Snelgrove

[nemphlar]

Spent a sunny Sunday afternoon putting 8 snellgrove boards together and listening to the bees on the surviving crocuses, lovely. Any users out there able to advise on centre mesh type, varroa floor type or fine mesh cloth or other

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Nemphlar
I had a bit of a theory about using a finer mesh because it stops the varroa migrating through the mesh
Moving from the sealed larvae in the top box down to where the queen is laying in the bottom box
But it depends really I suppose on how many phoretic mites there are when the split is made
Anyway I bought the mesh cut into 6"squares from JT wirecloth but they seem to have gone now
The black coated stuff from Thornes won't make a mite barrier but it cuts with scissors and that's a help

[gavin]

Taking my cue from some of the inventive ideas expressed in small hive beetle traps (and I'm only partly kidding) what about a posh DR-Snelgrove board. Two layers of mesh, one coarse, one fine to stop the mites going further. Even better the mites travel to the edge of the fine screen to meet their end in a bath of oil cunningly concealed around the margin of the screen. I can see the Crowdfunding page now .....

[nemphlar]

Thanks chaps, I think I'm convinced a varroa exclusion mesh is good idea for all reasons you suggest DR. The idea of a fine under mesh and top varroa sounds interesting I'll try that, a smear of petroleum jelly round the lip of the board should stop any return.
As for the mesh I had the opportunity years ago to salvage a pile of stainless cloth type mesh from a skip at last I have a use for it

[The Drone Ranger]

Jus a pic of some snelgrove boards waiting for the warmer weather
2213

[nemphlar]

Mine are more at the economy level2215

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Nemphlat
Have you dyed them green along the edge ?

When the last door switch is done the new queen will use that for mating flights
I just pin a lid from a margerine tub under the door to give her a better target to look for :)

[nemphlar]

No DR, I always seal the outside of the plywood on the crown boards, I used to use thinned varnish when I had mostly cedar, this is white undercoat and green gloss.
Thanks for the tip on marking the virgins return door, I intend trying all 8 boards this year so I will need any tips you have I bought snellgrove swarming book this year and am working my way through it. I lost a few swarms last year partly lack of time at the right moments, the boards would give me some flexibility

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi nemphlar
Good idea I should be sealing the edges thats why they warp

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27592
A while back I posted in the beekeeping forum thread
There are some tips in there
You will know all the stuff but it might be worth reading
I made up some record cards with door timings but the file isn't on this computer so will post later

[nemphlar]

Quality stuff DR that's getting printed and placed in snelgroves book, the years I've been messing about with bees I've never tried a snelgroves board, I'll be gutted after all this time if this proves to be what I should've been doing 20 years ago

[nemphlar]

Mixed bag with achieving mated queens across the board, plenty of bees though, this one has a cell in the top box which is still pretty full and had to add another brood box to the bottom as it's now full of brood and the 2 supers are full, stand is creaking
2316

[The Drone Ranger]

I made it hard for myself some of them were behind and those I held off till mid May
Problem half the upper box queens not laying when Oil seed rape ended
The bottom box then starts queen cells so I have to lift down a heavy top box and supers to do inspections
I cant rearrange the hive till they are laying in case there are still mating flights to be done
Lesson learned I knew I had a reason for getting them on at the start of May but old age fogs the brain :)

[nemphlar]

Same story with my first attempt, on the up side the spare cells from the snelgrove hives I used in the nucs and apideas, some of these are laying quite good patterns. Against the odds I've had 3 of them accepted in the bottom box with eggs and larvae in the top snelgrove style to try for another few cells

[The Drone Ranger]

On the plus side plenty new wax drawn and filled supers
The folk I know that do artificial swarms have been complaining about virgin queens taking off with swarms this year

[nemphlar]

I,m not complaining, lost VQ's are not a snelgrove issue, the loses have all been in the valley bottom where the swifts and swallows are thick in the air. The only successful queens have been from the higher ground in the back garden. If I can convince them to accept the new queens there's still lots of bees around.
Note to self, double skin mesh on the boards seems to keep them too far apart and fighting kicks off when they are re-united

[fatshark]

Note to self, double skin mesh on the boards seems to keep them too far apart and fighting kicks off when they are re-united

That's a useful piece of info, thanks nemphlar. I've just built a couple of 'split boards' and only put a single piece of mesh in and wondered if it would be enough.

[nemphlar]

My first year using snelgrove boards, thanks to DR for advice along the way. A few bumps on the road but have come out the end with only 1 swarm down and a virgin swarm captured. While the system didn't always work in the classic way with the top box providing a mated queen it did provide lots of cells to drop into apideas and nucs. Boxes brimming with bees and new frames drawn to mess around with,good system for the amateur.

