Uniting colonies

[snimmo243]

I'm "planning" to unite two colonies to take to the heather, but I have two queries.
Firstly when would be the best time to do this in advance of going to the heather?
Secondly, one colony is established and has a queen I wish to remove whilst the other colony has a queen from this year which is mated and laying, however the colonies are about 100 + metres apart. Do I need to gradually bring them together or if I do it after flying has stopped and put the moved hive above the paper will this suffice?

Steven

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[gavin]

Hi Steven

1. If you are going to shuffle frames into one box, I'd do it a fortnight before so that they have time to settle before you rearrange frames. However if your new queen hasn't been laying long give her time to get established before doing this. On the other hand some would unite quickly with the aid of a scented spray but that isn't going to help the re-orientation thing.

2. Seems too far to move in small hops. The moved colony over the newspaper may work, can't promise though. Is going to the heather site early and uniting there an option? Will there be alternative forage to entertain them until the heather comes out - clover, bramble, bell heather?

3. I know, only two questions. The bell heather seems early this year. The only year recently when Aug 12th was about right was a recent cold, slow summer - get them on the heather in late July.

G.

[Adam]

Can you move one colony 3 miles away for a week or more, and then bring it close to the other colony?

[snimmo243]

Thanks guys! As I said it was a plan but things have changed. Charged queen cells today so one a/s carried out and I had to tear down the cells in the other main colony as I've ran out of equipment. I started the year with 2 colonies I've now got 4 queen right, a queen right nuc and the newly created a/s so I could end up with 5 or 6 colonies!

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[Jon]

So much for 'the bees are dying'
There must be a massive increase in UK colony numbers this year.
I would easily expect to double my numbers by the end of the summer.
Most people had bees come out of the winter really strong and there seem to be more swarms than usual.

[snimmo243]

So much for 'the bees are dying'
There must be a massive increase in UK colony numbers this year.
I would easily expect to double my numbers by the end of the summer.
Most people had bees come out of the winter really strong and there seem to be more swarms than usual.
if all my splits workout I will have increased threefold

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[fatshark]

Re. uniting … I've never really bothered about the 3 feet/ 3 mile rule when doing this as I reckon the disturbance of the new neighbours downstairs is enough to make them reorientate anyway. I've not got any apiaries with colonies 100+ metres apart, but within a single apiary I just move the queenless colony on top of the other and let them get on with it. I'm not aware it's ever been a problem.

I realise the problem has resolved …

Finally, more bees than I know what to do with here. In addition to three frame nucs from queen rearing, with lots more on the way, I've had swarms in five of six bait hives I've left out. I've got some very generous beekeeping neighbours … ;)

[snimmo243]

Re. uniting … I've never really bothered about the 3 feet/ 3 mile rule when doing this as I reckon the disturbance of the new neighbours downstairs is enough to make them reorientate anyway. I've not got any apiaries with colonies 100+ metres apart, but within a single apiary I just move the queenless colony on top of the other and let them get on with it. I'm not aware it's ever been a problem.

I realise the problem has resolved …

Finally, more bees than I know what to do with here. In addition to three frame nucs from queen rearing, with lots more on the way, I've had swarms in five of six bait hives I've left out. I've got some very generous beekeeping neighbours … ;)
I suppose my original questions are still valid as I will need to unite colonies it's just not going to be according to "the plan". someone needs to breed obedient book reading bees :-)

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[Little_John]

[...] I've never really bothered about the 3 feet/ 3 mile rule ... [...]

Me neither. Bees learn very quickly, and providing that they are 'informed' that their location has just changed, then they'll quickly re-learn that new position. From time to time I move boxes anywhere from 6 to 600 feet, and I find that putting a seriously big branch of Leylandii over the hive entrance for a few days invariably ensures that all but an obstinate handful re-adjust.

This old chestnut that bees have some kind of indelible memory of their hive's position, if true, would render swarming to any new location to be an unsuccessful exercise ... :)
LJ

[Neils]

I was under the impression that bee memory was thought to be in the region of about 48 hours at most

[madasafish]

I was under the impression that bee memory was thought to be in the region of about 48 hours at most

Like dementia sufferers then..

Quote Originally Posted by Jon
So much for 'the bees are dying'
There must be a massive increase in UK colony numbers this year.
I would easily expect to double my numbers by the end of the summer.
Most people had bees come out of the winter really strong and there seem to be more swarms than usual.
if all my splits workout I will have increased threefold


A lady I know started with 3 x nationals this year - she was a beginner last. She now has 11 hives...(And struggling a bit)..

I took one swarm from her - she could not handle more..

[gavin]

At least the splitting mania is a stage on the way from leave-alone out-of-control beekeeping to the productive way when your colonies are less swarmy and/or more controlled. Sorcerer's Apprentice stuff, to which I'm still prone (but I suppose I justify it by raising nucs for sale and identifying colonies with good traits for breeding).

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qZmf9l-HC1A/SvRqAkTwvwI/AAAAAAAADvQ/vurxz6ZwxUE/s640/224.jpg

[snimmo243]

A wee update on my plans, the clipped queen I had that swarmed and made it into my bait hive has since swarmed again, this time she didn't get away and the bees returned to the colony. I plan to unite this with a colony raised this year containing her daughter. Only thing is the bait hive is a smith and the other hive is commercial so I came up with a new converter, adding rungs to a commercial eke ti accept the smith frames, when Patrick my colleague built it we realised we'd reinvented the national brood box :$

[Black Comb]

Hope you don't mind if I jump i to this thread re. uniting snimmo.

What are opinions on whether to remove the queen 24 hours before uniting with the queen right colony?
Some books do not mention any delay, other say it is necessary.
Must admit, I have never bothered with any delay, OK so far.