Polish Bees: The last straw?

[Eric McArthur]

More trouble?


Huddersfield University business students set up firm to import Eastern European bees
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/buzz-biz-polish-bees-fly-8257933

[Moggett]

Light the blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance.....

Ewa’s father is an experienced beekeeper in a country which is ahead of Britain when it comes to looking after hives. Michael said that in Poland there was much less of a problem with ‘colony collapse disorder’ and there was a greater openness to innovation and new ideas.

[Pete L]

Never read such a load of bo**ocks, they should never be allowed to write such rubbish in a paper.

[Black Comb]

Where's Nigel Farrage?

[GRIZZLY]

What a load of ignorant fiction.

[drumgerry]

Nice to hear that most of the hives used in Britain date to the 1920s!! That'll be Thornes out of business then. Utter tripe clearly written by an ignoramus. Were journalists always this stupid?!

[EK.Bee]

If its upset you register & leave a comment on the article?

I think SBA should be looking into pushing for some form of statutory regulation
for people wanting to operate these types of schemes

[drumgerry]

Er....they're in England where the SBA has no remit! And rather than upset I think it's probably fair to say we're all a bit worn out and world weary with these endless "let's cash on the disappearing bees" pyramid schemes.

[Eric McArthur]

All we can do here is inform Scottish beekeepers using this forum, the SB magazine, local associations and anybody who will listen; that failing UK/Scottish government action on imports, we the beekeeping community maintain a strict vigil and report any beekeeper, who brings foreign bees into Scotland, to their nearest local association for wider promulgation! Name and shame! - perhaps even the odd incendiary accident!!!

As an aside. Gavin any word on the Eastern European 'industrial' Bumble Bee breeding project?

[drumgerry]

I'm sorry but that last post is simply ridiculous Eric. "Incendiary accident"????? Surely you're joking. And as for name and shame and reporting this,that and the other - no....just no. We need to make imports illegal but to do it using the law. Vigilante actions such as you are suggesting can only bring the people concerned into disrepute or perhaps to a court of law themselves. I for one won't be part of a beekeeping version of the Daily Mail/Sun "string em up" brigade.

[prakel]

I'm sorry but that last post is simply ridiculous Eric. "Incendiary accident"????? Surely you're joking. And as for name and shame and reporting this,that and the other - no....just no. We need to make imports illegal but to do it using the law. Vigilante actions such as you are suggesting can only bring the people concerned into disrepute or perhaps to a court of law themselves. I for one won't be part of a beekeeping version of the Daily Mail/Sun "string em up" brigade.

Great post. Exactly.

[Eric McArthur]

I admire your pacifist views! But folk who import bees knowing that these bees could carry a deadly parasite, which could have a devastating effect on our fragile honey bee population and honey industry, are laughing at you - they have no social conscience, and deserve no consideration. In the years when Varroa was rife in England and Scotland was free of the mite - a number of irresponsible English beekeepers secretly brought their bees into various areas in Scotland - when they were discovered they were exposed and named - the colonies were destroyed or they were rapidly despatched back South. We managed to maintain Scotland Varroa free until 4th September, 1997 when it was discovered in Dumfries and Galloway. Having been previously found in Canonbie on 28th August. I was editor of the Scottish Beekeeper magazine during these 'trying' years and I remorselesly hunted these stupid, selfish individuals; buying Scotland precious time, while more research produced improved treatments against the scourge! At present there are not one but two petitions aimed a UK and Scottish government import ban circulating. The support for these petitions has been pathetic! I would ask all beekeepers, who are not just bee-havers, but individuals who have empathy for bees and beekeeping to be vigilant and act to safeguard our bees.

[drumgerry]

Clearly you have lost the plot - again. Inciting arson attacks on beekeepers hives! Perhaps it's time for another of your periodic bans Eric. What was it last time? We were all in the pay of the pesticide companies or some such nonsense.

[prakel]

Well, I for one am not much of a pacifist but I do draw the line at witch hunts aimed at 'outing' people who themselves are complying and working within the law as it stands.

If you were suggesting reporting (to appropriate authorities) people who are illegally importing, then fine, that's different; I myself have asked a couple of times on this forum why the people who have knowledge of large scale illegal imports (that we hear about) aren't reporting that information. However, legal or illegal, no one deserves to be on the end of the "odd incendiary accident", these things have a terrible habit of escalating with horrifying consequences very easily.

[mbc]

This threads a laugh, I'm all for a bit of direct action, if we were French we would be threatening Westminster with mountains of live bees by now if we didnt get our way, bravo! Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité,!

