SBA Hive beetle Any progress?

[EK.Bee]

I'm wondering how the SBA hive Beetle discussions are progressing since the council meeting & resolution?

[gavin]

All I'm prepared to say on an open forum is that it is a really crucial time in discussions both at Scottish and UK level. The discussions that matter most regarding a spreading pest like SHB are those at UK level, largely as imports cross the UK border into England but also given the BBKA statements on the topic. There are two senior people in the SBA who link with other associations in the UK and it is these individuals who are responsible for representing the view of the members of the SBA at the UK level. The Council meeting gave the SBA a very clear steer on what it should be doing, so I intend to contact them now and invite them here to answer your question. One has posted here in the past, the other has not.

[fatshark]

And for those south of the border … there is a BBKA Annual Delegates Meeting in January (I think) where West Sussex have tabled a proposal to support an import ban (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1831-Small-Hive-Beetle-in-mainland-Europe&p=28370&viewfull=1#post28370). Now is a good time for associations to raise their concerns with county representatives to increase the pressure on the Exec. Ctte. who currently do not support the proposal.

Is Rosie about? mbc? What's happening in Wales with the WBKA? I've looked at their website and can find no statement other than the announcement that SHB is in Italy.

[mbc]

Is Rosie about? mbc? What's happening in Wales with the WBKA? I've looked at their website and can find no statement other than the announcement that SHB is in Italy.

Comba meeting next week.

[EK.Bee]

Good for West Sussex!

Any word on our own Scottish Governments position ?
Is Aunty Nicola going to play ball or not?

[Eric McArthur]

E.K Bee Wrote:
"Is Aunty Nicola going to play ball or not"?
.................................................. ........................
As delegate of my local SNP branch I have submitted a resolution on an import ban re., the SHB for consideration to my branch, which if accepted will go forward to the Selection Committee of the National Exec Council and again, if accepted will be submitted at the SNP Spring Conference by myself and voted on - if accepted it will be put forward as policy and could result in a Scottish ban!! The wheels of politics grind slowly but patience is the key!
I successfully submitted a resolution to the SNP Spring Conderence in 2012 on banning neonics which, was seconded by Alyn Smith MEP, this was accepted unanimously - sadly the SBA rejected the same resolution at the AGM in that year. It is now common knowledge that later that year neonics were banned for 2 years by the EU parliament!
Sorry for digging up decomposing bodies! I merely wish to demonstrated that such actions as going through the machinery of government can get a positive result. However I realise that time is of the essence here and the resolution even if accepted could be too late! The effort is worth making as far as I am concerned - even if only as a protest!

[GRIZZLY]

Its the age old problem that - those who don't keep bees wonder what all the fuss is about by those that do - most people are quite ignorant about bees and don't understand the implications of the devastation that such pests can cause. About time some serious education of those in "power" - perhaps then some serious attention might be taken of the problems faced by All beekeepers in the United Kingdom and elsewhere.

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Grizzly
Eduction in high places - that is the way forward! To this end further to my last post re., a resolution on the banning of imports of honey bees. With the involvement the new thousands of SNP members at the 2015 SNP Spring conference; such a high profile exposure is one step closer.

I assume you will notify Gavin - see under!!

Gavin
I have just received confirmation from the secretary of my local SNP branch that the resolution pasted under, will be going forward to the next stage in the selection process. As an SNP supporter (member?), I wonder if you would care to second this motion should it find its way onto the agenda of the 2015, SNP Spring Conference.

Eric

1) Conference deplores the imminent threat to the health and continued existence of Scotland’s honey bees and Scottish beekeeping posed by the Small Hive Beetle (Aethina tumida) due to the absence of a ban on the importation of honey bees from countries in which this dangerous parasite exists both within and out with the European Union.

