Hive straps, am I missing something?

[Wmfd]

I seem to go through hive ratchet straps on almost an annual basis, is this normal?

My hives have had them on almost permanently this year due to the wind. The straps simply degrade, presumably because of UV. These are cheap, ratchet straps, and I am wondering if it is a false economy, at our beekeepers meeting someone said theirs last five years!

I'm not sure if I'm using them a lot more, or is there some secret supply of long lasting straps?

David

[nemphlar]

I,ve used 19mm braided black strapping with 20mm black buckles from online are cheap work and after 6 years don't seem to have degraded and they're on all the time

[EK.Bee]

I'm trying out stainless ratchets (for yachts) with military webbing (got both on evilbay), works out at £7 total for a really long strap (would even go round an Ian Craig hive :) ) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25mm-Stainless-Steel-Ratchets-Handles-Lashing-/360789892688?hash=item5400c0de50:g:DMEAAOxyDEVSbt5 z
I got the double stitching done using a denim needle on the sewing machine with rotproff thread (cost me in various household chores & grovelling though)
The webbing from China is cheap but poor quality (no surprise) ,but the UK & US stuff is really heavy duty & shouldn't rot
Seal the ends with flame before sewing & they won't fray

The MK2 version is in two parts & attaches to either side of the hive stand in order to avoid the risk of someone disappearing with it. Also it makes the hive that bit more difficult to steal as you'd need your own strap or have to haul my clyde built stand with the hive

I got fed up fighting with rusty ratchets (didn't want to contaminate everything with oil or grease)
You can buy ready made up Stainless ratchets but they are pricey

[Wmfd]

That's brilliant, thanks both. Looks like this is an area where cheap price has been a false economy for me.

I'm off to look at both options now. The stainless ratchets look good, esp if they are less flimsy.

EK.Bee - how does attaching to the stand work? I just run mine right under the stand cross pieces.

David

[EK.Bee]

That's brilliant, thanks both. Looks like this is an area where cheap price has been a false economy for me.

I'm off to look at both options now. The stainless ratchets look good, esp if they are less flimsy.

EK.Bee - how does attaching to the stand work? I just run mine right under the stand cross pieces.

David

I buy stainless screw in eyes or plates & thread through & stitch up

I'll post a pic tonight

The stainless ratchets are fairly chunky

[Calluna4u]

Go direct to Spanset.

They have the lever type hive straps, and light, medium, and heavy ratchet straps.

The hive straps are under £3.50, the light and medium ratchet straps...which are good quality and don't degrade, at around a fiver, strap length in a choice of sizes. The heavy one are the same as for trucks and generally not needed by beekeepers.

Really good for an association joint purchase.

[prakel]

Spanset: An association purchase would probably be a good idea; when I contacted spanset as an individual about a year ago the price they quoted for a small quantity (40) worked out at more than Thorne's catalogue price when VAT and delivery were added. Made me wonder, too.

One tip, if you go direct you won't actually find the straps listed in their online catalogue (unless that's changed recently) because they class them as a 'special' item. Another tip, Thornes have been adding them to their sale listings for the last couple of years, the most recent sales price was £2 each so it may pay to wait till the start of January if possible.

Personally, for stationary hives I prefer big rocks. Just seems easier somehow.

[mbc]

Personally, for stationary hives I prefer big rocks. Just seems easier somehow.

Me too, but I'm stopped for my first slurp of coffee after being out before first light to check if some of the rocks weren't big enough for that hoole last night. So far had to fetch one pay nes poly roof from the hedge the other side of a field - they don't fit standard nat equipment so the wind can flip them- and two standard roofs balanced on bucket feeders which I wasn't wurprised about. I'm about half way round so not too bad so far. I'm

[prakel]

Me too, but I'm stopped for my first slurp of coffee after being out before first light to check if some of the rocks weren't big enough for that hoole last night.

We've yet to receive our first big blow of the winter -a month late by average dates. Infact the weather pattern over the last couple of months has matched what we had prior to the big storms and floods of winter 13/14...

[madasafish]

I bought mine in Thornes sale two years ago - £2 each . They have been in continuous use since then with no degradation.

I don't like heavy rocks as I make all my roofs from Insulation board.. And I - or rather my back - dislike lifting heavy weights if not very close to my body...

[fatshark]

... check if some of the rocks weren't big enough for that hoole last night ... I'm about half way round so not too bad so far. I'm

I'm? I'm what? ... can someone check that mbc hasn't been wrenched from the keyboard by that mighty wind ... ?

[The Drone Ranger]

I'm? I'm what? ... can someone check that mbc hasn't been wrenched from the keyboard by that mighty wind ... ?
under one of the rocks?

[Jon]

A hive flew past him as he was typing and as he tried to catch it his hand came off the keyboard.

[The Drone Ranger]

If it was Prakel I would have suggested a cliff hanger (ending)

[prakel]

.....a cliff hanger (ending)

lol. Almost been the case on a couple of occasions.

