Zest Hive

[SteveW316]

I'm always interested when folk try to re invent the wheel... Is this just another "Top Bar" hive?

Well, That's one way of doing it!! ;)
Anyone ever used it? :confused: :confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZEqWKqidcg&feature=youtu.be&a

[fatshark]

Charles Atlas used these for his migratory beekeeping …

2146

[SteveW316]

LOL!! Maybe I should buy a few!!

[GRIZZLY]

Should be fire proof

[Jon]

Theft wise, it is not likely to be targeted by beekeepers as most would fail to recognise it as a container full of bees.
The big danger would be cowboy builders stripping them to turn into home extensions.

[gavin]

The Top Bar people must really hate those hives: top bars, bottom bars, side bars and even middle bars. About as unnatural beekeeping as you can get.

[Castor]

I'll be supplying Nationals in precast concrete from next spring.

I might just advertise this - someone will order one......

[Neils]

I have the book from the Zest guy somewhere, if you get past the first page without thinking 'why?' you're doing well

[GRIZZLY]

I seem to remember those strange frames at last years National Honey Show. Couldn't see the point. Now everything becomes clear. I guess brick supers would be a bit heavy.

[Little_John]

If you think the Zest hive is a nonsense - take a look at:
http://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=6131

A cool £750 - AND it's made from plywood ...

Thornes give a link to a .pdf where Dartington flogs HSE 'lifting advice' to death in an attempt to sell the 'design'.
Strewth - it's just a deep Long Hive with cut-down supers over. Easy enough to make your own - no need for plans, and certainly no need to shell out that kind of money for a box to keep insects in.

You'd need to sell an awful lot of over-wintered queens to make £750.

LJ

[prakel]

You'd need to sell an awful lot of over-wintered queens to make £750.

Not if you kept them for yourself :)

[fatshark]

You'd need to sell an awful lot of over-wintered queens to make £750.

Not once the import ban is imposed ;)

PS Have you seen these puppies … 'Selected breeder queens' http://www.buckfast.dk/en/order-now.html

[Little_John]

Not once the import ban is imposed ;)

PS Have you seen these puppies … 'Selected breeder queens' http://www.buckfast.dk/en/order-now.html

Strewth - that's money.

But - even the bog-standard over-wintered queens @ 160 Euros ....

I'm going back to bed - 'cause it seems like I've woken-up this morning in a parallel universe. :)

LJ

[Adam]

I have also looked at the Zest and thought, 'what's the point'. The last time I was at my association apiary the Dartington needed serious TLC and was used for putting coffee cups on. However for those with a dodgy back, some alternative hives may be great*

* Not a Zest however. :)

[The Drone Ranger]

I fairness to Rob Dartington the hive plans give a cutting list
That minimised the amount of waste and saves you buying more ply than you need
I never got around to making one though
I have the plans somewhere
The amount of work to make one would possibly explain Thornes price
Mind you they charge £36 for an Apidea which is way over anyone else

The Zest hive and the Cowpat/Sun hive are not for me

[prakel]

But - even the bog-standard over-wintered queens @ 160 Euros ....

Well, they're actually Island mated queens rather than what I would call bog-standard:


Island mated Queens
The small island of Nexeloe, situated three miles from the harbour and village named "Havnsø" on the west coast of Sea land. It is free of feral colonies and the islanders do not keep bees. That makes it is a safe location for isolated matings. 15 strong colonies headed by identical sister queens are used to produce the necessary drones, which ensures that the queen are mated with males of known parentage. Colonies remain on the island Nexelø for three weeks, and are then returned to a temporary apiary where the queen is checked and her brood is examined prior to dispatch. Island mated queens are suitable for production of F-1 queens.
Marking:
All island mated queens are line marked, often with two colors.

So, for what ever effort is involved in overwintering, including any losses during that period, they're adding an extra 35 Euros to the unit price. Doubt many would be happy paying an extra 35 Euros for the usual open mated mongrels commonly sold in the UK even if they have managed to survive the winter. But we're drifting off topic now, again, aren't we :) I reckon fatshark hit the nail on another thread with his comments about Autumn re-queening (and encouraging it); that's probably the way to establish a flourishing queen rearing trade in these islands, not by promoting the value added 'over-wintered' end of the market as the 'standard'.