2) Conference believes that in the medium to long term interests of safeguarding the health and continued existence of the honey bee and thus safeguarding the important pollination service performed by the honey bee that effective protective measures should be put in place.
3) Conference proposes that an effective importation ban should be invoked regarding countries referred to in paragraph 1)
to protect Scotland’s honey bees and the beekeeping industry from this scourge

[Duncan]

1) Conference deplores the imminent threat to the health and continued existence of Scotland’s honey bees and Scottish beekeeping posed by the Small Hive Beetle (Aethina tumida) due to the absence of a ban on the importation of honey bees from countries in which this dangerous parasite exists both within and out with the European Union.

Of course, I support this proposal. However, a ban already exists as regards the 100km zone around infected apiaries. The method of dealing with the situation has been in place for a long time. It must be stressed to members that they should not import any bees without proper paperwork -I don't think that any one in their right mind would do this anyway and I mean both exporters and importers.

[gavin]

Eric, I haven't been a member of any political party for about 40 years. Good on you for raising the profile though.

Duncan has a point about the 'unofficial' transactions. There are a lot of grey imports and, on average, these are likely to be more risky than from those who have a reputation to uphold.

[prakel]

Hi Grizzly
Eduction in high places - that is the way forward! To this end further to my last post re., a resolution on the banning of imports of honey bees. With the involvement the new thousands of SNP members at the 2015 SNP Spring conference; such a high profile exposure is one step closer.

Might be a little late. There's probably only four full months from now until the 2015 imports start coming in. At this speed, does anyone who's looking for the ban believe that it'll be in place before the start of next season?

[Eric McArthur]

[QUOTE=gavin;28431]Eric, I haven't been a member of any political party for about 40 years. Good on you for raising the profile though.

Never too late!!

[Eric McArthur]

Might be a little late. There's probably only four full months from now until the 2015 imports start coming in. At this speed, does anyone who's looking for the ban believe that it'll be in place before the start of next season?

Going down fighting!

[Eric McArthur]

.

I don't think that any one in their right mind would do this anyway and I mean both exporters and importers.

Hi Duncan
I am impressed by your optimism!!

[fatshark]

Interestingly someone has just posted on the other forum that it would be easy to post a queen in a disguised envelope (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=451445&postcount=44) so there's no point in having a ban if easily circumvented.

I'm less optimistic than Duncan ...

I would hope that making something illegal would discourage many from following this course of action. I think we also need far better education at the association level to emphasise the potential problems from imports.

[GRIZZLY]

Unfortunately fatshark , although association members might decry imports from infected areas -they are not able to introduce legislation to impose a ban - this falls into the remit of the "suits" that occupy the U.K. parliaments. These are the people we have to persuade to take up responsible actions on behalf of us beekeepers.

[Duncan]

Just "putting a queen in an envelope" without the required health certificate and posting it from one EU country to another IS illegal. The exporter and importer are both acting illegally.

It is in everyone's best interests that procedures are followed and veterinary checks are carried out when moving bees around the EU.

A heavy fine, like 50,000 AND the threat of a jail sentence, would go a long way towards discouraging this sort of behaviour.

Because of EU and international trade agreements, there is not going to be a ban on imports from SHB free areas. National governments are not able to impose a ban - no matter how much lobbying is done at a local level. So any petitions etc are just a waste of time and effort, but probably have a "feel good" side to them.

It is disturbing that the SHB was discovered right at the end of the active season in Europe. It may even be present already in the UK and elsewhere, but just hasn't been detected yet. The spring of 2015 might be interesting to say the least.

Where SHB has been detected ALL the hives in the apiary have been burnt. Sad but true and shows just how determined the vets are in their efforts to eradicate it.

Finally a question for you: Does SHB also attack Bombus nests?
I looked at the NBU information and it says that Bombus is an alternative host! I can see that it is only a matter of time for it to spread far and wide.

[fatshark]

I certainly agree that Associations cannot impose a ban. They can a) reduce the demand for imports through education, b) pressurise their MP and MEP's and c) insist that the national beekeeping associations act responsibly in the interests of all UK beekeepers. They have little time to do any of these things ...

