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Little_John
22-07-2014, 09:15 AM
As some of you will know, there has just been a revival of a thread about the Russian 'Alpine' Hive, a Warre variant, and so I took the opportunity to re-visit Vladimir Homicha's site (http://www.pchelhom.ru/index/0-4).
In some respects life hasn't changed much there - it's still very difficult to comprehend either the Q&A or the Forum, due to the limitations of on-line translation. However, it was clear that at least one poster there was flogging the old idea of an open syrup feeder with floats. That is such an outdated method. I tried this ages ago, and somehow bees still managed to drown themselves.

I then switched to using overhead inverted-jar feeders, which have worked fine with full-size colonies where the jar is emptied quickly, but they tend to cause dripping over smaller nucs due to the changes in atmospheric pressure which occur with these jars of syrup being in place for much longer periods.

I then spotted the kernel of an idea from the FatBeeMan, who has been working on feeder design for many years. Using his latest design as a starting point, I was then able to develop what I consider to be as near a perfect design of syrup feeder as it's possible to make. After 3 months of field testing I can report that there's not been a single leak, drip, outbreak of robbing, and not one single bee has drowned. Although I've been focussing on small feeder units (design brief: <3.5" high, <3.5" wide, 1 pint capacity), the same principle could easily be applied to overhead feeders for full size hives with a gallon or more capacity, or even Top Bar frame feeders.


This is the 'Mark I' being trialed - loosely based on the FatBeeMan design - the problem here is that the container can't be tilted up to endure complete emptying.

http://i61.tinypic.com/2a01546.jpg


This is the 'Mark II' - now with a vertical 'stair-well' - again being trialed over a full-sized hive. It works perfectly and several are currently in use over nucs.

http://i61.tinypic.com/71iqft.jpg


This is the 'business end', showing the essential principle of the design: two walls of aluminium mesh, separated by 8mm battens. There is absolutely nowhere for the bees to go - if one should enter the syrup, then one or other of the mesh walls can be used to haul itself out.

http://i57.tinypic.com/25apue8.jpg


Finally, this is the brief I've been working to: each feeder must fit within the height of a single pallet plank's width (for ease of 'super' construction), and within the width of a half crown-board, as shown.

http://i58.tinypic.com/f02m9f.jpg

Hope this has been of interest ...

LJ

Mellifera Crofter
22-07-2014, 06:38 PM
Yes, interesting, LJ - but can't the bees get out at the sides and fly around in the eke, and then eventually into the syrup?
Kitta

GRIZZLY
23-07-2014, 08:49 AM
Kitta if you go on to the "fatbeeman" site on utube you can see him making this type of feeder. The bees are confined inside the gauze capsule. Its o.k. for small feeds but too small for say winter feeding. Fbm is working with 8 frame langstroths

Little_John
23-07-2014, 11:13 AM
Its o.k. for small feeds but too small for say winter feeding. Fbm is working with 8 frame langstroths

'As shown', you're quite right - but it would be fairly straightforward to extend the principle so that (say) the whole width of a National crown board could be used, with 8mm battens separating the 2 layers of mesh every 4" or so. The only limiting factor to capacity being the size of the plastic container employed.

But - with even my small ones - the bees can take down a pint of syrup in 24hrs. Don't ask me how they do it ... greedy little tykes :) .
LJ

Castor
29-07-2014, 09:34 PM
>> two walls of aluminium mesh, separated by 8mm battens.

Simple and effective - I like it. There's a variant on this principle I have see where mesh tubes are let down into the syrup......

Where does the team buy #8-ish mesh from in the UK? -I'm hunting for a UK supplier that isn't ludicrously overpriced.

Little_John
29-07-2014, 10:20 PM
>> two walls of aluminium mesh, separated by 8mm battens.

Simple and effective - I like it. There's a variant on this principle I have see where mesh tubes are let down into the syrup......

One of the challenges now is to find the right kind of plastic containers - I've just bought some milk from Tesco's in 6 pint containers, rather than my usual 4 pinters - and 4 of those will be cut-down to make a National top feeder with at least 1 gallon capacity, and full-width bee access from both sides of the crown board.

I also want to make a frame feeder for a top bar hive, but without losing too many 'frames' in the process - so I'm looking at using a couple of HP Sauce bottles - will lose only 2 frames with those.


Where does the team buy #8-ish mesh from in the UK? -I'm hunting for a UK supplier that isn't ludicrously overpriced.

Dunno - it's a puzzle. The ally mesh I'm using is around £12 a roll ex-Ebay, that's 3m x 0.5m (if memory serves).

I gave up trying to source new No.8 steel mesh - the only source I've ever found is that from old fire-guards at boot sales. It's not bad stuff, but isn't galvanised so needs painting, and supply is very erratic of course. Whenever I see wire fire-guards, I always buy 'em, so usually have a small stock put by.

LJ

Mellifera Crofter
30-07-2014, 09:48 AM
... Where does the team buy #8-ish mesh from in the UK? -I'm hunting for a UK supplier that isn't ludicrously overpriced.

I don't know about the price, but The Mesh Company (http://www.themeshcompany.com/products/Beekeeping-varroa-mesh.html) and Fine Mesh Metals (http://www.wovenwire.co.uk/beehive-flooring) sell mesh specifically for beekeepers.
Kitta

Castor
31-07-2014, 10:48 PM
Indeed, Kitta - but their prices are insane!

In the US --> 24" X 5' of 1/8" Wire Mesh Hardware Cloth = $9.99 - £5.92. This is a fair price for roughly a square metre - bought by the roll I'd expect to pay half that.

Fine Mesh Metals want area pro rata £24.90 for the equivalent.

I've spent a career buying engineering materials and I am becoming increasingly annoyed by the DIY industry manipulating our beliefs about "reasonable" prices. We're being scammed.

Mellifera Crofter
01-08-2014, 07:18 AM
I had no idea, Castor. Blissfully ignorant, perhaps - but not any more.
Kitta