[EK.Bee]

Er....they're in England where the SBA has no remit! And rather than upset I think it's probably fair to say we're all a bit worn out and world weary with these endless "let's cash on the disappearing bees" pyramid schemes.

I'm not talking specifically about this company. But there are similar in operation in Scotland
Generally speaking I'm not in favour of more government & regulation however I feel that
something constructive should be considered. As it stands anyone with limited experience
can launch into one of these as you call them pyramid schemes

[drumgerry]

I think perhaps the problem with these schemes lies with the lack of the funders' expertise in beekeeping matters and the fact that they seem to defer to the perceived greater knowledge possessed by the applicants. That coupled with endless media hysteria leads to the funding gravy train we've all witnessed over the last few years. I agree better scrutiny is needed ( not sure about regulation) but where is such scrutiny going to come from to prevent the current free for all?

[Eric McArthur]

Clearly you have lost the plot - again. Inciting arson attacks on beekeepers hives! Perhaps it's time for another of your periodic bans Eric. What was it last time? We were all in the pay of the pesticide companies or some such nonsense.

Ha laddie/lassie;
I am within a year or so of retiring (gracefully?)from the Craft. I hope you are young enough to 'enjoy', a few years from now, the pleasures of working with A. tumida, which you seem to be prepared to accept without demur; imported by some irresponsible, law-abidung, individual who has some knowledge of, but no love for the honeybee Perhaps when you have experienced at first hand the misery this parasite will wreak on bees you might experience a Damascus event - but meantime I can only express my sorrow at the level of your concern for Apis, the wee defenceless creature upon whose person, uninvited we, Homo., have inflicted our will! The law is very often viewed as an ass! A law which enshrines the right of selfish, uncaring individuals to behave badly is such a n ass!

[drumgerry]

A law which convicts people for arson attacks is not an ass though eh Eric?! I have no problem with my level of concern for our bees. You however seem to prefer to live in some kind of Walter Mitty parallel universe where beekeepers set fire to other beekeepers hives. Strangely I prefer to have imports banned using legal methods - as you may have noticed from my years of posting on the subject on here and in my letters to the SBA magazine.

Maybe you should take early retirement laddie. Gracefully? Ahem......excuse me while I choke on the word as applied to you.

[prakel]

No point dwelling on what the French might do. We need to do what we as individuals think is right. For me, the outrageous behaviour advocated earlier isn't the way but each to their own. Threads like this are enough to make a man want to import 50 packages and then advertise the fact on this forum complete with their location....

[GRIZZLY]

Where are the two prospective "importers" getting their funding from ?.

[Duncan]

Eric McArthur: Conspiracy with intent to commit a criminal act - arson. Just about the most disgusting post I've read on beekeeping forums.

[Duncan]

I would have thought that Admin would have taken action over this inflammatory post - unless of course he actually agrees with it!

[drumgerry]

Duncan - I think it's a fair bet that Gavin who runs this forum will not be of one mind with Eric on this subject. You'll just have to wait for him to turn up!

[wee willy]

I took until 1996 for Varroa to reach SouthLancashire , there were no secret moon light hive flittings it was a steady North bound March from Torbay in 1992.
Like the Scottish, we thought the Norther latitudes would be our saviour but not so .
I like many others abhor the post by Eric . Stupidity springs to mind .
I'm glad Gavin hasn't stepped in too soon, not doing so has given reasonable people time to express their disapproval of his mad rant !
WW .


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[Eric McArthur]

Good to talk! 'Babies and Bathwater' spring to mind though!
It seems more heat than light is being generated here!
Perhaps it is time to have a football match in 'No Man's Land.

[wee willy]

Eric stop trying to defend an indefensible position is serves only to endorse your crassness!


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[EK.Bee]

Meanwhile back in Huddersfield:

Dear -------,

Various discrepancies in the story concerning the bees have been brought to my attention and as such the story is now being removed from the University’s website.
John Ramsdin
PR Manager, University of Huddersfield


If we could stop the tit for tat for a few moments & bring it back to the original subject:

1 The original post was useful
2 Erroneous information has been removed from the Huddersfield Uni website (no- one was burned in the process:))
3 Bee keepers hopefully are thinking about the need to import bees in the light of recent issues

Personal attacks/accusations at posters who post questionable/controversial comments are nearly always unhelpful & detract from
the issue
Best to ignore? not always easy I know
This forum is normally a bastion of sanity lets keep it that way?