Article 36 of the Lisbon Treaty states that "The provisions of Articles 34 and 35 shall not preclude prohibitions or restrictions on imports, exports or goods in transit justified on grounds of public morality, public policy or public security; the protection of health and life of humans, animals or plants; the protection of national treasures possessing artistic, historic or archaeological value; or the protection of industrial and commercial property. Such prohibitions or restrictions shall not, however, constitute a means of arbitrary discrimination or a disguised restriction on trade between Member States."

I'm no expert in EU law (actually, I'm whatever is diametrically opposite an expert in EU law and most other laws is called) but I think some of the above might just apply.

Re.the beetle being here already … I believe the imported packages (to the UK) have already been checked by the NBU. I've no idea what's happening in France and wouldn't be at all surprised if the beetle has been exported there from Italy already. That's why an import ban is more important and potentially effective than an export ban from the known afflicted region.

[Eric McArthur]

Now there IS a workable idea!!


"A heavy fine, like 50,000 AND the threat of a jail sentence, would go a long way towards discouraging this sort of behaviour".

[EK.Bee]

[QUOTE=fatshark;28437]Interestingly someone has just posted on the other forum that it would be easy to post a queen in a disguised envelope (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=451445&postcount=44) so there's no point in having a ban if easily circumvented.

What does a stealth envelope look like? :D

(I could hire my dogs out to GLA as detectors
If I put a bee youtube on the TV, the minute they both hear buzzing they are off)

I find the "everyone will turn into a smuggler" argument quite unlikely

[fatshark]

Jay Evans and colleagues have published a study using genetic tracing of SHB … perhaps these fines could be retrospectively imposed ;-)

http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1603/AN10027 (sorry can't provide access to the full ms)

Worrying opening to the final sentence of the abstract "Excellent dispersal of beetles, aided in some cases by migratory beekeeping and the bee trade ...."

[mbc]

A few weeks ago we thought calabria in Italy was an shb free area, we now know differently.
To allow imports from anywhere with beekeeping contacts to this area is bonkers until everyone has a proper look in the new season, vigilant and forewarned by what's happened to the unfortunate beekeepers of calabria.

[Duncan]

Worrying opening to the final sentence of the abstract "Excellent dispersal of beetles, aided in some cases by migratory beekeeping and the bee trade ...."
Not surprising is it when you consider that large numbers of hives are concentrated at Almond pollination time and then moved all around the USA. A busy package industry has also helped it move over long distances.

A bit different to the UK.

[fatshark]

If you look at the number of package and queen imports from Italy alone (1200+ and 1700+ respectively in 2014) and compare it to the scale of UK beekeeping (~200,000 colonies in total) then 2% of colonies in any one year here might be of Italian origin. If you consider all imports (nucs, packages and queens, perhaps ~12,000 in total) it might be 6% of all colonies. Figures from Beebase.

It's certainly much bigger in the USA (2.5+ million colonies) and there's certainly lots more migratory beekeeping there, but that doesn't alter the fact that the bee trade was identified in that abstract as an efficient means of spreading SHB and there is a significant amount of bees traded from Italy and the rest of Europe.

[Adam]

fatshark, the quantities of imports you write about indicates that we DON'T need them; Our own bees can easily make up numbers themselves.

[GRIZZLY]

.

What does a stealth envelope look like? :D

I've no idea -- just can't see them !¬

[busybeephilip]

Got this petition this morning to stop imports with the aim of preventing arrival of SHB into the UK if anyone is interested in signing ?

[fatshark]

fatshark, the quantities of imports you write about indicates that we DON'T need them; Our own bees can easily make up numbers themselves.

I agree … but the point I was making is that bee trade is a significant route of pathogen spread.

