Will I live to regret this.

[Greengage]

Here in ireland NUIG Galway are carrying out research on tolerance to Varroa in Irish honey bees. Any way I am contributing to the research and carrying out the sugar shaker test for Varroa it would appear I am below the threashold for treating. So I have taken an executive decision not to treat, My bigger problem will I live to regret this decision has anyone else decided not to treat in the past and regretted it or is anyone not going to treat this year. I have heard from other bee keepers first hand that they also have low threashold and are indecisive as to wheather to threat or not, I have also heard from Bee keepers who have high varrora count and they are treating as we speak.

[Emma]

Here's my experience:
After my first season, I counted natural mite drop, compared it with the chart in the Fera leaflet, and didn't treat.
The result was that my second season was an endless battle with varroa mites. I drone culled like no tomorrow, & tried several other things, including a summer oxalic treatment during a brood break on the worse affected colony. Gave lots of drone brood to Aberdeen Uni for their research & was told I had some of the mitiest drone brood they'd seen...
OTOH, the colonies all survived & thrived, so it wasn't a complete disaster.
A winter or two later, when I was much more experienced at assessing mite levels, of 6 colonies I oxalic trickled two, just HiveCleaned two, and left two untreated. All had very low mite levels for the next season or so.
So... you could be just fine, but it's bees, so there are no guarantees!
FWIW, having seen what's dropping now as the brood nests contract, I'll be treating all of mine this winter.
Sugar rolling is said to be a really good test (apart from the distress caused to the bees); I must learn to do it. (I'm thinking you mean the one where you put them in a jar & roll them in sugar?)

[chris]

has anyone else decided not to treat in the past and regretted it .

Yep. This year I am treating for the first time in 10 years. The thymol smell is wafting through the house as I type this. Apart from losing all my colonies twice, the real downside in not treating is having weakish colonies that struggle on, and strong colonies that suddenly collapse. A diminished honey production has been fairly regular. I'm sure what they are doing in Ireland is well thought out and will contribute in the long run to bees that can resist. Like all good causes, are you prepared to donate?

[Jon]

How many mites did you have in your 300 bee sample GG?
I have been sampling colonies for 3 years and mite drop from 300 bees has varied from 0 to 66 depending on the colony.
I have sampled about 5 apiaries this year and had low mite counts in every one so this might just be the year when you can get away without treating.
Having said that I treated all my colonies with Apiguard and all my nucs with ApilifeVar. better safe than sorry.

The NIHBS website has all the info about this (http://nihbs.org/ireland-varroa-monitoring-project/).

[The Drone Ranger]

I'm pretty sure every two years there is a wave of optimism about varroa levels

I would just slip an apilife-var treatment on
its effective doesn't harm the bees and only takes seconds to apply
Then you can see what the drop looks like
I cant understand why people waffle on about doing 3 treatment cycles of oxalic evaporation while there is brood
Its very time consuming by comparison, no better effectiveness, and lugging gear around three times is nuts (save that for Winter)

I posted a stacked bar graph from 2009 season on here a while back and some of the biggest drops came from hives that looked pretty clear I think

Don't let me put you off experimenting with non treatment though GG, I am just naturally pessimistic :)

[Greengage]

Jon, I carried out the sugar roll twice first time in May No mites were observed, Second time August 24th on the four hives I checked two had no mites observed and two hives only had 3 mites each. I have read the info on the NIHBs website and the info sent by NUIG, Ive also discussed it with local rep and even when I attended the workshop at his Apiary he had low mite counts. The weather window would be good now to put on Apiguard now as it is allowed in the Republic of ireland.
I think I am losing my nerve now in not treating but better do something in the next 24 hours as weather will not be good for too long more. I dont think NUIG will repalce my bees if I suffer losses. I applaud what they are doing but dont think the chap carrying out the research is a not bee keeper he is a scientist big difference there. Maybe I should have dusted the whole brood box with sugar and checked the bottom slider boards for mite drop.
Thought this was a good presentation so I followed the timings for rolling bees. https://pollinators.msu.edu/resources/beekeepers/varroa-mite-monitoring/

[gavin]

1% of workers with a mite is an excellent result. I don't see why you are fretting - I'd leave off treatment now, do the winter oxalic treatment, and monitor again through next season.

[nemphlar]

Will queens laying into late August not skew the phoretic mite count. Has anyone completed an August count that was contradicted by the winter treatment

[SDM]

In a year when my bees took a couple of laying breaks, mite drops 48brs after their first vale were all very low. They were extremelyow after their winter broodless vape( most with zero detected). The highest drop was 30, indicating a mite load of 120. I've no reason to think my bees show any particular vsh or Varroa tolerance. My guess is it's simply the erratic seasons nectar flow that's accounting for low mite levels and not any particular trait. That said low mite levels are low mite levels, so not treating this autumn is unlikely to be terminal.
I however completed round 2 of vaping yesterday, who knows what will be required of our winter bees. If I was going to skip one it would be the broodless one. Much more effective for sure but it's the ones born in the next several weeks that need the help most.

[madasafish]

Will queens laying into late August not skew the phoretic mite count. Has anyone completed an August count that was contradicted by the winter treatment

I have one hive dropping 3/day natural drop. During OA vapourisation it has averaged dropping 40/day for 15 days...

[Greengage]

Came across this video on their life cycle,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE4emUMyOWs

[nemphlar]

I,m asking as I don't have much confidence in these counts. My own experience at broodless OA treatment time often bore little relationship to what I thought was going on in August. This is my second year giving a 1 week FA treatment halfway through August, only 1 hive showed a slightly higher count at 600 the rest were<50. I'll still treat them with OA come the time.
I used the Snelgrove board again this year and I think the brood break does seem restrict varroa expansion.

[Greengage]

Maybe this should be a different thread but can bees be taught to remove mites, Honey Bees have a complex social structure. Their roles vary with their age house bee, nursing bee, queen attendant, guard bee, forager they decide to make new queens and to swarm, they communicate with one another as to where food sources are available via different dances on the comb.
All of the above described behaviors are probably not learned by a bee but are probably encoded in their DNA, but I assume they must have an ability to learn, so do older bees teach younger bees, therefore if you have workers who have the ability to to remove mites could they be transfered to another hive to teach younger bees the skill.
Bees learn how to locate the hive when to go out forageing this cannot be in their DNA especially if you move them or unite them with bees in a different apiary. They can relate to the pheremone in the hive which allows them locate it and recoginise fellow members of the hive and prevent others from entering except drones from other hives. so can they be taught by other bees. (Way too much time for thinking)

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi GG
Bees learn where the hive is and if you mess them about they learn to identify you as an enemy :)
They know the smell of a wrong un flying up to the door of their honey bank although they are more concerned with unwelcome withdrawals than deposits when opening the door to visitors
They might not learn how to identify varroa so easily though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE4emUMyOWs
Check that lecture out if you haven't already
Incidentally while transferring bees from a nuc to full size hive I stumbled and did a dance on the extra combs
Bees showed no more interest in the foundation after the dance than before though