Help - I don't want to give up beekeeping yet.

[Bridget]

I've been trying to get referred for immunotherapy since July when I was carted off to hospital. Highland region don't do it and Grampian (Aberdeen) won't do it for me under the NHS. Doctor today at last admitted that he hadn't a clue about bee venom desensitisation or where to go next, which is why i've heard a lot of excuses and not much else. I've been reading back through the Smimmo thread of 18 months ago where Gavin said he knew someone undergoing it at Ninewells and HJB said he was about to start at Gartnavel. Can either of you confirm this is still possible at these places. Does anyone know of any where else it can be done in Scotland and has anyone had it done privately? I would like to know who would do this and approx cost even if it was a few years ago it would give me an idea. You could pm me if you wanted. Doctor obviously said to give up but I'm not prepared to stop beekeeping so quickly especially as I've made some nice friends through it.
I said I would get back to him, the doctor, with any information I was able to find out here.
Many thanks

[gavin]

Hi Bridget

I went through it myself several years ago and our local secretary, Colin, is still finishing off the less frequent part of the 3-year programme. It was weekly for 12 weeks then less frequent for the rest of three years.

My GP knew of the Asthma and Allergy Research Group (now the Scottish Centre for Respiratory Research (http://www.scrr.co.uk/)) and it was that group he first made contact with. Your GP might be better to go directly to the Ear Nose and Throat surgeon who actually does the desensitisation. I think he's separate from the SCRR. He's still doing it so you really ought to be able to get it done there. NHS and free. Ask your GP to write to him - I'll PM his details.

If you do get booked in there let me know and we can blether about bees some time. I live nearby.

cheers

Gavin

[RDMW]

Hello Mr Quentin Gardiner, consultant ENT surgeon at ninewells in Dundee will accept a referral from your GP. Ask for an IgE blood test for total IgE and specific IgE to bee venom before the referral.


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[RDMW]

It is a lengthy process involving weekly visits to Ninewells for many weeks but I understand that it is an effective treatment


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[Calluna4u]

Call Clem....you Inverness based bee inspector.

He had to get it done after a bad reaction while inspecting some bees with me at the height of the EFB outbreak down here. He will KNOW how to get it done from Highland.

The weekly trips are only for the first few visits btw.....you fairly quickly move on to 6 weekly.

[drumgerry]

Just to let you know guys Bridget is the Treasurer of our wee Spey Beekeepers Association. Suffice to say the association wouldn't exist without her so thanks for helping her get back into the beekeeping swing. Her other half Fraser is doing a sterling job with their own bees at the moment but I'm sure she's dying to get back to it herself.

[Bridget]

Hello Mr Quentin Gardiner, consultant ENT surgeon at ninewells in Dundee will accept a referral from your GP. Ask for an IgE blood test for total IgE and specific IgE to bee venom before the referral.


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Thanks for that info - I have had the blood tests etc which I was able to get done on my work insurance but they won't cover the actual treatment. I will let my doctor know tomorrow
Bridget

[RDMW]

Your GP should be able to refer you through the NHS


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[gavin]

Call Clem....you Inverness based bee inspector.


I understand that Clem is off the bees and on another role. If I remember correctly he had to come down to Dundee for his treatment. I'm certain that there were no options in N Scotland a year or two ago. A GP I knew (spouse of a one-time poster) was trying to get desensitisation in Inverness and if he couldn't persuade them, nobody can.

[gavin]

HJB said he was about to start at Gartnavel. ....

HJ is Helena. She's not on here much these days so I'll send you her email in case you need it.

[Calluna4u]

I understand that Clem is off the bees and on another role. If I remember correctly he had to come down to Dundee for his treatment. I'm certain that there were no options in N Scotland a year or two ago. A GP I knew (spouse of a one-time poster) was trying to get desensitisation in Inverness and if he couldn't persuade them, nobody can.

Lol Gavin...we are getting longer in the tooth than we would like to admit........it happened in 2009........a bit more than a year or two ago.

Steve told me at least a couple of years ago that Clem had gone back on to doing bees after a successful outcome to his desensitisation. I think you are right btw, that Highland had to fund his treatment from Tayside. Dundee is a national leader in this work....Mr Gardiner (What parents give a Gardiner a Q for an initial???) was, at least at first, working under the initial direction of Professor Lipworth. Look him up and drop him a line directly? Just did and seems he is still there and allergy is one of his main specialisations.