Perhaps everyone - including the association officers - should be forced to watch Michael Palmer and his Sustainable Apiary … he's talking at the Somerset Beekeepers Lecture Day (http://www.somersetbeekeepers.org.uk/lecture.html) early next year. With better preparation, improved IPM, more timely training, more efforts at colony improvement, autumn requeening etc etc we would not need imports in the UK.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Got this petition this morning to stop imports with the aim of preventing arrival of SHB into the UK if anyone is interested in signing ?

We already have two mentioned on this forum:

here (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1867-SHB-petition) (Eric's petition directed to the Scottish Government),

and here (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1870-Temporary-ban-on-bees-from-Italy&highlight=petition) (to Elizabeth Truss). Do you have a different one in mind?
Kitta

[Beegirl]

Will a ban be in place before the 2015 imports start coming to UK? No, probably not, if ever, but at least it has everyone thinking and talking about the problem.

[Calum]

At least they could introduce a certification of health from a qualified vet on all imports.
We have to have them in germany now even for shifting colonies between shires (like between bayern &
Baden-Württemberg). not just hive beetle, fould brood, ect.

[prakel]

Will a ban be in place before the 2015 imports start coming to UK? No, probably not, if ever, but at least it has everyone thinking and talking about the problem.

This is what I was also referring to in post 11. Four months and counting. So probably not happening.

As for a last minute ban, just imagine the lobbying from the large scale importers (including a few that plainly do have the ear of those in power) 'you've had all winter, now you're pulling the rug out when it's too late for us to place new orders with Southern Hemisphere suppliers.....'

[Pete L]

At least they could introduce a certification of health from a qualified vet on all imports.


We already have that, all imports have to have a health certificate.

[Calum]

We already have that, all imports have to have a health certificate.

Thats good, pity most vets are not qualified in bees, and will take the beekeepers opinion as to the colony's health rather than risk a sting...

[Pete L]

Thats good, pity most vets are not qualified in bees, and will take the beekeepers opinion as to the colony's health rather than risk a sting...

I know of some vets that are thorough, but i would guess you are correct, Callum, to many it is just a routine tick the boxes exercise.

[mbc]

I know of some vets that are thorough, but i would guess you are correct, Callum, to many it is just a routine tick the boxes exercise.

What's the point of a piece of paper if no one has any faith in it? ( other than in an American style lawyer arse covering context)

[Pete L]

What's the point of a piece of paper if no one has any faith in it? ( other than in an American style lawyer arse covering context)

None at all, it is several pieces of paper, gives someone a job i suppose. To export queens from this country the colonies have to be inspected once a month by the bee inspector, and the paperwork done for each shipment, but of course even that guarantees nothing.

[mbc]

None at all, it is several pieces of paper, gives someone a job i suppose. To export queens from this country the colonies have to be inspected once a month by the bee inspector, and the paperwork done for each shipment, but of course even that guarantees nothing.

To export whole colonies within the eu only needs a one off export inspection, same as a usual inspection but a different form to fill.

[Pete L]

To export whole colonies within the eu only needs a one off export inspection, same as a usual inspection but a different form to fill.

That would make sense, as once they are gone....well they are gone.

[mbc]

Well yes, but less fuss than sending queens?!

[Pete L]

Well yes, but less fuss than sending queens?!

I agree, much less hassle, surprised it has not become more popular, instead of just exporting/importing queens, just sell the whole colonies.

[mbc]

I agree, much less hassle, surprised it has not become more popular, instead of just exporting/importing queens, just sell the whole colonies.

Harder to hide whole colonies in grey envelopes too, or carry them back in your pocket.

[EK.Bee]

There are two senior people in the SBA who link with other associations in the UK and it is these individuals who are responsible for representing the view of the members of the SBA at the UK level. The Council meeting gave the SBA a very clear steer on what it should be doing, so I intend to contact them now and invite them here to answer your question. One has posted here in the past, the other has not.

Mmm not happening then?

