Agoraphobic bees ...

[Little_John]

It wouldn't surprise me if you guys are starting to wonder if there isn't something very 'dodgy' in the water supply around these parts, for here is yet another story about a hive exhibiting very odd behaviour.

This one is completely the reverse of the 'swarming by instalments' hive, where the bees are active outside the box, but fairly inactive inside it - for in contrast - these bees are simply refusing to leave the hive.

The story starts very early this year with a swarm where the queen turned out to be a drone-layer, a situation which persisted for weeks despite numerous attempts to rectify the situation. Eventually, the bees were shaken out, the queen killed, and a 'test frame' installed, with the resulting virgin now awaiting a laying check.

Just after shaking those bees out, a very fine AMM queen arrived from Jon, and I needed to quickly create a suitable nuc for her introduction. Having just killed their duff queen, I knew that colony to be queenless, so I just helped myself to a frame of those bees. In retrospect, that was to be a huge mistake.

The introduction went without a hitch, and five days later I did a direct release, which again went without a hitch. But on inspection 7 days later, not only was the queen not laying, she was - for all intents and purposes - being completely ignored by the workforce, and was just wandering around looking very unloved.
The other curious thing was that I'd not seen a single bee ever leave this hive. Sure, during the inspection half-a-dozen bees took to the air, but as soon as the covers went back on, they scooted back inside, not to re-appear ...

I eventually figured that it was the colony with the problem, and not the queen - for they had lived all of their lives in a dysfunctional setting, and had never witnessed a queen laying properly. This may sound far-fetched, but I began wondering if such a protracted abnormal experience could possibly over-ride instinctive behaviour ? Anyway, that was my thinking, so I helped myself to a frame of emerging brood from a different hive and installed that - hoping it would give this problem hive a kick-start. Which it did, and on inspection today - 14 days after release - not only has the queen begun laying (phew - relief :) ), but the youngsters are making a great fuss of their queen, and so normal behaviour has been restored. Except that the original bees are still refusing to leave the hive ! But - as the colony has plenty of stores, this doesn't present an immediate problem, and anyway those cranky bees won't be living for ever.

LJ

[prakel]

I eventually figured that it was the colony with the problem, and not the queen - for they had lived all of their lives in a dysfunctional setting, and had never witnessed a queen laying properly. This may sound far-fetched
LJ

I think that you're onto something, it's my belief that colony 'heart' has a very real part to play in their well-being. Dodgy ground for me again, almost starting to sound as if I need a sunhive hanging on the allotment :) but seriously, somewhere between the pheromones and the bien there's a point where the colony is right -or not.

[Jon]

...which is why it is better to start a new colony with a few frames of healthy bees rather than trying to save old colonies with laying workers, nosemic bees or virus.
It is just more trouble than it is worth and often leads to failure anyway.

[Little_John]

Jon, I think your caution is spot on.

My guess is that the rash assumption that "any old bees will do" stems from the bees' ability to (somehow) assign to themselves the various tasks required within the hive, which can automatically lead to an assumption that instinctive behaviour must be totally dominant, and that learned behaviour - or just simple demoralisation - plays no part in the hive's future welfare. Certainly that was the trap that I fell into. Being lazy bit me on the bum. "Live and learn" ...

And so the responsibility for the hive's success (or otherwise) is so often seen as lying firmly with the queen, and yet - as an egg-laying 'machine' which needs to be both stimulated and directed - her behaviour is but a function of the well-being of the bees around her. Which is but another way of describing what Prakel is saying.

Well - I've learned a valuable lesson this week. But I don't think it'll be leading to the acquisition of a Sun-Hive though ... :)

LJ

[prakel]

And so the responsibility for the hive's success (or otherwise) is so often seen as lying firmly with the queen, and yet - as an egg-laying 'machine' which needs to be both stimulated and directed - her behaviour is but a function of the well-being of the bees around her. Which is but another way of describing what Prakel is saying.

There's another recent thread where this subject has come up:

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1758-How-long-should-I-give-a-vigin-to-start-laying&p=26364&highlight=comb#post26364


Well - I've learned a valuable lesson this week. But I don't think it'll be leading to the acquisition of a Sun-Hive though ... :)

...It may. . . . . !!

[Little_John]

There's another recent thread where this subject has come up:

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/sh...comb#post26364


I'm looking at this from the perspective that a colony can become 'lethargic', effectively loosing heart after being left brood-less for a while, now, it strikes me that there may be a component here that see's these disheartened bees effectively ignoring the newly mated queen. With the addition of brood the colony returns to a more stable 'right' condition

How did I miss this ? This is exactly what I've been describing ...

So - I'll 'do a Castor' and ask: "how come this isn't written about in any of the major beekeeping books ?" - of course it might be, but I certainly don't remember having read anything about it.

LJ

[Black Comb]

I remember reading somewhere (can't remember where) that laying worker colonies are lethargic.
My own observations confirm this, as regrettably I've had a few in this situation in the past.
Perhaps the new queen needs help to snap them out of their torpor.

[Adam]

It could be that the bees in the hive are genetically 'a bit crap' although it's usual for a queen to get them going.

Occasionally a colony seem to have a death wish and never comes good. Maybe there's nosema or viruses there.??