Nuc sales to the west.

[Calluna4u]

In the last few weeks we were in receipt of several cancellations of nucleus orders from west central Scotland.

It seemed to be co-ordinated, and I have just been given an explanation by someone today. In certain ways I am very disappointed that this should have happened and am thinking 'foul'.

Any nucs we sell are *strictly home bred*, using ONLY queens bred here in our unit......visited last season by the CABA group. Every colony in the breeding unit and also in the drone units nearby are from groups free of EFB for at least three years. The nucs are established using only two bars from existing healthy hives and sterilised or new frames with new foundation used to make up the rest of the nuc, then our mated laying queen added, then raised onwards in apiaries consisting ONLY of such nucs, and contains at time of sale ONLY the bees from the queen in the colony. At time of sale the nucs are fully inspected by very well trained and reliable people, usually by Jolanta herself. Later this season they are expected to also have official certification available on them.

These are well bred and very gentle bees, and those who have had them are generally very pleased with them. Sure, they are not Amm (but some are Amm type)....for those there seems to be niche demand and not a lot more......very few of our inquiries ask if we have them.

Now perhaps *some* of the cancellations of 'bees from east of Scotland' from 'prominent beekeepers' will not have come into the area in question, but there are two routes by which this has done your members a disservice. Some of these orders have gone to traders. I know this...they have told me so...and they will be getting nucs either originating from imported packages and queens, or home raised in areas which sometimes have higher EFB rates than we currently have in this area, and may not be subject to the scrutiny our own production is. Some of these orders will also now be getting bees from me anyway, just through another channel who may not be telling you this. For the avoidance of buying direct and getting the care you would get, you get the same bees from a third party and pay maybe 50 to 100 quid more.

Its no great skin off my nose, as in the last two weeks we have had a deluge of orders and are now fully sold out of overwintered nucs anyway, but it is unjust to knife an enterprise trying to address a previously identified problem (shortage of home raised nucs), and to be doing it with care, yet at the same time trying to provide at a cost that does not rip people off.

If I sell you anything imported I tell you EXACTLY what you are getting, it comes with a proper health certificate, and the authorities are also informed. Are you sure you are getting the same level of transparency and ethics from other vendors who through non declaration are deemed OK to buy from?????

[Kate Atchley]

In the last few weeks we were in receipt of several cancellations of nucleus orders from west central Scotland.

It seemed to be co-ordinated, and I have just been given an explanation by someone today. In certain ways I am very disappointed that this should have happened and am thinking 'foul'........

C4U are you willing to share the content of that "explanation"? It seems you are offering greater transparency on provenance than many folk selling bees so I'm curious as to why you appear to have been targeted.

[SDM]

C4U are you willing to share the content of that "explanation"? It seems you are offering greater transparency on provenance than many folk selling bees so I'm curious as to why you appear to have been targeted.

My guess is it's posted where those who " encouraged" the cancellation of those orders would see it.
Should they be named ? Probably not. This time.

[The Drone Ranger]

and contains at time of sale ONLY the bees from the queen in the colony.
At time of sale the nucs are fully inspected by very well trained and reliable people,
These are well bred and very gentle bees, and those who have had them are generally very pleased with them.

Think that ticks all the boxes people want

Is it a confusion caused by the imported packages from Italy?
Or a fear of SHB ?

I could understand how that might rightly or wrongly affect decisions
Usually once people commit though they don't cancel

[Calluna4u]

Think that ticks all the boxes people want

Is it a confusion caused by the imported packages from Italy?
Or a fear of SHB ?

I could understand how that might rightly or wrongly affect decisions
Usually once people commit though they don't cancel

I PM'd Kate at the start of this when she asked. Not really wanting to waste time on this subject. Someone....not been told who......sent a circular email round members of at least the Glasgow group (might have gone further) and according to my source it instructed recipients not to buy bees from the east of Scotland and in particular from a promininent beekeeper (not named).

I am assuming it to be primarily the EFB situation rather than anything else, though it is possible someone has also been muddying the waters intentionally regarding the imports which have nothing to do with our home bred nuc unit.

The chucking of rocks without actually having the manners to ask what the situation is, to see and hear the precautions taken, is fairly typical of some sections of the bee industry/craft. Ignorance is bliss and hey...who wants facts to get in the way of juicier fare?
Our own openness and readiness to tell it just exactly how it is, and have full transparency about the imports (mainly for the south anyway) seems to have some spreading suspicion rather than thinking how straight and direct we are about this. To reiterate...EVERY package of bees we bring into the country is fully declared, from the source to the final client. Steve Sunderland and Andy Wattam get a complete list for organising follow up. There are NO hidden packages around in our enterprise to be sold as fake home produced. You get EXACTLY what we say you get.