[Eric McArthur]

I note that Polish thread has been suspended - sorry about the stushie I caused. Threats to my favourite animal rather get my back up! Perhaps the latest info out of Eurioe might temper my action - I had read this quite edifying item in the Swiss Beekeeper mag., earlier No easy cure and the trapping procedures don't work well ! Situation hopeless!!

The Small Hive Beetle – What beekeepers need to know!
The SHB was initially discovered in September 2014, in southern Italy. This is no reason for panic, however it is a good reason to avoid importing bees! It is also important to find out as much as possible about the Natural History of the Beetle, which could soon reach Switzerland.

Benjamin Dainat and Jean-Daniel Charriere. Agroscope, Centre for Bee Research, National Reference Laboratory for Bee Diseases. Schwarzenburgstrasse 161, 3003 Bern- Liebefeld. Translated from the Schweizwerische Bienen Zeitung, issue 12/2014. PP 18 and 19. by A.E.McArthur MIL

The SHB Aethina tumida was discovered on the 5th September, 2014 in Calibria, in the harbour area of Rosarno. Since then multiple infestations have been located in bee colonies. The infected beehives were all burned. The ground in the immediate vicinity of the affected apiaries was treated with insecticide. The aim is to eliminate the Beetle as swiftly as possible. It is assumed that the Beetle if it becomes established will spread widely throughout Europe.

What is the Small Hive Beetle?

As its name implies – it is a beetle whose life cycle is dependent on honey bees and bumble bees. It can infest bee products especially drawn comb, as well as colonies of bees. The adult beetle is able to fly at least 10 km to find a new colony to infest. Its reproduction cycle is shown in Figure 1 and demonstrates that it is dependent on the bee, even although Aethina is able to feed and live on fruit. Its original habitat is the sub Saharan region of Africa. The globalisation of trade and beekeeping has allowed the beetle to spread to Australia, America and Canada and now to Europe.

Damage to the Bee Colony Small colonies are particularly vulnerable to the beetle. The honey comb is also vulnerable. The beetle lays her eggs in cracks and grooves in the hive and the larvae feed on pollen, brood and even honey. The honey in the combs can ferment due to the distribution of yeasts by the beetle. The SHB can also be a vector for AFB. In the advanced stage of infestation the colony can be weakened and the honey reserves can be totally inedible for both bees and humans. Very strong colonies are able to keep the beetle infestations in check and survive, however even such a colony cannot completely eliminate an infestation.
Prevention Measures

This acute problem demonstrates that even importing bees from neighbouring countries is dangerous. The risks from imports had already been recognised for AFB and EFB and this also applies for the SHB. The most important measure which can be taken regarding the SHB is to avoid importing bees! Every beekeeper who imports bees or bee products not only puts themselves at risk they endanger their whole region. Once the SHB is introduced its spread can be extremely rapid, as we have found to our cost already with Varroa

What can be done should the SHB enter Switzerland?

In order to inhibit spread it is important to cease migrating bees or moving bees and to ensure that no used equipment which can be occupied by the beetle is left lying around and not checked regularly. In cases of suspected infestation the incumbent Bee Inspectorate must be informed immediately and samples should be send to the Reference Laboratory in Liebefeld. The individual beekeeper must learn to practice the necessary biosecurity procedures habitually and intensely.

1 Small colonies which do not develop to more than 6 frames should be culled.

2 As soon as honey combs are filled and sealed they should be removed and centrifuged.

3 Only store a minimal amount of drawn comb and check this comb regularly for beetle activity.

4 Maintain a clean and tidy apiary, clean equipment, do not leave comb lying around especially sacrificial drone comb. Do not leave extracted honey comb out for the bees to clean.

The American collective experience demonstrates that it is important to eliminate weak colonies, since these are easily colonised by the beetle. This new parasite now forces us to maintain large powerful colonies of bees.

Nucleus formation and queen rearing takes on a much more important role in order to avoid importing bees.

