Black Friday Bee Equip Sales

[EK.Bee]

Thornes:

Dear Beekeeper

This year, we have decided to take part in the Black Friday to Cyber Monday bonanza weekend. We will have very special discounts on "big ticket" items: Complete National hive, Complete WBC hive, Warming Cabinet, National Easi-steam, All-in-ones suit, small steam wax extractor, assembled Top Bar Hive, Cold Uncapping Tray, Honey Tipper and 40kg tank, Small Solar Extractor, Assembled Garden Hive, National Snelgrove Board and National Section Rack complete with timber sections.

There will also be a special low rate for carriage free orders.

It starts just after midnight on Friday 27th November and finishes at midnight on Monday 30th.

An ideal opportunity to give your Santa list to family and friends!

A link will be live on the website www.thorne.co.uk


Interesting, I wonder if the other suppliers will also adopt this opportunity for a sale?

[Wmfd]

I think I saw something from Modern Beekeeping the other day, on hives. That was for this weekend too.

Seems odd to have a sale linked to the date of a US holiday (but maybe I am just behind the times, and as my wife insists getting grumpier as I get older ....)

David

[fatshark]

I think they should include the 175g sachet of Api-Bioxal as a "big ticket" item ;)

[GRIZZLY]

I think they should include the 175g sachet of Api-Bioxal as a "big ticket" item ;)

I wouldn't use the stuff as a matter of principle - another "rip-off" by this government. I wonder what Thornes profit margin is on the stuff.

[SDM]

I wouldn't use the stuff as a matter of principle - another "rip-off" by this government. I wonder what Thornes profit margin is on the stuff.

Whatever it is , its nothing compared to the manufacturers margin for mixing oxalic acid and sugar.
It is a disgrace. Another areas inspector was guest speaker at my local association yesterday. He said that inspectors were being told to come down hard on anyone using unlicensed products.

[gavin]

I wouldn't use the stuff as a matter of principle - another "rip-off" by this government. I wonder what Thornes profit margin is on the stuff.

I'm not usually one for defending this government but I reckon that the officials are doing their best to get a system to work that wasn't designed for simple home remedies widely in operation, more for advanced pharmaceuticals for treating sick animals. Doesn't mean they have this right, and as the SBA Bee Health guy I'm asking questions in the right quarters.

It isn't the government that will make money off this scheme but the Italian company Laif. Thorne have switched to this legal product, can't say whether they will make more or less money on sales of oxalic acid.

[prakel]

It is a disgrace. Another areas inspector was guest speaker at my local association yesterday. He said that inspectors were being told to come down hard on anyone using unlicensed products.

I've been thinking about this, and other than forwarding the culprits names for prosecution, I can't see how a bee inspector can 'come down hard' on anyone. Is that what he was saying? A slew of prosecutions for 2016? That'll make the inspector's jobs easier in future years.

[Bridget]

Drumgerry and I have been discussing this. I said I had ordered it and he asked me what strength of solution the new stuff gives -he makes up a 3% solution using crystals . He thinks the Italian protocol with OA uses a stronger solution --6%. Does anyone know the answer to this? The Thornes instructions are to mix 35 grams with 500ml sugar syrup and the usual 5ml per frame. But I'm far to dim to be able work out a % from their info. I don't want to have the same problems as with the MAQS where the dosage on the pkt was for bigger Canadian hives , allegedly.
Actually Grizzly, for the hobby beekeeper with less than 10 hives it's an easy cheap product.


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[Black Comb]

Does this make my varrox an illegal instrument?

[madasafish]

Does this make my varrox an illegal instrument?

If you use an unlicensed treatment, using it will be illegal. But owning it is OK, It is not an illegal instrument.

The entire thing is uneforceable. BIs know large scale enforcement will lead to BeeBase being abandonned. Why register to be persecuted?

[GRIZZLY]

Actually Bridget "cheap" is a relative term. I am changing my winter procedure - see my post on "todays news" where I'm only going to bleach my frame tops !!! I can't be expected to control spillages down the sides of the frames.

