Pollen patties: when?

[Derek Uchman]

I want to get my colonies up-and-running as soon as poss this year. Are pollen patties a good idea? if so, when should I put them on?

[Mellifera Crofter]

I gave pollen patties to my colonies early last year (from about March). I don't know whether it's generally a good idea - but I thought it might help my bees because of where I live - a very exposed hill where the forage - even the gorse - is later than anywhere else, and we're surrounded by an agricultural desert. In contrast with my bees, I know somebody in Aberdeen whose bees were thriving by then, in a sheltered apiary with lots of willow and butterburs to forage on. He obviously doesn't need pollen patties.

[Adam]

I have made pollen substitute - I have no idea whether it did any good - there was no appreciable difference between the fed and unfed.
There are back page ads for pollen patties now - something from the US I suppose. I'm not convinced that they are needed apart from occasionally. I wonder if they (the suppliers) are trying to encourage use whether they are needed or not - so beekeepers THINK they should use them and sales are driven up as a result??

[Bridget]

I gave mine pollen patties last year in about late March april. They loved it so even if it makes no difference look on it as a little treat after winter!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[madasafish]

Pollen patties cost money. I may be exiled but my Aberdonian education still comes to the fore...

[gavin]

I've only once used protein supplement (not sure if there was any pollen in that one, it was a gift from a commercial beekeeper) and it was in August in a particularly wet summer when the bees had shut down early and looked like going into the winter with no fresh brood. It did seem to stimulate a little brood rearing.

If your aim is to encourage early build-up, and knowing your location on the fringes of suburbia with mixed flora around, I would try syrup rather than pollen. What matters more will be the autumn state of the colony. A young queen, late brood raising, plenty of stores and a long warm autumn (!) and you are fairly likely to have stronger than average colonies in March ready to build quickly and take advantage of the spring flora including oilseed rape.

If your bees are sited well away from spring pollen perhaps in an agricultural desert where rape is the main crop, then artificial boosting may be worthwhile. But in that situation the best bet would be to find somewhere better for the bees.

[mbc]

I think you have it Gavin, there's only any real benefit in a pollen dearth. These rarely if ever occur during a west Wales spring, but on occasions like the late summer leading to autumn and winter 2012/2013 I think feeding pollen supplements might have been very cost effective. Sorry for the west Wales reference, but it might have been different elsewhere so needed qualifying.

If anybody's interested I have some beekeeping specific crystal balls at a very reasonable price, pm me for details, first come, first served.

[drumgerry]

I can see the benefit of trying to get them going early where OSR is going to be your main nectar flow of the year. Speaking for myself I don't mind a steadier build up as my year is built around firstly the clover followed by the heather. No OSR around here so I don't see the point in giving them pollen supplements/substitutes. Once they get going properly in Spring there's no shortage of pollen for my bees.

[Mellifera Crofter]

... If your bees are sited well away from spring pollen perhaps in an agricultural desert where rape is the main crop, then artificial boosting may be worthwhile. But in that situation the best bet would be to find somewhere better for the bees.

Where shall I take my bees, Gavin? The nature of a desert is that it stretches for miles and miles.

I do however move most of my colonies to other apiaries in spring, and I've just come back from visiting somebody's native woodland that I hope to use as a new, permanent, apiary. I'm also happy to say that here on my hill all of my colonies are alive and well and buzzing around today.

Kitta

[gavin]

If that native woodland has some of the useful trees - willow, bird cherry/gean, sycamore, lime, horse chestnut and a decent understorey then you can hardly better it.

Delighted to have a West Wales reference. I reckon the same applies in much of Scotland.

[Poly Hive]

Pollen patties are insurance. the books will tell you there is very little risk of dearth but... who knows if it will rain or not. When I was commercial I used Spanish pollen which was irridated for disease.

So lets play what if... If the spring is rubbish.. raining all the time... cold and windy.. one needs to boost morale. And frankly morale is grossly over looked. Happy bees get on, miserable bees do NOT.

so.. thin syrup, a pound a pint, and pollen patties.. and woo hoo off they go.

PH

[mbc]

... frankly morale is grossly over looked.
PH

This is very true,, but I'm still unconvinced that a scoop of foreign gloop plonked on top of their nest is necessarily a boost.

[drumgerry]

I'm of the view that the less I have to feed my bees the better for them and for my wallet (the latter being the bigger of the two concerns!). So adding pollen sub or supplement is not something I want to do. And the point remains why in such a hurry to build them up? Is everyone so focused on OSR? Maybe it's just because we have none here on Speyside I find it slightly odd.

[Jon]

Mine are finding plenty of pollen today. What's this greyish pollen? Probably from some sort of catkin.

http://youtu.be/7jO4xk0rJXs

[Poly Hive]

When I used the patties I was aiming at OSR and very important it was too. The norm for me was a ton of it and it fairly helped to pay some bills. With that sort of return the feeding as a very good investment.

Down here the Autumn sown OSR barely flowers for three weeks and it is so early, starting third week in March usually I don't put on supers if I can avoid it, and if it gets stroed in the 2nd brood box I bruise it to get the bees to consume it before the supers go on, and my Lime 2014 comb honey is still liquid which frankly is extremely gratifying.