Moral of that is not to take no for an answer.....there IS a precedent and why should you (OP Brigit) be treated any worse?

[The Drone Ranger]

http://www.insectstings.co.uk/immunotherapy/
Takes a long time Bridget
Is an epipen and antihistamines no good ?

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[Bridget]

Trouble is Drone Ranger I'm apt to run into them when I'm out and about! Had to run for it the day Fraser did the OA and I can't bear to think all the gardening in summer will have to be done in a bee suit. Walking near us late last summer the bees were all over the heather at the side of the path and they weren't just mine!
I wore the doctor down Calluna4U. My ten minute appointment stretched on and on and he eventually saw I wasn't going to give up so said he would get onto it and with this info re Dundee I've given him there's little excuse. Clem did an inspection of my bees about 3-4 yrs ago.


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[Bridget]

That link Drone Ranger is makes very interesting reading including the last sentence.


"A recent paper shows quite clearly that simply carrying an epipen does little if anything to improve the quality of life of an insect sting allergic patient."

It also says that NICE approves the treatment and rates it cost effective. I will also give my doc this link. There won't be much he doesn't know for next time!
Thanks one and all - SBAI to the rescue once again
[emoji106]


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[The Drone Ranger]

Hope you have some luck with him Bridget maybe he will realise if you croak after a bee sting he might be up in front of the GMC

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[RDMW]

That's a good article, thank you. Anaphylaxis is a life threatening condition and is pretty scary to witness and to treat. An epipen is part of the correct treatment but cannot be relied upon and it is best to avoid the allergen if at all possible. If you are really interested have a look at the guidelines https://www.resus.org.uk/anaphylaxis/emergency-treatment-of-anaphylactic-reactions/ although there are lots of good advice pages elsewhere on the web.



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[madasafish]

One of our Assocation beekeepers collapsed at the Association Apiary 2 years ago with anaphylaxis.

She is a gardener by trade so got NHS immunisation treatment FOC.. Now six monthly treatments. Still suited and booted though with bees.

[The Drone Ranger]

I don't know if this is exactly right but I believe it is mostly

Your body releases chemicals to deal with the effects of bee sting
Usually beekeepers are less likely to get large swelling from bee stings caused by the immune system
They are still likely to get local reaction like red itching etc because of the actual chemicals in the sting

Sometimes after donkeys years of shrugging off stings though the body 'pulls a fast one' and they get a severe reaction

Its apparently rooted in the production of either IgG or IgE antibodies
http://wncbees.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Bee-Stings-Immunology-Allergy-and-Treatment-Marterre.pdf

So just when you think you can ignore the bee stings as trivial possibly that's when you are in most danger
Some years ago a chap was telling me how after 30 years of helping with the bees his wife suddenly had a life threatening reaction and was rushed to A&E
She must have had thousands of stings over the years with no major problems till then

The ones you scrape off the back of your hand or wrist generally don't deliver much venom
Once in a while though they hit some sweet spot that results in a swollen wrist or hand
It seems everyone has the potential for their Tcells to order a switch from one antibody to the other then it can be curtains

I think RDMW's link says epipens are for severe reactions blistering etc but not for anaphylaxis which should always be followed up by allergy treatment
I thought it was just if you asked but apparently its supposed to be part of the treatment post severe attack

The most stings I have had at one time was about 30 or so (bungled no suit) and the only side effect was the lingering delusion that I could dance after all :)

[chairman dave]

I have just joined the forum and looked through this thread.

Scotland is a place where many people lose their immunities to infection of all sorts. However, I had never given any thought to bee-keepers becoming ill.

My concern is that the members who do become ill after bee stings may be wrongly advised and incorrectly treated by the NHS or other private medical practitioners.

I would advise Oxygen therapy and it is not too expensive.

[gavin]

Thanks Dave. Do you have any references on the use of oxygen therapy for anaphylaxis to insect stings?

[chairman dave]

No. HBOT is used for a variety of illnesses but is not usually recommended by the NHS. I have used it myself and find it to be effective for sleep apnoea, high blood pressure, chronic fatigue and cardiovascular problems.

[fatshark]

I have just joined the forum and looked through this thread.

Scotland is a place where many people lose their immunities to infection of all sorts. However, I had never given any thought to bee-keepers becoming ill.