[The Drone Ranger]

BeeBase says

"The Veterinary Medicines Regulations sets out legal text on the manufacture, authorisation, marketing, distribution and post-authorisation surveillance of veterinary medicines. Honey bees are classed as a food producing animal and therefore beekeepers must comply with these regulations. Generic substances such as Oxalic acid or self-made thymol solutions should not be used and beekeepers are liable for prosecution if traces are found during routine honey sampling. It is important to note that some products available on beekeeping manufacturers’ websites are not registered medicinal products and although available, should not be administered to a colony."

Ok so far I'm not sure but I would guess sampling might only show you use biomoneybag oxalic or Api life var

So heres the difficult part

When a veterinary medicinal product is bought beekeepers must, at the time, record:

(a) The name of the product and the batch number;

(b) The date of acquisition;

(c) The quantity acquired; and

(d) The name and address of the supplier.

Tea and biscuits with "The Men from the Ministry " (if anyone remembers that old BBC radio series) always brings forth chaos :)

Most years I would really love to have some honey to sample but its a rare commodity and gets munched pretty quickly

[fatshark]

Actually Grizzly, for the hobby beekeeper with less than 10 hives it's an easy cheap product.


It's by far and away the cheapest (least expensive) approved treatment available. Probably only ~20% the cost of any others, and substantially less than MAQS. Worth noting that pretty much all of the treatments, when used as directed, are very similar in their efficacy.

I have conflicting views about the product ... if it was really a new product and we'd not been buying generic OA for 1-2p/gram forever we'd be rejoicing there was an alternative, effective and inexpensive product to use instead of Apiguard, Apistan and MAQS ...

There are some issues with the concentrations/usage recommendations. It states 4.2% on the paperwork, but we generally use 3.2% for dribbling. It additionally states 2.3g for vaporisation whereas there's good evidence that 1.4g is equally effective. So a 35g sachet will probably go further still, and be cheaper still.

But a lot more than £8 for 500g which was what Thorne's used to charge for generic oxalic acid.

[GRIZZLY]

Am I right that O.A. occurs naturally in raw honey ? - if so how would the ministry detect non - Italian O.A. from a normal sample of honey ?

[fatshark]

You're right ... what's more, there's data out there (Danish publication) (http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/spring_treatment_oxalic_acid.htm) to suggest that after trickling or spraying there's no significant difference in the level of OA detectable in treated vs. untreated colonies. levels in the hive were significantly less than in spinach ...

They might not be able to detect the OA but what about the 11% of Api-Bioxal that isn't OA. Perhaps it's a fluorescent radioactive tracer allowing simple verification of whether you used the commercial product?

I should add for clarification that the final sentence was a cynical joke ;)

[The Drone Ranger]

Am I right that O.A. occurs naturally in raw honey ? - if so how would the ministry detect non - Italian O.A. from a normal sample of honey ?

Perhaps just say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6lW1FbSHXA

[The Drone Ranger]

Does this make my varrox an illegal instrument?

No Black Comb Thornes says it can be used in varrox
If it has sugar in that might be a chance to make a toffee apple at the same time :)

[Bridget]

I have conflicting views about the product ... if it was really a new product and we'd not been buying generic OA for 1-2p/gram forever we'd be rejoicing there was an alternative, effective and inexpensive product to use instead of Apiguard, Apistan and MAQS ...

There are some issues with the concentrations/usage recommendations. It states 4.2% on the paperwork, but we generally use 3.2% for dribbling. It additionally states 2.3g for vaporisation whereas there's good evidence that 1.4g is equally effective. So a 35g sachet will probably go further still, and be cheaper still.

Thanks Fatshark for that info. I'll probably let it down a wee bit then.
Those pesky varroa strips coming off today and it blowing a hoolie already. Thank goodness for the bee house. I think I'm going to take on Grizzy's suggestion on another post and get some fondant on while we are about it as there were bees buzzing around yesterday (one even in the bedroom which I had to vacate pretty swiftly being as I'm not allowed near them anymore) and with all this flying about in November they may be getting light. Might as well do it now and not disturb them again.


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[EK.Bee]

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