Treatment against the SHB? Treatment using the presently available substances is not desirable, since the risk of residue buildup in the hive products is more than possible and the treatments could have a negative effect on colony heath and well being. Trapping is an alternative to chemotherapy. The present stage of trap design is inadequate to be fully effective against the beetle. However the present trap designs used in Australia and America are ideal for diagnosis and discovery of initial infestations.

A number of research studies have indicated that formic and acetic acid are effective against the larval and adult stages of the beetle in the comb.

How Great is the Danger? The discovery of the SHB in Italy is no cause for panic, it must however be taken very seriously. Especially important is the avoidance of importing either bees or second-hand beekeeping equipment. The best bee for any area is the local indigenous bee. This is must from now on!

[Calum]

Hi, well the feedback here in Germany I'm hearing is that it is here now, and it will very probably stay. It's spread may be slowed by natural features like the Alps, but will not be halted. There is a very long list of invasions of all sorts, few were stopped and not much is being done differently to raise any hope this time. A ban on all imports may well the UK's beekeepers only hope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greengumbo]

Hi Calum where are you hearing this from ? Worrying development if confirmed :(

[Calum]

Hi Calum where are you hearing this from ? Worrying development if confirmed :(

Hi
this months beekeepers magazine observes that reports of the beetle are now so widespread it can be considered as established in Italy.
It is not hopeless (they say) that it my yet be erradicated.
Our local beekeeping Fachwart (local state expert) is not confident that Italy has the recources to deal with it. Also as the problem has not been kept under control in its first season so expect more spread as a result of colony movement (autumn and spring).

The beekeeping magazine says that strong colonies will be able to cope with this, when treated correctly (medicated), as is the case with varroa.
It will not be the end of beekeping, but it will be another big challange, and will put much more pressure on colony survival.
In colder climes the beatle may not be such a huge issue, as the number of breeding cycles will be reduced, so it my be possible to hold the pest in check.
http://www.diebiene.de/kleiner-beutenkaefer-aktuelle-italien - older link

[James O]

On the 12th December the EU put in place a ban on the movement of the following items from the region of Calabria and Sicily until 31 May 2015:
(i)
honey bees;
(ii)
bumblebees;
(iii)
unprocessed apiculture by-products;
(iv)
beekeeping equipment;
(v)
comb honey intended for human consumption;

Details here:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_359_R_0011&from=EN

[drumgerry]

Well if it's already in Germany as Calum is saying then they're shutting the gate after the horse has bolted aren't they?

[prakel]

Well if it's already in Germany as Calum is saying then they're shutting the gate after the horse has bolted aren't they?

I read his post differently; more of, 'it's here to stay in continental Europe'.

[Calum]

Yes, Parkel is right in his interpretation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eric McArthur]

Hi
this months beekeepers magazine observes that reports of the beetle are now so widespread it can be considered as established in Italy.
It is not hopeless (they say) that it my yet be erradicated.
Our local beekeeping Fachwart (local state expert) is not confident that Italy has the recources to deal with it. Also as the problem has not been kept under control in its first season so expect more spread as a result of colony movement (autumn and spring).

The beekeeping magazine says that strong colonies will be able to cope with this, when treated correctly (medicated), as is the case with varroa.
It will not be the end of beekeping, but it will be another big challange, and will put much more pressure on colony survival.
In colder climes the beatle may not be such a huge issue, as the number of breeding cycles will be reduced, so it my be possible to hold the pest in check.
http://www.diebiene.de/kleiner-beutenkaefer-aktuelle-italien - older link
Hi Calum

I have just translated the latest piece by Ritter from Die Biene. He advises 'don't panic be vigilant and report anything suspicious to the authorities'. Die Biene reports 3000 colonies have been burned in Italy so far and numbers are rising. Mike Allsopp the South African SHB expert has been quoted as stating that the outbreak in Italy is now unstoppable and the rest of Europe is at risk - only hope seems to be vigilance and immediate positive action with any outbreak.