My concern is that the members who do become ill after bee stings may be wrongly advised and incorrectly treated by the NHS or other private medical practitioners.

I would advise Oxygen therapy and it is not too expensive.

Anaphylaxis is not a 'lost' immunity ... it is a hypersensitivity, an overly strong immune reaction to the antigen. Desensitisation to antigens is a well-established and (usually) effective solution to what might otherwise be a life-threatening reaction.

Oxygen therapy may well be very effective on the symptoms chairman dave reports, but none of them are immunity-related.

[busybeephilip]

I agree with Fatshark, but you need to remember that desensitizing treatment is not a cure and will save you if you get a sting or two but if you received many stings at once then you would be in trouble

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Phillip
If I'm on the right track it seems its an overreaction by the less common of 2 possible immune responses

I didn't know until I this thread that desensitizing was needed so often
Can anyone tell me though if someone had a severe reaction once would that mean it will always happen ?
Could a less severe sting, say on the hand just have a normal reaction ?

[The Drone Ranger]

I have just joined the forum and looked through this thread.

Scotland is a place where many people lose their immunities to infection of all sorts..

On the plus side though we have loads of referendums and elections and therefore an abundance of free correx
In fact ,although the oft quoted "streets of London are paved with gold" may be a gross exaggeration
I think we can justifiably claim the streets of Edinburgh are truly paved with Correx

Welcome to the forum Dave and thanks for the tip :)

p.s. I have put the dog outside because I think he may well be using up too much of the oxygen in the living room

[chairman dave]

Dogs sleeping on the floors of living rooms and kitchens often suffer a medical manifestation of hypoxia irrespective of altitude. By example, a domestic gas cooker will emit four alien gases each with different atomic weights and they also consume the oxygen dogs need for the protection of their immunity.

[Bridget]

Hi Phillip
If I'm on the right track it seems its an overreaction by the less common of 2 possible immune responses

I didn't know until I this thread that desensitizing was needed so often
Can anyone tell me though if someone had a severe reaction once would that mean it will always happen ?
Could a less severe sting, say on the hand just have a normal reaction ?

I don't know the answer to that but maybe someone who has undergone the full treatment would give us the answer to that. How have they got on with bee stings after treatment.
I had to have a specialist check out that I was indeed allergic to bee stings after my reaction. He took blood and also put 4 little injections of something just under the skin, one of which was bee venom and that was the one that reacted though when he did it I didn't know which was which.

[The Drone Ranger]

I don't know the answer to that but maybe someone who has undergone the full treatment would give us the answer to that. How have they got on with bee stings after treatment.
I had to have a specialist check out that I was indeed allergic to bee stings after my reaction. He took blood and also put 4 little injections of something just under the skin, one of which was bee venom and that was the one that reacted though when he did it I didn't know which was which.

Hi Bridget
I was wondering, because although you couldn't chance being stung on the head or something, usually through rubber gloves its more of a light jab with very little venom involved
Don't test the theory though its too risky
How much venom is in those test is it just a minute amount ?

The dog is very troublesome I think he might have heard me reading Daves post
I found him in the kitchen fiddling with the cooker
He is a short haired Bavarian Biscuit Hound they are very clever

[busybeephilip]

I think that there is some confusion here regarding sting reactions. Many persons, in fact most, will have a local swelling around the area of a sting, if on the tender tissues of the face and neck this can produce some spectacular swellings to the point where eyes close over, in some cases it may affect breathing due to swelling moving into in the throat. These persons do have a bad reaction but this is not anaphalaxis. GP's will immediately say you are allergic, many have little immunological knowledge and will always diagnose sensitivity to protect themselves.

Alaphalaxis will occur when a vulnerable person is stung anywhere on the body, usually the first "immunizing" sting will be OK but this is the one that will induce a unique type of antibody response making that person sensitive to the next sting. It does not even need to be a sting, venom on glove/beesuit can prime a persons immune system by skin absorption/inhalation. Symptoms of anaphalaxis are very clear, you dont need to have massive local swelling, infact there maybe very little swelling at all, the afflicted person will/may experience a rash over the trunk of the body both chest and back, breathing difficulties begin within a few minutes, asthmatics will reach for their inhalers only to find that they do not offer any relief and breathing will become more difficult as the breathing capillaries in the lungs swell and close over. If its the first episode the reactions will not be so severe and slower and strong dose of peritin will give you time to get to a hospital. However, the next sting is the one that will kill you as your body has been primed a second time and all those antibodies are just waiting to work their magic. When this happens, same symptoms but will occur much much faster, its only the epipen/s that will give you enough time with assistance to allow you to get to hospital. Also, you can get a delayed anaphalaxis which is why a hospital admit you for some 24 hours.

