Bee behaviour interpretation needed

[wheresthedog]

Hi all,

I'm requeening two hives and in each one there is currently a lovely Queen in an introduction cage. They are both feisty hives and wanting to do all I can to ensure success I put them in yesterday without pulling the tab. The website I bought them from recommends leaving them like this for 24 hours to see if the bees are interested but non-agressive.

I went back in just now and the bees have all but sealed both cages in both hives up with wax - they've plugged the plastic mesh. What are they trying to tell me - if this an attempt to entomb the queens and her attendants or something more benign?

I've scrapped off the wax and shut them back up with plastic tabs still in place to await some forum wisdom.

[madasafish]

Check they are not raising QCs... and pull them down if they are.. And check again ..

[wheresthedog]

Thanks for this. I checked and there's no queen cells in either (or any laying workers). There wasn't much wax just little squares of it in each mesh hole but I wasn't expecting to see that which made me think something is awry?

[fatshark]

Are the introduction cages adjacent to a brood frame? I've had them building brace comb near or bridging a cage, but not trying to block the cage. An alternative and effective way to introduce is to use a big square cage of wire mesh, trapping the Q over a patch of emerging brood. This has worked well for me in bad tempered hives. Nicot sell a suitable cage, but you can make one out of OMF-type wire mesh.

[wheresthedog]

Thanks fatshark. I think i'll give that a go though would it matter if the emerging brood was from another colony? I'm thinking if pheromone is an issue to acceptance then brood from queen A with introduced Queen B running all over it in queenless Hive C might make things harder?

[wheresthedog]

2713

Went back in this afternoon and they'd filled up the holes again. Think i'll go the queen in under mesh with her attendants on brood route like fatshark suggested.....

(I emailed Michael Bush and he simply said "I don't think they like your queen" :)

[prakel]

Thanks for this. I checked and there's no queen cells in either (or any laying workers). There wasn't much wax just little squares of it in each mesh hole but I wasn't expecting to see that which made me think something is awry?

There's an old article possibly in the BIBBA 'Bee Improvement' magazine (I think that Dave Cushman may well have been the author although it may even have been Roger Patterson), devoted to this nefarious behaviour. I'm unable to check details at present but will do so as soon as I get chance -unless someone else can post something in the meantime.

[prakel]

(I emailed Michael Bush and he simply said "I don't think they like your queen" :)

Sounds like Mr Bush and I finally have some common ground -although I doubt 'like' has anything to do with it, maybe more a case of simply acting on a preference for their own bloodline. Chances are, even if she's introduced 'successfully' she may well be the subject of an attempted supercedure before the season's out.

[SDM]

Take the attendants out of the cage !

[wheresthedog]

Sounds like Mr Bush and I finally have some common ground -although I doubt 'like' has anything to do with it, maybe more a case of simply acting on a preference for their own bloodline

Ha! I should say that he followed up with another email saying that he feels the hives are likely not queenless. i can't imagine there's a queen in the nuc I made up hours before putting a caged queen in it but the other is not beyond the realms of possibility? It's a split which I wanted to raise its own queen. A queen should have emerged around the 15th June and having waited 5 weeks since, I presumed she had failed to mate or indeed survive at all (I never saw her) hence the purchase of a mated queen.

I put a frame of open brood in prior to the bought queens arrival and they duly built QC's so I though they we good for an introduction but they seem to have other ideas. I made up a full frame cage out of OMF like fatshark suggested and she's under that on a side of emerging brood from the split's mother colony. The same frame of brood that was put in to test for queenlessness a week ago. I guess i'll leave the hive shut up until the brood emerges and take it from there.


Take the attendants out of the cage ! Will do!

[wheresthedog]

Is it known how long a (queen) bee can survive without being fed? I'd like to leave the hives alone now after so many intrusions and plan to go back in on starve day -1 in case she hasn't been fed.

[fatshark]

They'll feed her through the cage/wire ... unless they completely entomb it in wax :(
You'll usually find they burrow underneath the edge of the wire to release her in due course.

[prakel]

Is it known how long a (queen) bee can survive without being fed? I'd like to leave the hives alone now after so many intrusions and plan to go back in on starve day -1 in case she hasn't been fed.

I know you're now talking about the push in cage but when doubtful for any reason at all I've often left queens in standard introduction/travel cages (with or without attendants depending on where I've sourced the queens) for seven days before removing the tab. IF you go back and find that the queen has starved to death in the cage the one thing that you can console yourself with is that they weren't going to accept and keep her long term anyway.

[Jon]

I would strongly suspect that your colonies are not queenless

[Jon]

Bees normally add a bit of wax to the outside of the introduction cage but they don't normally seal it up completely like that.

[wheresthedog]

Thanks For the continued info. Here's an update and another puzzle....

I left the two bought queens in the push in cages for a week and released them. One queen has been accepted and is laying up nicely. The other one on the other hand.....

At first all seemed well. A week after releasing her, she was still present and had begun to lay. The week after that however and she was no where to be seen with no eggs present. I looked and looked (for around 15 mins) and eventually found what I presumed to be a 'scrub' queen (small but definitely queen shaped) which seemed to confirm Jon's feelings that the hive wasn't in fact queenless after all. I watched her on the frame for a minute or two and she seemed to be going through the motions of laying eggs - dipping her abdomen into cells pausing and moving on to the next but she wasn't depositing any eggs.

I thought i'd leave her be and see what happened and I marked her so I could find her more easily next time.

A week later I opened it up and it was full of eggs! All perfectly sited in the bottom of the cells and only one a piece so must have been laid by a queen and not a laying worker. I went through the frames and did a double take when I saw the bought queen had come back and had virtually laid up the whole brood box with the freshly marked/scrub queen of the week previous was nowhere to be seen?!

All was well if a bit confusing but happy that both bought queens seemed to have been accepted.

Went in today to inspect and the hive appears to queenless again with no sign of her and all the eggs have gone - ie no brood where the eggs should have hatched. The bees seem to have ousted the bought queen, removed all her eggs and have started to fill the vacant cells with honey? It's as if I dreamt last week. Could I be going crazy?

[Emma]

You took up beekeeping, so you must be crazy already ;)

How much sealed brood is there?