Burning questions need HELP please

[gwizzie]

Hi me again,

I have a few questions that I would like to get some answers to If you can please help. I know that not everyone will answer the same?

1) Hive has angry bees you re-queen it, are the young that are still to hatch out going to be angry like the rest ??? as been re-queened but still have a few bees bouncing of my vail all the time.:mad:

2) Am I better to (if I get any) sell cut comb or jar my honey.

3) What is required to be on the label.

4) can anyone poss tell what kind of bee from a picture be it Amm, carnolia ect etc ??
I have these bees and they are totally different from the local bees that I have acquired (I bought these as 5 frame nuc)
2405

Thanks in advance;)

[Jon]

1. you should see an immediate improvement with a new queen, perhaps a further improvement once all the older bees have died off. When I requeen I usually see an immediate improvement.
2. cut comb sells for double the price.
3. the bbka site has all the label requirements as far as I know
4. those look like Buckfast.

[Adam]

1) The temper of a colony can improve within a week or so if you put in a new queen - this is the pheromone bit. However it can take a couple of months if the genetics of the existing bees are a bit suspect and they have to die-off.

2) I don't seem to have much demand for cut-comb honey so I don't bother with it. Ideally you need to use thin unwired foundation or go foundationless for cut comb.

3) The honey labelling regulations are fairly clear - there are things to get wrong and Trading Standards do spot checks on shops and outlets so be carefuul if you sell that way.

4) There's Ligustica (Italian) in there I suspect, but there are also some less orange bees (lower RHS) indicating a genetic mix. What did the vendor say? And if he popped a queen into a colony from another queen fairly recently you could have bees from a different queen than you have now.

Edit: posts crossed - Buckfasts have Italian in them...

[Jimbo]

There are a number of reasons for angry bees. Usually bees tend to be a bit more protective at this time of year. The weather can be a factor. How you handle the bees i.e too much smoke, not giving time for the smoke to work, if you rough handle the frames. The hive could be queenless. A good check I use to see if a hive has aggressive bees is after you take off the crown board let the bees settle then run your gloved hand a few inches above and across the frames. Aggressive bees will attack your hand. Requeening an aggressive hive usually solves the problem.
Cut comb is easier as long as you don't have wired foundation, get a better price and if you only have a few hives don't need to buy an extractor
There is specific labelling regulations so check that your labels comply
They don't look like Amm as they are too yellow so Buckfast or Italian


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[SDM]

I've had several swarms I took this year turn from real barstewards to big softies after treating for Varroa.

[gwizzie]

Thank you to everyone that has answered so far :D


What did the vendor say?

Not a lot they have speant 14 years developng them to get them like the way they are, they also told me that there is carnolian in there.... I have seen Italian bees and mine are not as yellow as the Italian ones I seen (and they were lasy) these ones are first out of the hive and last in..

NOW that opens a totaly new question ? if they are buckfast is there not a danger that they will be come VERY agressive if I breed with the locals ? as I have heard that buckfast are renound for being that way.

[Jon]

Any form of hybridisation is playing Russian roulette with regard to the temper of the crosses. You might get away with calm offspring but they could be terrible.

[gwizzie]

Any form of hybridisation is playing Russian roulette with regard to the temper of the crosses. You might get away with calm offspring but they could be terrible.

THANKS JON :D I suppose time will tell????

[Mellifera Crofter]

There are a number of reasons for angry bees. ...

Yes, and they can inexplicably change temperament from one visit to the next. Every time I've decided to requeen a colony, I've changed my mind again because they became calm, sweet bees (and I wasn't rough with them or jolted them when they were angry).
Kitta

[gwizzie]

Yes, and they can inexplicably change temperament from one visit to the next. Every time I've decided to requeen a colony, I've changed my mind again because they became calm, sweet bees (and I wasn't rough with them or jolted them when they were angry).
Kitta

Hey Kitta, I suppose it a woman's prerogative (well thats what my wife says to me) LOL

[Calluna4u]

Not going to get 'into it' regarding the hybridisation/temperament stuff, but over many thousands of crossings my experience does NOT back up the aggression theory.

However.....even in Italy what they see as ligustica bees even have some sub families in most hives that show no yellow. The bees LOOK exactly like the bees that came in this year as packages. They were Italian or Italian Buckfast. PM me with the source and I might be able to shed more definitive light on it. They are a tad yellower than the Piemonte Buckfasts.

Cut comb does indeed fetch double the price........but that fails to take into account some pretty significant downsides to producing it. We cut in excess of 20,000 pieces last year (I would be on strange drugs if I thought we would get that this year) and do have it all costed out. The profitability is not greatly different from extracted honey at half the price...IF labour is costed in. Biggies are 1. reduced production 2. Annual frame clean and rewax 3. High labour costs (its slow to do properly) 4. Limited market and shelf life (only ling and borage excepted if very pure).

Item 1. was a subject of research we did quite some years ago now, and shallow frames of thin foundation at the heather had a yield of only about c40% of the optimum, which was deep frames of drawn comb, and only c60% of that on shallow frames of drawn comb. Starter strips were far worse than that and sections were the worst of all. I have put up the figures before on various forums but I do not think I have done on here.

I only really do the comb under pressure from our main client. Probably not a thing I would prefer to do. Even at double the rate. That is not reflected in extra profit. However...it IS a lovely gourmet product when correctly done, and if pride in what you produce is a big factor for you then there is nothing better.

[nemphlar]

I replaced a queen today with lots of banding in the off spring, they were terrors, for whatever reason the heavily banded crosses in Clyde valley area have always been aggressive? Although I've had to cull all sorts over the years

[gwizzie]

Not going to get 'into it' regarding the hybridisation/temperament stuff, but over many thousands of crossings my experience does NOT back up the aggression theory.

However.....even in Italy what they see as ligustica bees even have some sub families in most hives that show no yellow. The bees LOOK exactly like the bees that came in this year as packages. They were Italian or Italian Buckfast. PM me with the source and I might be able to shed more definitive light on it. They are a tad yellower than the Piemonte Buckfasts.

Cut comb does indeed fetch double the price........but that fails to take into account some pretty significant downsides to producing it. We cut in excess of 20,000 pieces last year (I would be on strange drugs if I thought we would get that this year) and do have it all costed out. The profitability is not greatly different from extracted honey at half the price...IF labour is costed in. Biggies are 1. reduced production 2. Annual frame clean and rewax 3. High labour costs (its slow to do properly) 4. Limited market and shelf life (only ling and borage excepted if very pure).

Item 1. was a subject of research we did quite some years ago now, and shallow frames of thin foundation at the heather had a yield of only about c40% of the optimum, which was deep frames of drawn comb, and only c60% of that on shallow frames of drawn comb. Starter strips were far worse than that and sections were the worst of all. I have put up the figures before on various forums but I do not think I have done on here.

I only really do the comb under pressure from our main client. Probably not a thing I would prefer to do. Even at double the rate. That is not reflected in extra profit. However...it IS a lovely gourmet product when correctly done, and if pride in what you produce is a big factor for you then there is nothing better.

Hi C4U, thanks for the replay and comments. I have sent you a PM ;) await reply