Some good news, if you dont get your 2nd sting, over time (years) the effects of a potential 2nd sting do wear off but will never ever go away

How do I know all this - my daughter is a true anaphalactic and of course I get the blame for it.

[The Drone Ranger]

Thanks Phillip
Thats a great explanation
I just bought a better bee suit and I'm glad
Its odd how someone can be stung hundreds of times for years no problem, and then out of nowhere -- curtains

Re the doctors covering themselves
I can usually tell when a posh politician expects a caning
You can see a book shaped bulge down the back of their trousers

[chairman dave]

Thanks Phillip
Thats a great explanation
I just bought a better bee suit and I'm glad
Its odd how someone can be stung hundreds of times for years no problem, and then out of nowhere -- curtains

Re the doctors covering themselves
I can usually tell when a posh politician expects a caning
You can see a book shaped bulge down the back of their trousers

I had three heart attacks in May 2014. On the third admission, I told the NHS doctor that I suspected H.A.P.E so he said; ''Well. Alright then. We'll get an x-ray done''.

Unfortunately for me, the same doctor went off duty so I never did get the appropriate treatment.

[Bridget]

Hi
How much venom is in those test is it just a minute amount ?

The dog is very troublesome I think he might have heard me reading Daves post
I found him in the kitchen fiddling with the cooker
He is a short haired Bavarian Biscuit Hound they are very clever
No idea how much. I expect it probably very diluted.
Luckily for our dog we are not on main
Gas. However he does lie in front of a closed up coal fire. Tbh that thread of the posts left me a bit confused. I love the sound of a Bavarian biscuit hound [emoji190]. Mine is all terrier, a cross of Norfolk and PJR



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[gavin]

Can anyone tell me though if someone had a severe reaction once would that mean it will always happen ?
Could a less severe sting, say on the hand just have a normal reaction ?

The desensitisation treatment is to inject you with venom, very small quantities at first then increasing to about two stings' worth. Your body adjusts during the 12 weeks of that. So that implies that a very brief sting with little venom injected *might* go quite well after your anaphylaxis. However it would be unwise to do that in an uncontrolled way and without a medical practitioner looking over you surrounded by rooms with loads of kit that should bring you back to life if need be. (Don't worry Bridget, almost never happens.)

The injection is deeper than a bee reaches so you feel it less and I can confirm that Mr Gardiner is the most gentle injector I've come across :).


I don't know the answer to that but maybe someone who has undergone the full treatment would give us the answer to that. How have they got on with bee stings after treatment.
I had to have a specialist check out that I was indeed allergic to bee stings after my reaction. He took blood and also put 4 little injections of something just under the skin, one of which was bee venom and that was the one that reacted though when he did it I didn't know which was which.

Stings after treatment? You head on out after the course knowing that your body is OK with about two stings and you face the bees with only a small amount of trepidation. In almost every case you are cured but there is the very unusual case when the individual needs to go through it again. Very very rare but it does happen. One, a family member of someone on here, was going through that very thing at the same time as my desensitisation.

These exceptions really are very rare so don't worry about them. For almost everyone the whole thing is quite pleasant and you come out not having to worry about the issue ever again. I owe them a lot.

[Bridget]

Thanks Gavin. Very reassuring . Just got to prod this doctor again into getting organised.


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[Calluna4u]

One, a family member of someone on here, was going through that very thing at the same time as my desensitisation.


Yes Gavin, and as you also know it only partially worked for him even the second time around....he was in treatment in total for 6 years.

However.....his initial RAST test results were described by Prof Lipworth as 'quite extraordinary' (quite a statement to come from a major national expert) and the course was embarked on more in hope than expectation. After 2 full rounds of the treatment he still scored a 4 on the test. That's a level that will get you onto the course almost without question as it remains dangerous. I was decided at that point that further efforts would not be worthwhile.

His is a special situation, where he even gets a skin rash if honey touches him, so there will be little or no correlation to what anyone on the forum is likely to encounter.

My daughter, who started off as a 4 on the RAST test, was completely successful, and is able to work bees at a commercial level when required to do so and is my probable successor. She has had multiple stings on occasions since then and does not react any worse than I do.