[The Drone Ranger]

My first year using snelgrove boards, thanks to DR for advice along the way. A few bumps on the road but have come out the end with only 1 swarm down and a virgin swarm captured. While the system didn't always work in the classic way with the top box providing a mated queen it did provide lots of cells to drop into apideas and nucs. Boxes brimming with bees and new frames drawn to mess around with,good system for the amateur.
It has been a tricky season but next year it will be brilliant
That's what I tell myself anyway 🍻

[fatshark]

Thought I'd resurrect this one as I may go back into the shed for a little DIY-therapy this weekend ...

Comments above on mesh size and double or single screened boards. The split boards I used last year had a single mesh screen but I used newspaper to unite, so no issues. I'm now going to assemble a Snelgrove board or two for this season. My questions are:

1. Any advantages from a large rather than small opening in the board? Warmth, better at keeping the colony odour together? Any disadvantages? Less chance of drawing QC's above?
2. Any updated views on single or double screened? I probably will still unite with newspaper - call me old-fashioned - as I reckon it's as much trouble to unpin the mesh ...

I've sourced some super-fine Varroa impervious mesh from eBay ... even using 6" square mesh I reckon it works out at about £1/board posted.

PS ... thanks in advance DR ... you seem to be the resident Snelgrove board expert.

[gwizzie]

Jus a pic of some snelgrove boards waiting for the warmer weather
2213

Where is the picture ???

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Fatshark
Being one of only a few people using snelgroves doesn't make me an expert sadly

Single mesh is good enough I think
The stuff I have is a fine woven stainless mesh and in 10mm there are 8 wires
The wires are fine but they still take about 1/10th mm each so the squeeze space is less than 1mm
I went for 5" square and cut the hole to leave stapling or pinning room

I don't think a larger area of mesh would stop queen cells being made
They communicate through the mesh and so when you redirect bees to the bottom there are no issues
Likewise if you lift the top box down there is no fighting etc
Somebody mentioned that using a solid board vertical split there were problems with that

Timing is always tricky
2015 I went late and the oil seed rape disappeared before mating was done in the top
I think Nemphlar was going away so he went early and had a different set of problems
On balance I think late is worse
You want to get them on before any queen cells have been started
If there is rape about you want to time it so the new queen will have hatched in the top and mated before rape ends (the bottom probably will start cells)
Weather and the predicted flowering of rape aside you need to be 4 weeks ahead of your likely first swarm (boards on probably end of April ?)
It helps if you bees are fairly predictable :)

[fatshark]

... You want to get them on before any queen cells have been started ...
It helps if you bees are fairly predictable :)

I'm presuming you're talking here about swim prevention rather than control ... I've been doing my homework and realise they might be also a more flexible way of doing a vertical split and raising a new Q in the top box. My current split boards have a single entrance, so I have to turn bits of the hive round to redirect the foragers. My bees are wonderfully predictable. They almost do what I least expect.

My mesh is finer than that I think. I looks like to sort of stuff they use to make "splatter covers" for frying pans. I'm sure that's the wrong name. It's also stainless steel, so impervious to everything.

It's also got a very sharp edge as the scabs on my knuckles testify ... *

* stop laughing at the back, no references to primitive man thank you.

[The Drone Ranger]

Sounds like the same mesh fatshark
They are pretty flexible for queen rearing you can harvest cells or take them all down and put in a frame from another hive etc
The finer the wire in the wirecloth is the less damage you can do to yourself
I used JTwirecloth who cut them all to size for me but I don't know if they are still around
I better find out before I run out of them
Some info on this page on mesh and wire size
www.meshdirect.co.uk/wire-mehttp://www.meshdirect.co.uk/wire-mesh-wire-netting/woven-mesh-stainless-steel/?gclid=CJylvtKY8soCFS8z0wodadkM-Qsh-wire-netting/woven-mesh-stainless-steel/?gclid=CJylvtKY8soCFS8z0wodadkM-Q

Re the Swim prevention I take it you mean keeping them out of the pool
http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=5435
:)




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[nemphlar]

I got some 22 gauge, 22 strands/inch out of a job heading for the skip which worked well last year varroa clear and single layer with no fighting. I don't have osr so spring is mainly sycamore, I would say you can't be too early as long as there are drones and they don't starve, looking forward to trying the system again
I should have added that I had initially tried a double mesh arrangement using floor type mesh above and fine below, this led to fighting and I removed the courser top mesh

[The Drone Ranger]

I got some 22 gauge, 22 strands/inch out of a job heading for the skip which worked well last year varroa clear and single layer with no fighting. I don't have osr so spring is mainly sycamore, I would say you can't be too early as long as there are drones and they don't starve, looking forward to trying the system again
I should have added that I had initially tried a double mesh arrangement using floor type mesh above and fine below, this led to fighting and I removed the courser top mesh

Hi nemphlar
The book is great but as you point out you need to think about your local conditions
Those old boys seemed to get all year round forage on their doorstep and big colonies with huge yields
I'm looking forward to this season as well :)

[fatshark]

Can someone in the Fife/Angus area recommend a good wood merchant?

