Bees swarmed for 15 mins into tree high up then went back to hive

[JohnnyD]

Does anyone know why they would do this ?

JD

[HJBee]

Possibly the queen did not make it with them and they lost her scent and went back? Was she clipped?

[JohnnyD]

Possibly the queen did not make it with them and they lost her scent and went back? Was she clipped?

No not clipped, does that mean they will try again soon?

JD

[HJBee]

Not sure then if the queen wasn't clipped. Are there any sealed queen cells in the hive?

[nellyp]

I suspect that for what ever reason they swarmed with out her may be a false swarm or could have been VQ orientating or on a mating flight ?

[JohnnyD]

ah well, they tried again the next day, and succeeded this time........I don't know why, that hive was already a new hive from a swarm last month, i just wish the buggers would stay put

:(

JD

[JohnnyD]

shouldn't swarming have stopped by now, another hive swarmed today, i now have 4 hives .....yikes, I added supers at the weekend to my existing in case they were short of space......

JD

[fatshark]

The main season is over, but they can go on for some time yet. I caught one on Saturday that had swarmed and - because the Q was clipped - had ended up under the hive. I knocked them into a new box with a single frame of drawn comb and the queen had laid much of it when I checked them late Sunday afternoon. I've left one charged QC in the original box.

However - and whisper this - neither Q has a long-term future with me. Both are too yellow and both swarm too much. I have some of their distant relatives - darker, smaller and of Northern descent almost ready … ;)

PS Of course, you don't have to end up with 4 colonies … you can unite and keep the best. Far better to go into the winter with a small number of really strong colonies rather than a larger number of weak ones.

[JohnnyD]

How does one unite? Given I can't seem to keep them in one hive, seems like a monstrous task ATM .....

JD

[fatshark]

Easy. Choose your best queen. Leave her alone. Find the Q that is no longer wanted. Give her away (or if really swarmy stock sacrifice her - or you're giving the problem to someone else). If neither box has supers on put one brood box on top of the other with a sheet of newspaper between, with a couple of very small holes (edge of hive tool) in the paper. Leave them a week. They chew through the paper and unite peacefully.

I don't think it makes a difference whether the Q+ hive is on top or below. However, I usually have the queenright and stronger colony below. If there are supers on you can leave them in place on the bottom box, with newspaper over the top then the second brood box. Remember that the drones will get stuck this way as they can't get through the QE. After a week I rearrange the brood into the bottom box if I can. If you leave the top box in place they'll fill it with stores - this might be what you want (I keep these for making up nucs).

If they're really that swarmy consider re-queening. Bees that just make bees really aren't the best, and colonies constantly swarming are a drain on equipment and your patience. I also think it's good practice to have clipped queens - it doesn't stop them, but it does delay them, and it means you're not causing problems for neighbours (though other local beekeepers might miss the freebees ;) ).

Longer term … consider getting involved in queen rearing. This might seem far fetched at the moment, but it allows you to select the traits you want and (and I think this aspect is undervalued) it makes you realise that queens are nearly worthless unless they have those traits. It wasn't until I started queen rearing that I discovered that a queen that didn't head a colony with good characteristics was actually almost less use to me than no queen at all. So, rather than keeping that stock going, sacrifice the queen and unite with another colony. Which is pretty much where this post started :)

[JohnnyD]

Many thanks for that explanation, makes total sense, for reasons i won't go into, I was unable to move this new swarm's hive to its destination with the other hives, but i do need to move it, given its been here for 2 days, can i still move it tonight when all the bees have returned to the bottom of the garden, its currently quite near the conservatory door and in the way, should I leave it sealed tonight after i move it ? I don't want the bees navigating back to where the hive currently is ;)

Mant Thanks

JD

[fatshark]

Now I'm lost … is this one to be united or not? It also reads as though the conservatory door is at the bottom of the garden. Whatever. Move it and make sure the new site is distinctive - for example, lean a big leafy branch across the entrance so that the bees are forced to reorientate. Don't leave it sealed after moving it.

[JohnnyD]

I am not going to unite yet, the new swarm seems strong, my hives are at the bottom of the garden and the swarmed hive has been at the top of the garden for 2 days (near the conservatory door), but i need to move it back to the bottom with the others, i will place some branches across the entrance one moved tonight. Many Thanks :)

JD