[Duncan]

So the vets burned 3000 colonies for nothing! Maybe they should have enlisted the help of your own local pyromaniac.

[prakel]

So the vets burned 3000 colonies for nothing!

No doubt the fear of such action had no small part to play in allowing the beetle to become so established in the first place.

It's a shame that practical observation and experience (including timescales) have effectively been lost to us due to the wall of silence which surrounds the apiaries that were living with an infestation prior to the official diagnosis. Maybe, if there'd been some kind of positive incentive to report the initial outbreak(s) things would have worked out differently. But we'll never know now.

[Duncan]

Yes I agree that there should be a compensation program in place before the event so that beekeepers would not try to hide the presence of SHB. Who could bear seeing their colonies being burnt without any compensation.
It also makes me think that the really cheap queens being offered earlier this year from Sicily had the incentive behind them to sell as many as possible before the gate closed.

[Jon]

It also makes me think that the really cheap queens being offered earlier this year from Sicily had the incentive behind them to sell as many as possible before the gate closed.

Another conspiracy theorist. You will get on like a house on fire with Eric, if you pardon the expression.

[Calluna4u]

It also makes me think that the really cheap queens being offered earlier this year from Sicily had the incentive behind them to sell as many as possible before the gate closed.

1. Though plentiful, they were not unusually cheap for their provenance.
2. They had geared up to meet N.European demand, but 2014 was one of the best ever for getting queens mated, so demand dropped off sharply, so they had stock they needed to move.
3. I know the main man in Sicily personally. They had no inkling whatsoever about SHB and it came as a total shock. They are still in shock and their livelihood has been destroyed.

[prakel]

Nice to see you posting here -hopefully you'll have time for some practical stuff outside of SHB related topics too.

[fatshark]

I know the main man in Sicily personally.

2160

I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse … open mated queens €30

Good to see you here Calluna4u

[Duncan]

2. They had geared up to meet N.European demand, but 2014 was one of the best ever for getting queens mated, so demand dropped off sharply, so they had stock they needed to move.
There was vigorous advertising on the Internet from 2013 with a price of between 11 and 15 euros. They must be bad businessmen to sell something for 11 when they could easily get 25.
An Italian posted on our Facebook group that the beetle is now widespread in southern Italy. Austrian and German beekeepers have been wintering colonies in the area.

[prakel]

An Italian posted on our Facebook group that the beetle is now widespread in southern Italy. Austrian and German beekeepers have been wintering colonies in the area.

I've seen quite high figures for the number of German colonies which get overwintered in the area (related by a German beekeeper on another forum). It would be interesting to know what the current state of play is -did they get their hives shipped South this year before the beetles were discovered and if so, are those colonies still there? I can visualise problems for the Germans next summer if so many colonies are held on a stand-still order until the end of May -by when presumably at least some of them will be infested.

[Duncan]

Question is - did they take it to Germany in the spring of 2014? Probably and it just hasn't been detected yet. Presumably these colonies were all moved around without any official paperwork and their present whereabouts is unknown to the veterinary services.

[Calluna4u]

There was vigorous advertising on the Internet from 2013 with a price of between 11 and 15 euros. They must be bad businessmen to sell something for 11 when they could easily get 25.


Sorry? At 25 euros it would only be a niche market. 11 to 15 euros is just about spot on for the queens available from much of southern Europe. It is NOT an exceptional price. 12 euros in Italy, the rate going for highly selected stock bred from mothers of the clients choice, is just about the going rate, even a couple of euros less if you are happy to take ligustica type, which I was offered, and rejected, at just a shade under 9 euros. 12 euros at source translates into something like 15 to 17 pounds at UK retail level with all costs, including recaging, queen only transferred to new cage with local workers, and cages and workers from the shipments destroyed (or sent to SASA from now on), plus traders risk of losses during the process allowed for. With the competition in the main breeding areas 25 euros is pure pie in the sky. Yes, some breeders can get that for a relatively low number of queens, especially if there is something unusual about them, but they do need a background story to prize that extra out of peoples pockets. 'Relatively low' btw is a figure in the low thousands in the queen trade, and talking about breeders annual production, not order size. We are not talking about amateur or small scale numbers here. Breeders supplying smaller orders NEED the extra just to cover the not inconsiderable cost of servicing that scale of client.

