek to deny and were completely open about it at all times and gave those investigating the matter all the information they asked for.

At no time did any OTC enter the food chain. All our honey is tested multiple times and there has never been a problem with anything we have supplied, despite misleading initial press reports.

There are also reports describing Mr. McGregor as the ‘Royal beekeeper’. This is not the case. He has never been such a person. He was fortunate enough to have the privilege of being allowed to place hives on Royal estates from the mid 1980s onwards. At no time has he ever described himself as the Royal beekeeper and indeed it is completely inaccurate to do so. He sincerely hopes the erroneous reporting has not caused embarrassment to the Royal family or anyone connected with it.


We would like to conclude by putting on record our gratitude and appreciation for the effort that all those on the official side in Scotland have made to help see the industry through these critical years. From Cabinet secretary downwards to the field inspectorate we have had nothing but help and support. Appreciation also to the brilliant team at SASA for the rapid way they adapted to the wave of samples that headed their way. We also would like to thank my colleagues elsewhere in the UK for their *universal* support, and to the Bee Farmers Association for all their help, and to the many non-Scottish bee inspectors and former bee inspectors who have been good friends and offered formal and informal support through this whole event.


Murray McGregor

[Feckless Drone]

The court case concluded.

Thanks for posting C4U. We all appreciate it will have been a difficult time with the lazy press reporting not helpful to anyone. Your interactions with authorities/SASA have contributed to the development of an excellent unit who support us all. I wish the press would talk about that and
can't actually think of seeing much good publicity for the SASA folk in the press.

Hopefully you can put this behind you and look forward to the new season.

[Jon]

You can see how shallow the press are with all the crap about 'Royal Beekeeper' Most of the reporting has managed to get that into the first paragraph.
None of the UK broadsheets, Independent (RIP) Guardian or Times have any credibility with regard to reporting beekeeping. The Guardian is so bad it makes me question its veracity on anything else it covers and I am a paid up leftie.

[Adam]

Stressful I am sure. Pleased it's reached a conclusion! At what cost I wonder? Onward!

[Calluna4u]

Sorry....its been awfully quiet on here since the New Year breakdown and I did not see your input. Its all concluded and in a very satisfactory manner for me. Would have been better if it had not happened but c'est la vie. Onwards to the new season.......19 weeks until we go to the heather again! Instant panic! 70.000 sheets of wax to fit.......and the wax is still at Thornes.

[Greengage]

I see in this months Irish Beekeeping Magazine "An Beachaire" page 136 there is a Headline "Royal Bad Behaviour!" referring to this case.
The first line states "A royal beekeeper has admitted giving a banned drug to his honey bees in what is believed to be the first case of its kind in the UK"
Having followed the proceedings on here and read the statement issued by the gentleman in question. I think they should be corrected, but its not my place to correct them. Then again maybe its none of my business to even comment here. But thought you should know.

[prakel]

Having a low oppinion of the paper-pushers to begin with, this isn't a subject which I'd want to dwell on but I think that it's worth noting the shallow, knee-jerk reactions of so many people on various social media who don't have the sense to do even the most basic research before embarking on their own small minded righteous crusade.

I've personally been aware of the 'OTC/improvemnet' notice for a few years as it's been openly available on the internet; OK, no background information but I'm sure that a private, genuine enquiry to C4u would have received a clear explanation of the situation from his perspective (I personally didn't enquire because, bluntly, I didn't/don't perceive it as being any of my business) my point is that the bones of the information have been available for years but so far as Im aware no one has commented openly....until the press jumped on the 'Royal' angle and turned the whole thing into something that it isn't, at which point all of these beekeepers crept out of the woodwork to jump on the bandwagon. Too many people worrying about what others are doing.

[Calluna4u]

Having a low oppinion of the paper-pushers to begin with, this isn't a subject which I'd want to dwell on but I think that it's worth noting the shallow, knee-jerk reactions of so many people on various social media who don't have the sense to do even the most basic research before embarking on their own small minded righteous crusade.

I've personally been aware of the 'OTC/improvemnet' notice for a few years as it's been openly available on the internet; OK, no background information but I'm sure that a private, genuine enquiry to C4u would have received a clear explanation of the situation from his perspective (I personally didn't enquire because, bluntly, I didn't/don't perceive it as being any of my business) my point is that the bones of the information have been available for years but so far as Im aware no one has commented openly....until the press jumped on the 'Royal' angle and turned the whole thing into something that it isn't, at which point all of these beekeepers crept out of the woodwork to jump on the bandwagon. Too many people worrying about what others are doing.