PH

[gavin]

Mine are finding plenty of pollen today. What's this greyish pollen? Probably from some sort of catkin.


What, no Belfast brogue on that one?! One of the elms (red tufty things rather than proper catkins) has pollen that colour and one of the ornamental prunus is another possibility. They're out now.

[Jon]

Belfast brogue? And there was me thinking I had an accent like Prince Charles.

I noticed both hazel and alder catkins when I was out for a walk today as well. The hazel pollen seems to be very yellow.

[greengumbo]

Inspired by this thread and a big bag of pollen I have spare I made a pile of patties using "finmans" recipe from the other place.

Smells quite appetising. I have popped them in the freezer for now as I thought it was a bit early for up here. Might stick one on and just see if it gets touched. Do i stick them face down over the frames with the greaseproof paper on the top to stop them drying out ?

[greengumbo]

Mine are finding plenty of pollen today. What's this greyish pollen? Probably from some sort of catkin.

http://youtu.be/7jO4xk0rJXs

Some sort of Japanese maple ? Might not be too early in your sub-tropical climate.

[Jon]

Some sort of Japanese maple ? Might not be too early in your sub-tropical climate.

about 8c but nice and sunny.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Inspired by this thread and a big bag of pollen I have spare I made a pile of patties using "finmans" recipe from the other place.
...

Is that pollen from your own hives, GB? If so, was it easy to collect?
Kitta

[greengumbo]

Not this bag Kitta, was uk organic treated pollen bought online for a work expt but not cheap ! Bought a trap this year in thornes winter sale.

[Poly Hive]

Patties should be on now along with a pint of one pound to the pint of syrup. No syrup take, no pattie take is a very good indicator of a weak colony. when you "slap and slurp" in and out in a minute, in a weeks time it is revealing.

PH

[greengumbo]

Patties should be on now along with a pint of one pound to the pint of syrup. No syrup take, no pattie take is a very good indicator of a weak colony. when you "slap and slurp" in and out in a minute, in a weeks time it is revealing.

PH

What weight is a "standard" patty that you slap on ? Mine are big pancake things, appropriately, and weight about 500g each.

[fatshark]

That'd be a standard 500g patty you'll be using greengumbo. There are a range of other standards.

As you can tell, I have nothing useful to contribute to this thread … other than this. Last year I gave many of my colonies a tablespoon or two of pollen, simply added onto an index card lying on the top bars and positioned close to the bees. Some took it, others did not. Most nibbled the index card. Those that did take it weren't appreciably advanced later in the spring. I saw no benefit and probably won't repeat the experiment. Of course, this might be due to differences in the amount of pollen stored and overwintered, but I also suspect that different colonies accept pollen more or less. I've seen pretty much the same thing with commercial pollen/fondant mixes (Naktapoll?) when some appreciate it and other don't. The pollen was Australian acacia (I think).

[greengumbo]

That'd be a standard 500g patty you'll be using greengumbo. There are a range of other standards.

As you can tell, I have nothing useful to contribute to this thread … other than this. Last year I gave many of my colonies a tablespoon or two of pollen, simply added onto an index card lying on the top bars and positioned close to the bees. Some took it, others did not. Most nibbled the index card. Those that did take it weren't appreciably advanced later in the spring. I saw no benefit and probably won't repeat the experiment. Of course, this might be due to differences in the amount of pollen stored and overwintered, but I also suspect that different colonies accept pollen more or less. I've seen pretty much the same thing with commercial pollen/fondant mixes (Naktapoll?) when some appreciate it and other don't. The pollen was Australian acacia (I think).

Yes they are the euro-standard best in show 500g patty indeed :)

I think I copied your pollen sprinkling last year and noted similar results.....ie a lack of any difference. This year I have the pollen and it needs used so will slap it on regardless.

Sunny and 9'C outside. Lovely stuff.

[gavin]

Slap? Slap?! What *are* you guys doing? I hope that you really mean ... carefully laying down on the top bars after ushering the workers out of the way.

Then standing back and thinking: 'Well, that's me feeling better now that I'm *doing something* but I'm damn sure the bees will be just the same when the season gets underway.'

NBU have a useful PDF for all you spring fiddlers.

www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=743

[fatshark]

NBU have a useful PDF for all you spring fiddlers.

My spring fiddling was too late for one of my colonies … just been out to put fondant on a few light colonies and discovered one - the first this year - that didn't make it. Classic isolation starvation after a prolonged cold spell here … a small patch of sealed brood and the nearest stores (of which there were plenty in the colony) about 15cm away. My notes from the end of last season included a comment about the strength of colony (not enough) going into the winter. This was the only one of the weak ones I decided not to unite. D'oh.

[HJBee]

Is heard of a couple of local colonies not surviving and I knew 1 of them was stronger than 2 of mine going into winter. Even tho I'm not supposed to yet (half way through desensitisation) I went out to check at the weekend and I'm glad to say they're were all alive & still had fondant. Small risk for peace of mind.