One breeder I visited does 90,000 queen cells a year and states he is not anywhere near the biggest. (Nor is he anywhere near the SHB)

Another breeder offered to graft from my own chosen Scottish stock, mate them in a black bee area near the Med coast west of Monaco (so in France, but this is an Italian), and supply back at 12 euros. (Not done btw!) Bad businessmen? No, they need the volume to live from, in most years the demand is there, and that is the rate charged by their competitors. You can get the same sort of price from Spain, Portugal, Slovenia, Poland, Czech republic, Romania, Bulgaria and probably more.

Then you have the proven breeder queen market......and that's a totally different ball game. 300 pounds would not be ridiculous.

The queen trade is all about horses for courses, production scale and client sizes, and the commitment and ability of the breeder to meet customers needs.

[Calluna4u]

Question is - did they take it to Germany in the spring of 2014? Probably and it just hasn't been detected yet. Presumably these colonies were all moved around without any official paperwork and their present whereabouts is unknown to the veterinary services.

I have been in contact with my main man in the area this morning and he is going to ask around about this. First reaction was that this is a myth, at least as far as Calabria is concerned, but if anyone can find out he will. Germany is the main destination of Italian packages however and queens bred from German or Austrian mothers are the normal type supplied with them, although a high number of queenless booster packages are also shipped.

[mbc]

90,000 cells, 9€ a queen, the mind boggles at some of these figures and it truly highlights how marginal and "rare breed" our beekeeping must appear to outsiders, all the more reason to do all we can to persevere and protect what we do have imho(in my humbled opinion!).

[Michael Palmer]

Question is - did they take it to Germany in the spring of 2014? Probably and it just hasn't been detected yet. Presumably these colonies were all moved around without any official paperwork and their present whereabouts is unknown to the veterinary services.

Having SHB show up in my apiaries from neighbors with package bees and nucs from the southern US, I would say that if there were colonies of bees from Germany wintering in the infested region of Italy, there are SHB in Germany.

[fatshark]

New Year Resolution … prepare a few SHB traps from Correx …

2166

I'm scaling up ;)

Happy New Year

[gavin]

Wot?! No blood on the floor? Ah .... you've covered the stains in cardboard.

Wishing everyone an Aethina-free New Year.

[prakel]

I have been in contact with my main man in the area this morning and he is going to ask around about this. First reaction was that this is a myth, at least as far as Calabria is concerned, but if anyone can find out he will.

Any news on this?

[Calluna4u]

Nothing firm yet. He is in Sicily on holiday with one of the bee breeders there at the moment, but we will be talking in the next few days once he returns to Piemonte. Wintering in Italy is not unknown, and not the sole preserve of Germans. The SHB area (linked Sicily cases apart) is actually tiny, as I posted elsewhere it can be fitted into the Carse of Gowrie between Perth and Dundee, and he, and his contacts down there, think it unlikely there were wintering bees there last winter, and even if they were it would be doubly unlucky to have been in that area, where most migration was essentially regional and for the orange blossom flow.

[Calluna4u]

Also...as my friend points out.....it is impossible to prove a negative......in other words to prove that no incoming bees were in the area in the period in question. It is only possible to say that no-one in the area knows of any. Even then the more determined posters will raise the issue of 'are they telling the truth?'.

[prakel]

Also...as my friend points out.....it is impossible to prove a negative......

Of course, no argument with that -or the rest of your post but following the "if anyone can find out he will" line it would be interesting to hear what, if anything, he does come up with.