View Full Version : What's the longest time after grafting you've waited for a queen to emerge ?
I checked in on my mating nucs today, just in time to see 2 of the queens just poking their heads out 17 days after grafting.
12 days is normal but a couple of days after that is not out of the question. 5 days late would usually mean the cells have been at too low a temperature and the wings of the virgin are likely to be deformed. The other possibility is that the workers held the queens in the cell for a day or two. They often do that when there are multiple cells in a colony.
It'll be next weekend before I find out which it is, since they're up at the heather now and I didn't want to hang about to watch them come out. A shame though since the forecast is great for the next week to 10 days, mostly sunny and 5-10 its of wind.
No problems with wing deformation (that I can see). I lost one to starvation, but the rest came home yesterday with mating sign still attached when I looked in yesterday evening.
How long does it stay attached ?
How long does it stay attached ?
Not long. The workers remove it almost immediately. I also saw one returning to an apidea with the mating sign yesterday. I had the apidea at a table to check it and had just filled in the record card to record Q- and when I set it back on its stand she flew straight in. Funny thing is the workers had a bit of a go at her and she left and returned 3 times in the next few minutes with the mating sign visible. I have only seen a queen showing the mating sign 2 or 3 times I think. You just have to be in the right place at the right time.
I think this is the origin of mated queens with a gammy leg. Manley said that a just mated queen can take a sting on a leg joint on returning from the mating flight. I have seen at least half a dozen queens with one leg trailing this summer and it is the same most years.
busybeephilip
09-09-2015, 02:17 PM
trailing legs might be due to the queen being poorly accepted into the mating nuc, ie a result of semi balling which I have obsevered through glass in my one frame nucs.
gavin
09-09-2015, 02:28 PM
trailing legs might be due to the queen being poorly accepted into the mating nuc, ie a result of semi balling which I have obsevered through glass in my one frame nucs.
I've seen a few laying queens in mini nucs getting balled this year. I'm blaming the strain of bee used to populate most of the nucs :).
Rather than the mating sign some time after mating is over, could well be the 'egg-laying sign'?! Mine sometimes march about with one still attached, presumably desperate to get shot of it but unable to find a polished cell for it.
Yes, it's balling which causes the damage. I have rescued queens from being balled loads of times but they very often have some defect which you notice later on, usually a dodgy leg. Apparently this is from taking a sting in a leg joint.
busybeephilip
09-09-2015, 02:53 PM
They say that bees balling a queen do not actually sting her. This is likely to be true as rescued queens from a tight ball do remain alive. Ball ing is more of a tight clustering and biting action rather than stinging IMO
gavin
09-09-2015, 02:59 PM
I once had a picture (it might be on the forum somewhere) of a queen with the head (and just the head) of another bee firmly attached to its leg.
busybeephilip
09-09-2015, 03:06 PM
I suppose as well as clustering and biting a bit of pulling occurs as well. You will see worker abdomens turned as if they are stinging but if you look closely they are not doing this as some workers can be on the outside of the ball and apparently giving the illusion that they are stinging the workers within the ball if you get my drift.
Yes, it's balling which causes the damage. I have rescued queens from being balled loads of times but they very often have some defect which you notice later on, usually a dodgy leg. Apparently this is from taking a sting in a leg joint.
I saw this today, I opened a nuc with a top feeder on it to see the queen being chased around the feeder by a wasp. I lifted the cover and let the wasp out and the queen went back down into the nuc. When I opened up the nuc about an hour later, she was getting balled. Could she have been saved after a wasp sting ?
Sometimes workers ball a queen to protect her. It is not always an aggressive act.
I have had queens which get balled every time the colony is opened.
I'd not seen it before with this colony and she was definitely in a scrap with a big wasp earlier.
it might be worth mentioning that this was the nuc that was down to a frame of bees after the robbing. They've had 2 frames of brood donated since then and seemed to have bounced back(moving them to a new apiary with just one other nuc helped on the competition front)
Anyway I decided to go back and check just now and I could hear the commotion outside , inside she was still getting balled. When I freed her of workers she flew( into the dark) but came back a few mins later. She seems fine, but I've caged her for the moment back in the nuc and I guess I'll leave her there for 24-48hrs then see how it goes. Despite the woes, she had been doing really well and as a swarm queen I'd hate not to keep her lineage ( but can't let them requeen at this stage of the season). At least I'm going to have some spare queens by the looks of things, so I won't loose the colony.
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