[Pete L]

I reckon fatshark hit the nail on another thread with his comments about Autumn re-queening (and encouraging it); that's probably the way to establish a flourishing queen rearing trade in these islands, not by promoting the value added 'over-wintered' end of the market as the 'standard'.

I re-queen mainly in the late summer/autumn, but many of the queens required in the spring seem to be for making up nucs and doing splits.

[The Drone Ranger]

Just noticed on thornes that the Dartington assembled and empty is £375
Thats not cheap but comparing it to the cost of a WBC it probably is fair
http://www.thorne.co.uk/whats-new/whats-new-hives?product_id=6128

[fatshark]

I re-queen mainly in the late summer/autumn, but many of the queens required in the spring seem to be for making up nucs and doing splits.

Interesting Pete … I strongly suspect that a lot of the demand is for new beekeepers wanting bees NOW after doing a winter training course (and, from those that have lost stocks overwinter and see a spring nuc as a quick-fix … when better management might actually be preferable). There are a couple in our association that are talking about a better way to train beginners, with more hands-on for a season during which time they generate a nuc that they overwinter.

Bees and instant gratification are not a good combination.

[fatshark]

Pete
I meant to also ask … do you see a difference in overwintering success between late-season requeened colonies and 'older' queens? You're likely to have the numbers to back up or refute my (largely uninformed!) guess that late-season requeening might be better.

Of course, the very fact that this is what you practice would be a clue ;)

Cheers

[Little_John]

Well, they're actually Island mated queens rather than what I would call bog-standard:
.
What I meant was ... 'as opposed to breeding quality' (just checkout those prices ... !)
Maybe not a good choice of wording.



Just noticed on thornes that the Dartington assembled and empty is £375
Thats not cheap but comparing it to the cost of a WBC it probably is fair.

Maybe, but for that kind of money I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a hive made from cedar or similar, such as :
http://www.beesnblossoms.co.uk/shop/long-hive

I make my Long Hives from old planks, disused pallets etc., for around £10-15 - building them is a no-brainer - no need for plans, after all they're only simple boxes. I posted a thread about how to make 'em (based on any frame size) over on:
http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17255

Add some legs and cut-down supers, and you've got yourself a 'Dartington'. :)

LJ

[prakel]

I re-queen mainly in the late summer/autumn, but many of the queens required in the spring seem to be for making up nucs and doing splits.

This is where I think a lot of misunderstanding is creeping in with regards to the promotion of over-wintered queens. A lot of people are advocating them as replacements to imports when it might be best to be promoting the idea of re-queening later in the year and making increase the previous summer. If imports were stopped then people would simply have to adjust their expectations.

I know that a trawl through this forum will turn up posts by myself advocating selling over-wintered queens but that just shows by own lack of understanding in the past. Trying to fight imports with the promise of having our own early queens is, in my opinion, a disservice to everyone.

Maybe when he has the time Gavin could do some pruning on a couple of these threads and then re-organize the cut-offs into one new thread.

[prakel]

Maybe not a good choice of wording.

I did appreciate that, which is why I edited your name out of the quote even though it was obvious that it was from your post :)

[Little_John]

PS Have you seen these puppies … 'Selected breeder queens' http://www.buckfast.dk/en/order-now.html
So there I am - about an hour ago - staring at a shelf full of half-fat milk in Tesco's, about as far away from beekeeping as you can get ... and this thought comes into my head ...: "Selected breeder queens ?" .... but they're Buckfast !

"Selected Queens" I'd have no problem with - but "Selected Breeder Queens" ?

Buckfasts are hybrids which, by definition, will not breed true - so is this not something of a mis-description of, what are no doubt, some very fine examples of this (man-made) bee ?
LJ

[Adam]

Tesco's has that effect on people.

[gavin]

Buckfast is more like a strain that has a complex background but has settled out to a characteristic type which is more or less true breeding. Only the monks kept tinkering with it as it was always a work in progress.

A new hybrid produces offspring that are all over the place. Keep selecting for something consistent out of that mess and you end up with a stable new strain.

[fatshark]

Buckfast is more like a strain that ... is more or less true breeding.

I guess with an endorsement like that I'll not be buying any of those Buckfast breeder queens … ;)