AFm and 'pupal tongue'

[Greengage]

Apologies but I seem to be on a bit of a roll this morning. As I mentioned earlier I attended a talk on Pests and diseases last night. AFB came up for discussion and what to look for it was very interesting talk and provoked a lot of questions. But when discussing AFB the lecturer showed a slide of a bee exhibiting a syndrome called 'pupal tongue' where the tongue protrudes to the top of the cell. I thought I read somewhere that this was not actually the bees tongue but was caused by the bee being stuck to the side of the cell wall and its weight caused this effect when it pulled away from the side wall. Does anyone know if this is true or is it actually the tongue. I was too shy to ask the question (Imagine that) I also didnt want to cause embarrassment if I was right.

[Mellifera Crofter]

I have never heard of 'pupal tongue', so had to look it up, and found some drawings explaining it. It is the tongue stuck to the cell wall as you've described, but as the larva decays, it turns into an even longer stringy bit with gooey larva pooling at the bottom of the cell - so, perhaps tongue and whatnots. It's not a nice image.
Kitta

PS: What does the M in AFM stand for?

[Greengage]

M= Mistake it should have been AFB I can only type with two fingers and M is two letters across on bottom key.

[madasafish]

I had pupal tongue in my AFB outbreak..Not an image I care to remember.

Annual inspection after outbreak by BI last week shows I have now been clear for a year.

The hole in the lawn where bees/frames/crownboards etc were burnt and buried is nicely grassed over and indistinguishable from the remainder of the lawn.

[Greengage]

Is it true that poly hives can be sterilised but wooden ones need to be burnt. but back to the origional question is it the proboscis or just the larvae stuck to the wall, I cannot find the link where I read it.

[madasafish]

It's the larvae stuck.

Poly hives can be sterilised. Wooden hives are flamed in the interior... Three of mine were flamed and are in re-use with no issues.

[Greengage]

It's the larvae stuck.

Poly hives can be sterilised. Wooden hives are flamed in the interior... Three of mine were flamed and are in re-use with no issues.

Interesting over here they must be burnt in a pit and overseen that you do so, thats the Law, as to whether its carried out in all cases I dont know.

[Jon]

I think it is just the bees and frames which have to be burnt under supervision in an AFB case.

[madasafish]

I think it is just the bees and frames which have to be burnt under supervision in an AFB case.

In UK - yes.

In a pit normally which is then backfilled - to prevent any unburned residues infecting bees.

[The Drone Ranger]

Is it really the tongue ?


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[Greengage]

Thats the question.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Is it really the tongue ?

Yes, I think so, DR. Photo 5 on this site (http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agriculture/pests-diseases-and-weeds/animal-diseases/bees/a-guide-to-the-field-diagnosis-of-honey-bee-brood-diseases), and Figure 2, B and C on this site (http://beesource.com/resources/usda/diseases-and-pests-of-honey-bees/)shows the tongue stuck to the top fairly clearly. The larva decomposes, but the tongue remains stuck to the cell wall.
Kitta

[Greengage]

Yes, I think so, DR. Photo 5 on this site (http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agriculture/pests-diseases-and-weeds/animal-diseases/bees/a-guide-to-the-field-diagnosis-of-honey-bee-brood-diseases), and Figure 2, B and C on this site (http://beesource.com/resources/usda/diseases-and-pests-of-honey-bees/)shows the tongue stuck to the top fairly clearly. The larva decomposes, but the tongue remains stuck to the cell wall.
Kitta

Happy so, its the tongue.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Kitta and GG
The larva must be dying at a fairly late stage if it has a tongue (I guess)


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[Mellifera Crofter]

Hi Kitta and GG
The larva must be dying at a fairly late stage if it has a tongue (I guess) ...

Yes, you're right, DR. To talk about a 'larva' (and I did say that) is wrong - it's 'pupa', as already mentioned in GG's title 'pupal tongue'. As we know, they only die after the cell is sealed and the larva has spun its cocoon. According to Celia Davis, the appendages pop out during the prepupal period (between day 9 to 13). So, it's the tongue stuck to the cell and the prepupa or pupa decaying around it.
Kitta

[The Drone Ranger]

Got it Kitta
So you think the poor old larva carries on developing to about day 12 then pegs out :)
That would fit in with Les Bailey "infectious diseases of the honeybee"
Apparently the bacteria doesn't do much in the gut
It's when the larva pupates it can make its way through the gut wall into the haemolymph
Poor old bee
Odd that the tongue doesn't rot with the rest though



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