[Wmfd]

Thanks, looks like a few options then including the Thornes sale and Spanset (I've found the lightweight straps in one of their catalogues but It would have to be an association purchase as I'll never use 40!).

I've had a couple of hive stands sink and tilt in the soft fen soil so I hadn't considered extra weights - maybe if I redesign the hive stands ......

[alclosier]

Thornes ones seem good from the sale last year and price was only a few quid.

Re your stands sinking, you need to increase the surface area of the stand leg on the ground thereby reducing the pressure per square cm. I would use a paving slab or something similar and that should help make it more stable.

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[SDM]

For anyone interested in stainless ratchet straps, I'm a mariner by trade and for a good few years have used a firm called a.p. lifting ( helps that my dad was an agent for them for years) I get mine free usually, but if you call them and if possible speak to a brummy called Chris( tell him sandy MacKenzie put you onto him) you'll find the 25mm ratchets plus straps come in around a fiver.

[Wmfd]

Thornes ones seem good from the sale last year and price was only a few quid.

Re your stands sinking, you need to increase the surface area of the stand leg on the ground thereby reducing the pressure per square cm. I would use a paving slab or something similar and that should help make it more stable.

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Thanks, I'll see if Thornes have them in January.

I think I may redesign the stands and go for something a bit more like a pallet. The legged stands do well in the garden, and are a nice height, but have occasionally sunk on the edge of fields.

To date I've been popping hives next to the oil seed rape in spring, but I also wonder if I'm better choosing a particular site and setting it up a bit better. That way I could set up some paving slab bases etc.

(Thanks also SDM, a good option if Thorne doesn't come through)

[Mellifera Crofter]

Avoid the yellow economy straps. I bought a couple and had the same experience as you. They bleached white and snapped in two midway through summer. I tied the ends again, but I don't trust them now.

[madasafish]

Thanks, looks like a few options then including the Thornes sale and Spanset (I've found the lightweight straps in one of their catalogues but It would have to be an association purchase as I'll never use 40!).

I've had a couple of hive stands sink and tilt in the soft fen soil so I hadn't considered extra weights - maybe if I redesign the hive stands ......

Slates are good.

[The Drone Ranger]

Lidl or Aldi get them in a few times a year in packs of 4 or 5
Wmfd if you cut a ply sheet into 4" squares and put them under the legs of your hive stand they won't sink in

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[Wmfd]

Thanks, are the Lidl and Aldi ones better than the cheap Chinese versions? It's hard to tell what is going to last.

Surface area seems to be the thing - I'll look through the scrap wood pile and also a pile of tiles I have behind the garage. Either route should also make the stands last longer.

[prakel]

Another alternative (if, for the time being, it's only a handful of hives) would be to look at the various metal hive clips which permanently fasten to the boxes. There are various types such as the old lock-slides -which I'm sure could be sourced with a little effort far cheaper than Thorne's do them. Then there are the various wire spring type versions.

It might also require a method of securing the floor to the stand and also the use of a reasonably deep roof (but nothing as deep as the nine inch ones which came to us from a certain Wiltshire bee farmer when he was considering downsizing in his early eighties!).

No useful experience of any of them but I'm sure that they'd do the same job well enough.

[mbc]

I'm? I'm what? ... can someone check that mbc hasn't been wrenched from the keyboard by that mighty wind ... ?

Ah sorry. I was tapping at my phone with fat fingers while balancing a cup of hot coffee. I'm pleased to report I got round over two dozen sites with no further mishaps. I slept much better that night than the previous one.

A good option for nuc straps are mann lake's ones at about 50p a pop, I've got one for most of my paynes nucs now.

http://www.mannlake.co.uk/beekeeping-supplies/product/NB-400.html

[The Drone Ranger]

Thanks, are the Lidl and Aldi ones better than the cheap Chinese versions? It's hard to tell what is going to last.


They are usually £9.99 for 4 very long strong ratchet straps
I got stuck with the tractor in mud and used a ratchet strap on each rear wheel to secure a plank to them and drove out ok

[gavin]

The only ones I've had trouble with were the cheapo yellow light Thornes ones (rotted in the sunshine) and a B&Q one with black-painted ratchet (it rusted solid in about 2 years). All the orange strapped ones have been fine, and some were cheap-ish Chinese types. Some bought in Lidl for £2.50 a couple of years ago were fine.

Great suggestion for cheap Paynes nuc (and MiniPlus) straps, thanks mbc.

[madasafish]

I have also bought Aldi ones - 4 for £9.99. Still in use after two years in sun - no degradation seen.. (but not much sun in 2015 here!)

[SDM]

Thanks, are the Lidl and Aldi ones better than the cheap Chinese versions? It's hard to tell what is going to last.

Surface area seems to be the thing - I'll look through the scrap wood pile and also a pile of tiles I have behind the garage. Either route should also make the stands last longer.