Ideally someone who will cut ply sheet accurately to size and who sells planed softwood in the sorts of sizes beekeepers need without costing the earth. I'm not enthusiastic to pay 50p/cut when I'm already spending £25 for an 8'x4' sheet ..

Before moving north I used to buy yards of 21 x 9mm planed redwood for about £1.50 for 2.4m I think ... the same stuff from the big-name suppliers is a daft price, and the stuff I looked at recently is horribly warped.

Thanks

[nemphlar]

FS that was some deal, I've always found the prices for those common bee types sizes prohibitive. I bought a table saw from Aldi's and can now rip enough 20*10mm soft pine for my needs, off saw is good enough for most uses. Best £59 I've spent in ages. Face mask is essential
With a wee bit of help from my assistant 8*4 plywood sheets are cut to size PDQ

[The Drone Ranger]

Heres Snelgrove user writing a good article about their experiences with them (including when the hive is brood and a half at the start)
http://www.biodlarna.se/website1/1.0.1.0/1104/The%20many%20uses%20of%20a%20snelgrove%20board.pdf
Well worth a read if you have 10mins or so to spare

[nemphlar]

Thanks DR interesting view on the system. Just painted another 10 new poly brood boxes. Enough kit now to do all of mine this year

[The Drone Ranger]

Thanks DR interesting view on the system. Just painted another 10 new poly brood boxes. Enough kit now to do all of mine this year

So organised
Did you notice the writer was saying that getting to two or more broodboxes before the split isn't necessary
Which is something we have both found as well
Fatshark seems to have some (secret) queen raising over the Snelgrove plan in mind :)

[nemphlar]

I got a replacement Nicot kit from Simon last year, so I'll be giving that a shot in the top box
Oh yes and made up a load 3 frame spacers

[fatshark]

Hardly secret DR ... nothing much more than what Wally Shaw describes in that link you provided earlier. I currently sometimes use a split board with a single entrance, but have to reverse it to bleed more bees off. Using a Snelgrove board will give me a little more flexibility. I'm just dabbling really, but also want to try 'improving' the stock by providing larvae of my choice, rather than letting them use their own.

My experience with teaching queen rearing was that the grafting/cell raiser/mini nuc route (which is pretty much the way I've always done it) was all a bit too hardcore for beekeepers who sometimes struggle to find the queen ... it's fine if you want a dozen, but is a right palaver for just two. A simple split board works very nicely, but I reckon I can still learn a lot more by having a go with a Snelgrove board.

As an aside, and with the same goals, I've also (badly) built and used a Horsley board but didn't get on with it too well.

[The Drone Ranger]

Lol!
I have a horsley board I bought from Stamfordham some years back but I haven't used it either ( Yet ) :)
I even bought some stuff to make a few but made more Snelgroves instead
I wasn't sure if the author was Wally Shaw because of the initials


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[nemphlar]

What difference a year makes, complete opposite of last year. came back from holiday to find 1 out of 4 apideas with a laying queen, top boxes of Snelgrove units have 4 out of the 5 checked so far with laying queens and sealed brood, 3 more to check. They must have gotten down to business pretty quickly.
Just need to sort them out before they move to the next level.


,

[nemphlar]

Lost a swarm to one of the smaller colonies, put a Snelgrove board on what I thought was the smallest of the possibilities,mated queen laying in the top ,but the bottom swarmed, caught an un mated virgin which I brought home in a nuc. Working well in the main.

[The Drone Ranger]

Lost a swarm to one of the smaller colonies, put a Snelgrove board on what I thought was the smallest of the possibilities,mated queen laying in the top ,but the bottom swarmed, caught an un mated virgin which I brought home in a nuc. Working well in the main.
Yes the weather stepped in stopping me getting the old queens out of the bottom while it drizzled for a week
Then today the weather switches and it's all hands to the pumps getting round them
While making up 12 mininucs
Grafting, inspecting and hiving two swarms
Bleeding knackered but a bit closer to being back on course
Might even get some honey off if the weather holds :)

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