[wee willy]

Aye I think the thread has run its course and I hope this forum has emerged a little stronger [emoji4]
I subscribe to quite a few fora mostly bee related and find this one the most balanced and civilised , people will I hope resist posting endless copy about the same subject ad nauseum !
WW


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[Calum]

Root cause is still the same. Not enough colonies to keep up with demand. So rather than import better improve beekeepers skills to make imports unnecessary!


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[wee willy]

Rather than simply ignorance , it's often the grass is greener type thinking! The increasing urbanisation of villages plus newbies often encouraged to keep bees in less than optimum conditions being promised Tshirt and shorts beekeeping if they start with a choice from a whole variety of exotic bees !
WW


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[Eric McArthur]

I took until 1996 for Varroa to reach SouthLancashire , there were no secret moon light hive flittings it was a steady North bound March from Torbay in 1992.
Like the Scottish, we thought the Norther latitudes would be our saviour but not so .
I like many others abhor the post by Eric . Stupidity springs to mind .
I'm glad Gavin hasn't stepped in too soon, not doing so has given reasonable people time to express their disapproval of his mad rant !
WW .

Ochoan! Wee Willie, I might be stupid, I might be crass, but I do not make up scurrilous stories to try to score cheap 'Brownie Points' and I do my homework and get my facts right before I go into print, unlike yourself:
A report on English beekeepers bringing bees up to Dunblane appeared in the June, 1997 issue of the Scottish Beekeeper magazine and another incident was reported in the July 1997 issue regarding bees moved from the South to to Golspie.
The Scots knew, in the early 80s, all about Varroa and its potential threat to Scotland's bees and its ability to thrive in cold climes! Read the Scottish Beekeeper magazine issues for the early 80s and be amazed at just how well informed Scotland's beekeepers were at this time!
Gavin will tell you just how much more information about Varroa there was in the Scottish public domain than in England at that time.
Attack me if you will but with the truth!

[mbc]

Eric McArthur: Conspiracy with intent to commit a criminal act - arson. Just about the most disgusting post I've read on beekeeping forums.

There are two sides to every filthy coin, and "disgusting" is in the eye of the beholder.
Is it more morally indefensible to suggest destroying specific colonies in an attempt to stop an ecological disaster from happening, to the benefit of all beekeepers, or is it worse to fly in the face of common sense and the well being of the general beekeeping community by campaigning to keep open the flow of imports for one's own personal gain?
Tricky.

[drumgerry]

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this thread I'd like to make a single observation. During the times of Eric's absence this forum seems to operate in a civilised manner on the whole. We have our disagreements but not to the point of confrontation and name calling. Oh how things change when Eric deigns to make an appearance or whenever his current ban sentence expires. Sad but true.

[wee willy]

I suppose the advice , "don't feed the troll" could quell his appetite for controversy ?


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[Eric McArthur]

Drumgerry wrote: We have our disagreements but not to the point of confrontation and name calling.
Wee Willie wrote;
I suppose the advice , "don't feed the troll" could quell his appetite for controversy ?
.................................................. ...........
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[GRIZZLY]

Don't forget - Eric likes to get in the last word.

[wee willy]

Amen !


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[Eric McArthur]

666!

[Duncan]

Arsenist!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=arsenist&utm_source=search-action

[drumgerry]

Well the first 4 letters are right Duncan! [emoji6] (just joking....)

[gavin]

1. The SBA does not support any calls to break the law, in fact it condemns them. Well, I do on its behalf. That also applies to actions to restrict imports at a time when we are, once again, under clear threat from the globalisation of bee pests and pathogens. They have to be legal measures. As far as Eric's comments are concerned, he was out of order. If he was any kind of representative for the SBA then there would have to be further discussions and public apologies - he isn't, so we just have some irresponsible comments on an internet forum from someone who should know better. I doubt very much whether Eric would actually destroy anything, but if there were incidents then we know where fingers would be pointing first.

2. In this thread there has been, to a degree, a lack of the self-moderation we seek from those who post here. The excellent name this forum has for polite, respectful and informed debate is under threat. If something annoys you please leave it for while, think carefully, consider whether you'd say that to the person's face, consider that your own comments may remain as a permanent record, and only post if you can be polite.

3. To cap it all, we have a major exporter of queens from the Mediterranean masquerading on here as someone with a 'Scottish' name (despite his own origins in the southern hemisphere), and, under another made-up name, posting complaints on another bee forum (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=32189) with links to here - then coming back to insult someone on this forum.

This thread is now closed. Please be nice. If you can't control yourself and need to argue please use the PM facility to keep it private, or personal email when you know who are addressing, or better still just go for the moral high ground and remain polite.