A bit saddened that this should happen in a group that I both like going along to as a speaker and whom I have readily and willingly hosted, been both a speaker and a visit host several times and used to give them syrup at cost to avoid them being ripped off, and always gave my time and travel FOC as one of the things I do to give something back.

In business terms its not significant, every single cancellation has now been sold to other buyers. There seems to be a significant loss pattern in Wales and the West Midlands and colonies that have survived tend to be small, and in the last couple of weeks sharp demand from that area has taken up all the slack, plus the recipients are so happy with what they got that we already have more orders from there for next spring than we sold this year. London area coming on stream in the last few days suffering from spring dwindle and virus collapses and looking for replacement stock. Sadly too late as we are pretty well booked up now.

[Mellifera Crofter]

I PM'd Kate at the start of this when she asked. Not really wanting to waste time on this subject. Someone....not been told who......sent a circular email round members of at least the Glasgow group (might have gone further) and according to my source it instructed recipients not to buy bees from the east of Scotland and in particular from a promininent beekeeper (not named)...

Sorry to hear that, C4U. Could it be that somebody else was, or was also, a target as there is another importer in Aberdeenshire - though on a much, much smaller scale than you and fairly new to the area.
Kitta

[EK.Bee]

Have you actually seen this email?
I'm a member at Glasgow & I haven't

[Calluna4u]

No. Have not, but have heard about it from two distinct sources. If the message does not exist it gives me cause to wonder what is going on. All very odd. Maybe it was not an email........Chinese whispers can cause real problems. Should not say that as I share a home with a Chinese lady who could take offence! <G>

I would actually be happy to hear it does not exist, as I have always found the Glasgow bunch, and CABA, to be a very pleasant and very well informed group. I even enjoy my occasional little jousts with Eric.

It was a most enjoyable day last summer at our queen and nuc units.

[EK.Bee]

No. Have not, but have heard about it from two distinct sources. If the message does not exist it gives me cause to wonder what is going on. All very odd. Maybe it was not an email........Chinese whispers can cause real problems. Should not say that as I share a home with a Chinese lady who could take offence! <G>

I would actually be happy to hear it does not exist, as I have always found the Glasgow bunch, and CABA, to be a very pleasant and very well informed group. I even enjoy my occasional little jousts with Eric.

It was a most enjoyable day last summer at our queen and nuc units.

I've checked back my received emails & asked Mhairi if she's aware of it
There was a two week period I didn't receive GBKA emails in January (I came off the committee & was erased from all email by accident)
so unless it was during this period,I don't tend to delete their emails

There is a general fear of bringing in foulbrood from the East or North & I have heard it said to be wary of bringing bees from there. That's precautionary, but I was surprised to read that someone would be specifically mentioned.

[EK.Bee]

There was a resolution passed at the GBKA 2015 AGM urging members to buy from local sources to minimise the risk of disease
All points of the compass were mentioned :) no suppliers were singled out or alluded to

Mhairi has confirmed there has been no recent emails to GBKA members with respect to bee purchases

I wouldn't think that would cause your recent cancellations?
Maybe someone is trying to wind you up?

As you can see from the thread below we failed miserably to counter the introduction of Tropilaelaps ;)

[Calluna4u]

I wouldn't think that would cause your recent cancellations?
Maybe someone is trying to wind you up?


Possibly, but one of the cancellations actually cited it, perhaps an individual heard of their plans, they maybe even told him/her, and got a personal message but misinterpreted what it meant. Then an unrelated individual told me he had had a message to the same effect. I will find out in time. I would take Mhairi's word for this absolutely, so whatever has happened it has not been officially, which is something of a relief.

The overwintered nucs are now all fully sold or reserved now anyway, so it has not cost any sales in the end. The serious majority have gone south as there seems to be a bit of a black hole for losses in east Wales and West Midlands. Had none left for the London orders. Already have orders for summer nucs with new seasons queens and the Welsh recipients last week have already ordered for NEXT spring, so I don't have a problem. I just got a little irritated at what I was TOLD was going on.

If this means I have miscalled anyone from the Glasgow area, and they are reading this, please accept my apology.

[The Drone Ranger]

Probably the least of your worries at the moment C4u
Weather foul, rape starting to show

[Calluna4u]

Probably the least of your worries at the moment C4u
Weather foul, rape starting to show

Yes indeed.......feed cost running at over 2 grand a day right now, and that just for the syrup, never mind the costs involved in feeding it. Migration suspended, feeding all the time. Some apiaries treacherously light.....but that's near 2000 been got round and total casualties (from hunger) to date seems to be only 2.

Another week and we could probably have stuck a couple of zeros on the end of that.....