I wrapped the feet of my stands in roof flashing. It won't stop them sinking but it'll stop them rotting from the foot up. Dip in bitcbumen and wrap.

[madasafish]

I wrapped the feet of my stands in roof flashing. It won't stop them sinking but it'll stop them rotting from the foot up. Dip in bitcbumen and wrap.

I place my newly built stand legs in small plastic bowls and add Creosote substitute and old oil. Leave to soak for a week.
Then remove bowl and leave to stand on old newspaper for two weeks..so the surplus drains away.

[EK.Bee]

I place my newly built stand legs in small plastic bowls and add Creosote substitute and old oil. Leave to soak for a week.
Then remove bowl and leave to stand on old newspaper for two weeks..so the surplus drains away.

I'll try that, I've been sealing mine with silicone but it's expensive, your treatment probably lasts longer (sounds like a job for gloves I wouldn't want it on my skin too often:) )

[madasafish]

I'll try that, I've been sealing mine with silicone but it's expensive, your treatment probably lasts longer (sounds like a job for gloves I wouldn't want it on my skin too often:) )

Err the reason why I leave it for two weeks is that the mix kills grass and worms and insects..( although I've never seen any dead bees as a result.)

[SDM]

Err the reason why I leave it for two weeks is that the mix kills grass and worms and insects..( although I've never seen any dead bees as a result.)

I was just about to say, " I bet that keeps the grass down around the hive"
Old engine oil is a great preservative though, I use it on fence posts before sinking them.

[prakel]

I can still remember a few of the (very) old-boys soaking floors and broods in engine oil. Probably still a popular method in some parts of the world.

[madasafish]

I can still remember a few of the (very) old-boys soaking floors and broods in engine oil. Probably still a popular method in some parts of the world.

I am not exactly a spring chicken....

[The Drone Ranger]

In Which some years ago they tested preservative for sheds
Old engine oil came out on top

[madasafish]

In Which some years ago they tested preservative for sheds
Old engine oil came out on top

I treat fenceposts with it..

[The Drone Ranger]

I followed mbc's tip and ordered the Mann Lake catalog gosh those Langstroth hives are a good price I might have to think about buying some :)
Theres lots of good Winter reading in there

[prakel]

I followed mbc's tip and ordered the Mann Lake catalog gosh those Langstroth hives are a good price I might have to think about buying some :)

I'm looking after a few till the spring for a friend who lost his site at the end of the summer. Perfectly good, serviceable boxes for the money (despite what some other people who've never even held one have told me:) ).

[madasafish]

I followed mbc's tip and ordered the Mann Lake catalog gosh those Langstroth hives are a good price I might have to think about buying some :)
Theres lots of good Winter reading in there

They have 11% off on Black Friday - and maybe Sat as well.

I'v bought some of their standard brood boxes and supers (langs) and for £8 each the quality is excellent and far better than my DIY (and safer! as two thirds of an index finger attests)

[busybeephilip]

They have 11% off on Black Friday - and maybe Sat as well.

I'v bought some of their standard brood boxes and supers (langs) and for £8 each the quality is excellent and far better than my DIY (and safer! as two thirds of an index finger attests)

And they do National stuff too

[The Drone Ranger]

Thanks for the info madasafish I wonder if Mrs DR would notice me ordering a few under the cover of Christmas shopping :)

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[Calluna4u]

Thanks for the info madasafish I wonder if Mrs DR would notice me ordering a few under the cover of Christmas shopping :)

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Have 1000 Mann Lake Langstroth broods from about 5 years back in service here, many hardly used. If you want to see the quality they are not far away for you to look in and see.
Would say that I bought the commercial grade and had very few rejects......would not recommend the budget grade.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi C4U
Thanks for that info I will take your advice
Why are there many of yours hardly used is it the frame size issues ?

A good few years back I bought 10 or so Thorn's 2nd quality cedar ones in their sale (Tayport at the time)
They had a lot of knots and were a bit more of a pain to put together (the Smith top edge can split if its tight)
They are all still in use though and turned out to be a good buy

[Calluna4u]

Why are there many of yours hardly used is it the frame size issues ?


Just the sheer number we bought (partly to make the shallow boxes largely redundant)....just as the EFB outbreak and run of poor seasons bit. All have had a couple of runs through now, but our Langstroth wooden unit is only in the vicinity of 500 hives, and it was calculated to takes us up to >3 deeps per hive. Since 2009/10 we have had a run of poor seasons, only one decent one in the series since then, and had to cope with the very heavy losses of three years ago, so have been doing a lot of firefighting and rebuilding in that unit. Pretty well back on track now so hope to use most of them next season (beekeepers eternal optimism).

Smith hives outproduce wooden Langs in this area, and I understand very well about the frail top edges of the fronts and backs. The beekeeper who is also the woodworker here spends part of his winter repairing them.