Sitting in my office waiting for the arrival of a bee inspector to check out some queens we are exporting.

Saw this post from prakel appear.

The improvement notice stuff was kicked out at the first hurdle. The whole process was apparently incompetent and riddled with errors. Shame it was apparently left active on the particular website. good thing is that my key clients either were unworried by it all or asked a few basic questions. The whole court case matter seems to have gone to bed, at least in any circles that matter, extremely fast.

We carry on, unfazed and unhindered, as if nothing had ever happened. I got a lot of supportive and encouraging messages, from beekeepers and non beekeepers alike. A warmer reception than I ever expected, and have only locked horns with a couple of people who really did not want any facts to get in the way of their keyboard warrior status, so refused to read the press release, which had been agreed by BOTH sides. I don't visit the Irish place any more...used to years ago...but it seemed to turn into a bit of a loony sanctuary for a while so I just left it and never went back. Whilst neither status sits comfortably with me, far more seem to be treating me as the 'caped crusader' than as the 'master criminal'.

Seriously, the new season is WAY more important.

[Jon]

Who wrote the "An Beachaire" article GG?
I'm in the UBKA rather than FIBKA so I don't get the magazine.

Murray - most of the Irish posters are on the Irish Beekeepers Facebook site now. The old Yahoo site has pretty much died a death.

[prakel]

We carry on, unfazed and unhindered................
Seriously, the new season is WAY more important.

Isn't that the truth.

I've mentioned before on a different thread that a sports science book which I read as a teenager had a paragraph in it that really 'stuck' with me, it was along these lines:

"If you tell a jogger and a runner to stop or they'll die, the jogger will stop. The runner will go out and do ten miles".

This rule holds good for most things, beekeeping included. We can get on and do it or worry about things which might never happen/aren't relevant.

[Greengage]

Who wrote the "An Beachaire" article GG?
I'm in the UBKA rather than FIBKA so I don't get the magazine.

Murray - most of the Irish posters are on the Irish Beekeepers Facebook site now. The old Yahoo site has pretty much died a death.

Its on the news and Views page signed by the Publicity Officer FIBKA

[Calluna4u]

Who wrote the "An Beachaire" article GG?
I'm in the UBKA rather than FIBKA so I don't get the magazine.

Murray - most of the Irish posters are on the Irish Beekeepers Facebook site now. The old Yahoo site has pretty much died a death.

Lol...never been on facebook...really fear that could turn into a time eater.

The time I was involved on Irish stuff, and that was as a result of being invited to go there by a guy I was corresponding with, was in the days of the Irish List. I don't know if it even still exists.

Once it was swamped by the small cell theorists and FGMO evangelists it was time to go.

One of my fellow moderators on Bee-L at the time quoted something very wise to me (no idea where the original quote came from) which was something like this.....'Never mud wrestle with a pig....you can't win and besides,...the pig rather enjoys it.'

[gavin]

Once it was swamped by the small cell theorists and FGMO evangelists it was time to go.

One of my fellow moderators on Bee-L at the time quoted something very wise to me (no idea where the original quote came from) which was something like this.....'Never mud wrestle with a pig....you can't win and besides,...the pig rather enjoys it.'

I quite enjoyed the occasional sparring with Dee Lusby and Ruth Rosin! [small cell and the dance language 'controversy' respectively] Maybe that makes me a pig. As Jon said it has died a death with perhaps one post a year. Ruth in particular was good fun. Those debates taught me a lot about human nature.

G.

[Greengage]

That face-book page is a dangerous place, I have to pick my fights or should I say the timing, a little subtle barb brings them out. its the people in the audience that are more dangerous I think the kids refer to them as stalkers, I think they are all members of where the wherethefockarwe tribe.
A work colleague described them to me as people in a dark continent who run in the long grass and every now and then jump up and ask where the F~~ck are we. I like that quote above.

[gavin]

That face-book page is a dangerous place, I have to pick my fights or should I say the timing, a little subtle barb brings them out. ....

One of the better click-bait funny sites offered this as a metaphor for internet bickering.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CudmdCWzISU

[Bridget]

Love that video!
calluna4u - in our house we say - "Not my circus, not my monkeys"


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