Preparing for cut comb

[greengumbo]

Bit early but since my "late dash for spring honey omnishambles" I thought I would prepare for the heather well in advance !

I am looking to get a good yield of cut comb this year. Last season I simply gave the bees a box each of thin wax, wireless foundation. This worked pretty well for nationals but I don't have such thin wax for my Langstroth hives. Is it practical to give these lang hives a box of frames with a strip of foundation along the top inch of each frame and hope they draw it out themselves ? Or any other experienced beeks have other methods ? I use a simple cutter for the comb and liked the results last year.

Cheers GG

[fatshark]

Hi GG ...

Can't comment on cut comb as that's a dark art as far as I'm concerned. However, I have often used foundationless frames in the supers as you describe and the bees draw them out really well if there's a good flow. Make sure the hive is perfectly level or you'll have an interesting time pulling the frames out.

I should add that I've no experience of how strong a heather 'flow' is, my comments are for spring/summer hedgerow forage. However, I don't see any real difference between how quickly bees draw foundation or build it from scratch (other than the wax is particularly lovely in the latter :o ).

PS Don't you have a day job?

PPS Use 1 cm of foundation (1/2" for Brexiters) to save wonga and secure it firmly in the slot. I've had a few strips drop out this year. Others simply turn the bar that holds the foundation down through 90o and coat it with melted wax.

[greengumbo]

Hi GG ...

Can't comment on cut comb as that's a dark art as far as I'm concerned. However, I have often used foundationless frames in the supers as you describe and the bees draw them out really well if there's a good flow. Make sure the hive is perfectly level or you'll have an interesting time pulling the frames out.

I should add that I've no experience of how strong a heather 'flow' is, my comments are for spring/summer hedgerow forage. However, I don't see any real difference between how quickly bees draw foundation or build it from scratch (other than the wax is particularly lovely in the latter :o ).

PS Don't you have a day job?

PPS Use 1 cm of foundation (1/2" for Brexiters) to save wonga and secure it firmly in the slot. I've had a few strips drop out this year. Others simply turn the bar that holds the foundation down through 90o and coat it with melted wax.

Cheers for that FS - that was my instinct. Heather can be pretty full on in my experience so I think they wont have trouble drawing out a box.

Beekeeping seems to be my evening job at the moment ! ......bees all moved to their summer lodgings and new hives as of today between thunderstorms and I am really looking forward to a decent break starting with family hols from monday :)

[fatshark]

Just back from moving some myself GG ... I'm hoping the damp in June has helped the lime.
Have a good break.

[Mellifera Crofter]

... I am really looking forward to a decent break starting with family hols from monday :)

How did you prepare your bees for your summer hols, GG? I'm leaving mid-July for a week or so, and I'm quite nervous about leaving the bees.
Kitta

[The Drone Ranger]

Are you worried about swarming or starvation Kitta ?

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[mbc]

I like to put a single horizontal stainless wire through the thin foundation, it's easy enough to pull out if they work the frame sufficiently to cut into cut combs but also gives enough support should they only half fill it so as it can be spun out in the extractor, much more likely to be completed on its next outing on a hive.

[Calluna4u]

Its now some 30 years since we did a full trial on the various ways with heather honey, from deep boxes of drawn comb (best) to sections (worst) for harvest.

Starter strips in shallow boxes got on average about 30% of the crop deeps of drawn comb got, and full sheets of foundation about 40%, so about 25% more honey for sale.

Starter strips were thus demonstrably a false economy as even ONE extra piece of cut comb pretty well covers the cost difference. Best to bite the bullet and buy in the foundation. You don't HAVE to use thin super btw. Most serious comb honey producers use a grade called light brood for this, similar in thickness to economy brood foundation here, and the end results are pretty well indistinguishable from using thin super, as the bees do partly adapt the thickness to their needs.

Also....with full sheets you get something more years than not, but in below average years they tend not to touch boxes set up with starter strips.

However, if economy is a major factor you don't even need frames. You can cut top bars on a table saw and also groove them then put in starter strips. Used to have a significant number of boxes like that but most the bees declined to use (ended up on the bonfire), and they plugged out the bottom box instead except in truly exceptional conditions.

That then brings you a secondary complication down the line. To get good populations of young bees for winter you MUST make sure they have plenty space to lay in and thus they must be able to get the nectar away from the active nest as fast as possible. Building comb from scratch can indeed be a rapid process in perfect conditions.....but not rapid enough for them to keep the nest open all the time. Such perfect conditions are actually relatively rare however.

Old advice was all aimed at getting comb honey at the heather, and advised cramping them to force them to do cut comb. Nice for show bench standard heather honey....but bad for winter losses ahead.

The advice about wiring is sound too. We produce our cut comb on Langstroth deep frames and the frames are fully wired with stainless wire. Its easy to snip it at the ends, heat it with a battery charger and it pulls out through the eyelets dead easy. One clip attached to a set of pliars which you grip the end of the wire with at the same time, the other clip touched onto the other end of the wire at the other end of the frame, and after maybe 2 or 3 seconds just pull the wire clean out with the pliars. This way you get lovely flat and very consistent combs. You get 14 200g pieces from a perfect comb that way.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Are you worried about swarming or starvation Kitta ?

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I'm worried about swarming, DR - but sorry - my question was widely off-topic ...
Kitta

[The Drone Ranger]

I'm worried about swarming, DR - but sorry - my question was widely off-topic ...
Kitta
How about demarree I don't use that myself but it might be a reasonable delaying tactics
http://barnsleybeekeepers.org.uk/demaree.html

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[greengumbo]

How did you prepare your bees for your summer hols, GG? I'm leaving mid-July for a week or so, and I'm quite nervous about leaving the bees.
Kitta

I'll admit I prepared them by getting stung by a nasty hive, swearing and saying I hope you do swarm! The rest I gave a wee feed where very light and made sure old queens had plenty room. The poor weather last few weeks and the end of osr has slowed them down so hoping they will be fine for now.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks DR and GG. If I have enough free brood boxes, I'll try a Demaree, DR (or Snelgrove Mark II - I got information about it from somewhere, but can't remember where); or I'll do as GG and cross my fingers. They have slowed down quite noticeably, but they may get busy again! And I'll put out more bait hives. Thanks again,
Kitta