[Neils]

Can anyone tell me though if someone had a severe reaction once would that mean it will always happen ?

Having been learned well by those in the legal profession I do feel that I need to say outright that I am not a Doctor of history, let alone medicine, and this is purely an account of my experience...

I had a very bad reaction to a sting a few years back, in fact I think there's a thread about it on this very forum somewhere. It was bad enough that I had to ask someone to take me to A&E having progressed through "bloke" symptoms (I'm hot, I'm hungover, It was an old bee, It was an African bee, I wanted to sit down, my legs are tired, being sick is natural, this isn't going away) to finally thinking that I should probably do something about it. industrial strength antihistamines and steroids followed and then sent home.

I couldn't get a referral to the allergy people, I could get a pair of thick gloves and an epi-pen. I spent two years being ultra careful and not getting stung and then I eventually got complacent and was naturally stung on the lip right away... Nothing. I've been stung a lot since then and, if anything, my reactions are now close to none existent regardless of where I get stung. Previously I'd swell up like a balloon regardless.

Do I need to re-iterate that bit about not being a Dr again? No? Good.

From my experience, no it doesn't mean it will always happen but while I was looked after in my journey though the NHS the message was consistent: "Oh, you probably know more about this than we do..." and my GP was far happier to prescribe me an Epi-Pen than allow me to get tested to determine whether I was really allergic.

I don't have a ready explanation either other than I was doing an inspection and took a particularly painful sting to the finger.

[The Drone Ranger]

I had three heart attacks in May 2014. On the third admission, I told the NHS doctor that I suspected H.A.P.E so he said; ''Well. Alright then. We'll get an x-ray done''.

Unfortunately for me, the same doctor went off duty so I never did get the appropriate treatment.

Dave it took me a couple of goes to find H.A.P.E it said high altitude pulmonary edema ?

My neighbour didn't get up Machu Picchu on holiday ,I think he is a bit lazy (sorry Frank)
http://www.incatrail-machupicchu.com/peru-travel/altitude-sickness.html

If only he followed the advice "chewing coca leaves"
He could have run up the trail and lost a few pounds at the same time :)

Sorry to hear about the heart problems Dave hope its all under control now
John

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Neils
That's good ifo and very encouraging for some people

"I eventually got complacent and was naturally stung on the lip right away... Nothing. I've been stung a lot since then and, if anything, my reactions are now close to none existent regardless of where I get stung. Previously I'd swell up like a balloon regardless.

Just a tip
If you fancy eating a bit of honeycomb check for bees first

My own reactions are confined to a few cuss words and the occasional bit of Morris dancing if they are in the suit

[madasafish]

I keep bare handed - started that way in 2010 and continued. I count my stings - sad I know - average around 70/year but last year 83. After some mild discomfort in early years, I am now virtually immune to swelling. Was stung on the septum last year - exquisite pain for 30 minutes but no swellings...

Early part of the hurts as immunity wears off over winter :-)

I do use marigolds for nasty colonies.. our Association Apiary bees seem to dislike me...:-(

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi madasafish
I use the thin medical gloves rather than marigolds which are a bit thick
Bees can sting through them but they hardly ever do, and they don't seem to be able to deliver more than a slight jab
In the height of Summer two pairs one under another over saves getting sweaty palms in to a new pair
All propolis and gunk stays on glove and gets taken off before next hive (good for lots of reasons)

Up the nose really hurts and its even worse if you scrape the sting off with a hive tool (as recommended on BBKA) :)

[alancooper]

Yes - thin medical-type blue vinyl gloves. Good for feeling the bees and they hardly ever sting.

[chairman dave]

Dave it took me a couple of goes to find H.A.P.E it said high altitude pulmonary edema ?

My neighbour didn't get up Machu Picchu on holiday ,I think he is a bit lazy (sorry Frank)
http://www.incatrail-machupicchu.com/peru-travel/altitude-sickness.html

If only he followed the advice "chewing coca leaves"
He could have run up the trail and lost a few pounds at the same time :)

Sorry to hear about the heart problems Dave hope its all under control now
John

H.A.P.E is likely to be very common because the NHS do not make any effort to diagnose it. The condition can be triggered inside a pressurised or un-pressurised aircraft of just by a low air pressure system at sea level. There is no need to go up a mountain to become a victim of H.A.P.E or H.A.C.E.

