Moving eggs?

[fatshark]

On the 6th I added a frame of eggs and young larvae to a terminally queenless colony (a failed unite) - the latter contained nothing but sealed brood and polished cells. The added frame only had eggs and larvae on one side and this was marked. There was no sign of laying workers.

On quickly checking today there are a few scruffy queen cells on the added frame, all sealed but not looking particularly tempting. Actually rubbish. On the frame facing the added eggs/larvae are a couple of pretty good sealed QC's, both of which I'd be reasonably happy with. It was too cold to do anything more than have a cursory glance or check other frames.

I can only assume the workers moved eggs or larvae onto their 'own' frame. Of course the nightmare scenario is that a small number of laying workers have started and these have been developed into QC's.

I'm intending to knock back all the unconvincing QC's on the added frame and hope it was moved eggs/larvae.

I've very rarely added frames to 'rescue' a failed colony, usually I either unite or directly requeen. This was a failed unite already - the added colony killed the recipient colony queen - and I've been away so had no other options.

Has anyone else good evidence for colonies moving eggs or young larvae about?

PS I also rarely find the odd capped drone larvae in honey supers and assume these are from laying workers. Any views?

[Jon]

I remember reading a paper which set up experiments to show that they definitely don't move eggs but I would not be 100% confident of that claim myself.

[fatshark]

I knew I had this somewhere ...

2686

the only one in 3 full supers from a colony on OSR in Spring 2014. Laying worker (singular?!) or a moved egg/larvae?

[gavin]

A laying worker is quite possible for that last one. Very interesting observations on the queen cells adjacent to a frame with the wherewithal to make them. Try this from Bee-L in Jan 2000 - a post from Sid Pullinger.

http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A2=BEE-L;d574d9a.0001D





I have a lurking suspicion that I put this letter on the List a very long
time ago but I am not sure. Now that interest has been revived I offer it
for what it is worth. It was sent to the editor of the Hampshire
Beekeeper, a small magazine which was then the official organ of the Hants
Beekeeping Association. This was the parent body of twenty three local
associations spread throughout the county. Hampshire is in central
southern England. The date was August, 1951. The writer was an experienced
beekeeper employed as the county Beekeeping Instructor in a county near
mine and much in demand as a lecturer.
"Dear Sir, There have been a number of articles from time to time in the
beekeeping press about this intriguing question, which is still regarded by
many as pure conjecture. It was observed 24 years ago, as also was the
removal of very young larvae.
A queen, especially a newly mated one, often deposits more than one egg in
a cell. Only one egg is left to hatch. What did the bees do with the
others? Tests were made to prove that bees do transport eggs and larvae,
the procedure adopted being as follows:------
A strong colony was de-queened. Queen cells were naturally started and
destroyed until all brood was capped and there was no possibility of
further queen cells. Twelve straws were selected and the ends trimmed
obliquely to resemble a quill pen. A comb containing worker and drone eggs
and young larvae was taken from another colony. Three one day old larvae
were picked out on the tip of quill, one to each straw. The rest of the
quills were dipped in royal jelly and two to four worker and drone eggs
attached. The straws were carefully bundled and suspended in the centre of
the queenless colony and left for nine days. Result, a patch of drone
brood, a patch of worker brood and three queen cells,nothing left on the
straws. The quantity of brood matched the number of eggs.
This test has been repeated since with similar results , confirming the
experiment of 24 years ago. Yours faithfully,
W. M. E. W."

It sounds straighforward enough. What we need now is ten inquiring
beekeepers with time on their hands to carry out a similar experiment
during the coming season and report back. I have left it a bit late in life
but I might have a go myself. That should settle it once and for all.

[fatshark]

Very interesting Gavin ... I also meant to add to my last post in this thread that I usually use drone brood foundation in supers, so can't differentiate between a laying workers and a drone egg/larvae being moved. I also can't remember what happens to fertilised eggs or worker larvae being placed in drone cells.

[Adam]

I am certain that bees move eggs to queencells!

I've seen a queencell in the second super - no way the queen could get there and no other brood there either. And just above the excluder as well - and no, the queencell was not touching the excluder but away from it.

As part of my queen right-rearing that I generally do, two weeks ago I saw an egg in a queencell in a demaree top brood box 4 days and a few hours after carrying out the procedure - so the queen and that brood frame had not been in contact for over 4 days with 3 supers in between and the queencell was not there when the demaree was created. The question I posed to myself at the time was, did they carry the egg up "3 flights of stairs" to the top brood box or was the egg 'held back' with delayed maturing as I believe Roger P has supposed.

(Queen-right queen-raising is where the brood is sufficiently far away from the queen that the queen pheromone is low so supercedure can occur. In my case the queen was in the lower brood box; excluder above; 3 supers above that; another queen excluder; brood box full of brood and stores above that).

Occasionally I have seen a queencell on the outside of the outermost frame of a brood box, (and lost swarms to it in the past); a frame or two away from the brood. Did the queen wander around there and deposit it in an unlikely place or did bees move it to a place where they would not expect her to find (and destroy) it?

[The Drone Ranger]

A laying worker is quite possible for that last one. Very interesting observations on the queen cells adjacent to a frame with the wherewithal to make them. Try this from Bee-L in Jan 2000 - a post from Sid Pullinger.

http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A2=BEE-L;d574d9a.0001D

[]

Thats where all my grafted larva are going
The bees are putting them back in the cells :)

[prakel]

In one of the biobee/Willie Robson podcasts (linked in this (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1178-Chain-Bridge-Honey-Farm&highlight=chain+bridge)thread) Robson mentions his bees moving drone eggs into the super immediately above the excluder.

[prakel]

A queen, especially a newly mated one, often deposits more than one egg ina cell. Only one egg is left to hatch. What did the bees do with the others?


Totally off topic, I have a sneaking suspicion based on personal observation, that the earliest eggs laid after the winter break are often eaten...

[fatshark]

Quick update on this topic ... I recovered some grafted, sealed queen cells today from my cell finisher (set up using a Cloake board). There's definitely no queen present above the QE, and hasn't been for the last 10 days. The bees had built brace comb between the bottom of the cell bar frame and the sealed QC's. On this they'd prepared 3 nice new additional charged queen cells - these were about 3-4 days behind the finished cells. The comb they'd built was worker. I made up an extra nuc and popped one of the unsealed QC's into it.