Most people believe that the global obesity epidemic is caused by the consumption of foods and drinks or a lack of exercise but it is actually a medical manifestation of un-treated decompression illness and it affects people in Scotland greatly. The NHS have no idea how to make a correct diagnosis in favour of seriously overweight people.

[The Drone Ranger]

I'm learning quite a lot now
I knew I was getting a bit porky
The doc told me I was getting older and I had to expect these things

Luckily Global warming is raising the sea level
Cant weight (sic) for it to happen
I'm going to be sylph like when my house is at sea level instead of 600m above it :)

[madasafish]

Hi madasafish
I use the thin medical gloves rather than marigolds which are a bit thick
Bees can sting through them but they hardly ever do, and they don't seem to be able to deliver more than a slight jab
In the height of Summer two pairs one under another over saves getting sweaty palms in to a new pair
All propolis and gunk stays on glove and gets taken off before next hive (good for lots of reasons)

Up the nose really hurts and its even worse if you scrape the sting off with a hive tool (as recommended on BBKA) :)
I have a supply of vinyl gloves ## from Eurocarparts... and they appear tougher than the medical ones... which I agree are better from a feel point of view than marigolds.

I reserve marigolds for the really nasty colonies which attack my hands.. and try to climb under my cuffs etc..

## cheap and ideal for painting... or using PU glue..:-)

[GRIZZLY]

I have a supply of vinyl gloves ## from Eurocarparts... and they appear tougher than the medical ones... which I agree are better from a feel point of view than marigolds.

I reserve marigolds for the really nasty colonies which attack my hands.. and try to climb under my cuffs etc..

## cheap and ideal for painting... or using PU glue..:-)

Time to get some better tempered and gentler bees methinks

[madasafish]

Time to get some better tempered and gentler bees methinks

My bees are fine: very laid back. It's our Association bees: approx 75% of my total stings come from them..

[drumgerry]

Speaking of gloves my perennial problem with nitriles was them tearing at the drop of a hat. So much so I've probably persisted with my silly expensive Thornes kid gloves for longer than I should have. This season it's all change. Someone on the BBKA FB page put me on to these

https://www.hygienedepot.co.uk/product/ultratuff-violet-nitrile-milking-glove

I asked for some samples before ordering and the samples arrived next day. Settled on the Large size. I have high hopes. They have long cuffs and seem very sturdy

[madasafish]

Speaking of gloves my perennial problem with nitriles was them tearing at the drop of a hat. So much so I've probably persisted with my silly expensive Thornes kid gloves for longer than I should have. This season it's all change. Someone on the BBKA FB page put me on to these

https://www.hygienedepot.co.uk/product/ultratuff-violet-nitrile-milking-glove

I asked for some samples before ordering and the samples arrived next day. Settled on the Large size. I have high hopes. They have long cuffs and seem very sturdy


Very expensive..

[drumgerry]

Well it worked out at 49p a pair as I bought 3 boxes. Cheaper if you buy 10. I think that's ok to be honest. I won't be changing them between hives just between apiaries. And it's comparable to the kid gloves I have been wearing - the only leather gloves that give any sort of feel when you work a hive in my opinion.

I don't think it's over the odds and I'd suggest anyone interested get a few samples.

[Calluna4u]

justgloves.co.uk Best place I ever found for sourcing disposable/semi disposable and working gloves.

The thin nitrile gloves are somewhere in the region of 3.50 per 100 pairs.

We normally use the long green thicker ones at just under a pound a pair, but even in our setup a pair is good for a week or so. I personally use a dearer one from the same catalogue, green and yellow coloured.

The long gloves go well up under the elasticated wrists of your beesuit/jacket, and nothing more needed.

[drumgerry]

I think the ones I've bought are maybe more in line with your pound a pair gloves C4U - long cuffs and thick. I'm imagining a pair per single apiary inspection but I'll maybe get longer out of them.

[Calluna4u]

I think the ones I've bought are maybe more in line with your pound a pair gloves C4U - long cuffs and thick. I'm imagining a pair per single apiary inspection but I'll maybe get longer out of them.

Thinking about it more closely, it will be the equivalent of 180 to 200 colonies per pair.....each team of two gets through about 400 colonies per week.

We wash them between apiaries...in the bucket of washing soda solution that we clean the hives tools, smoker bellows etc with.