Here's another thing - my Queen is Stunned!

[Castor]

Dear Team,

Two weeks ago I used my new "one-handed queen marker" jobbie - which is brilliant, by the way - to catch up on the queen marking chores.

We approached my wife's favourite hive which of course contains her favourite queen - found said queen and marked her in the usual fashion.

She froze. Stopped dead. No Movement - nay so much as a twitch of an antenna or limb. Respiration continued, but she looked on her last legs..
Needless to say, my other half was frosty at best. "You killed my favourite queen. I expect you did it deliberately"..... etc etc etc.....

I could not see for the life of me what I had done to cause this. The joy of the "one-handed queen marker" jobbie is that it enables ham fisted hoolies like myself to do this delicate task without the crunch of carapace accompaniment, and all had been very gentle and controlled during the marking.

Five minutes later she was still inert, on the mesh on the bottom of the hive, surrounded by her concerned acolytes.

I put the lid on and ran away, the chiding of "Regicidal Maniac" coming from my dear wife ringing in my ears.

A week later we looked, assuming either supersedure or emergency queen cells..... but the Queen is there! Alive and kicking! She has laid several entire frames of brood during the week, and she looks as fit as I have ever seen a mongrel Queen.

Wifey still hasn't forgiven me though....


Any ideas, team?

[fatshark]

Change your wife … the queen sounds like a good 'un.

[Little_John]

Although not common, it's not unknown for queens to feign injury or death when handled - must be some kind of 'defence mechanism', I guess. But - a bit unnerving if it's your first time experiencing such an event ... LJ

[Castor]

I've never heard of the playing possum thing.... wow.

[Jimbo]

Yep! had this a few times while marking queens. They don't mention it in the books but acting dead is not the same as being dead which happen'd to me while showing a new beekeeper how to mark queens. The queen stopped moving and I explained to the new beekeeper, don't worry they sometimes act dead and replaced the frame quickly knowing I would need to come back a few days later to sort out the emergency queen cells produced

[Little_John]

I've never heard of the playing possum thing.... wow.

What you've described is mentioned in:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-270699.html

and fairly recently, I remember, over on the 'barefoot' site:
http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16166 (posts 5 and 7)

Some people, like Michael Bush, consider it fairly commonplace - yet others haven't seen it happen even once in 15 or 20 years of beekeeping.

It's an odd one all right - I've yet to hear a really definitive explanation as to exactly why it happens.

LJ

[Castor]

WELL IT GAVE ME THE WILLIES.

Not to mention being sent out into the cold by the other half.
And this is perfectly normal behaviour, huh?

So how can I get my own back - on both the wife and the bee?

[HJBee]

You could try playing dead too!

[gavin]

Lol! Post of the week!

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

[Little_John]

So I've done some mooching around - only to dig up the same story each time - "it's fairly rare, but not unknown", "no-one knows the cause for certain", "tends to happen only to young queens" - with the best being: "most frequently reported by those handling thousands of queens". (Errr - if it's a rare phenomenon, then you'd expect those handling thousands of queens to have seen this happen more often ... !)

So here's a few more links:
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18429
http://hrbka.org.uk/news/fainting-queens.html
http://honeybeeclubofstillwater.blogspot.co.uk/2014_06_01_archive.html

Most folks seem to be putting it down to temporary anoxia, caused by squeezing ... but it would seem that Jay Smith may have uncovered the mystery - for it appears that in certain manipulations involving the queen, it is possible for the queen to sting herself in the leg - and it is thus the queen's own venom which causes 'the faint'.

For the full story: http://www.bbka.org.uk/members/forum.php?t=4344 (last post)

But, it's curious that this phenomenon is so seldom mentioned on beekeeping courses or in otherwise quite comprehensive text books on the craft.

LJ

[gavin]

Are you trying to tell me that other fora have had better discussions on a topic than this one?! That will never do.

At least one had the thread entitled 'Feinting queens' which opens a whole new can of worms ....

I've never seen this myself, but then perhaps my queens are not quite so stupid as to sting themselves in the foot.

[gavin]

Perhaps it isn't stupidity, more of an attempt at ending it all, overcome by depression at the situation it finds itself in (overcrowded Apidea, neonic-soaked landscape, apiary of a gauntleted bee crusher, or something like that).

I once had a queen with knees like a pincushion and even a bee's head attached to a joint. Jon runs a line with Gammy Legs, (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?631-It-s-me-gammy-leg!) maybe something genetic but perhaps more likely a tendency to incite limb-stinging?

[Jon]

The gammy leg thing is most likely caused by a worker stinging a queen when she returns from a mating flight.
The feinting queen can go round several defenders like George Best, nutmegging the final one before depositing an egg in a vacant cell.

[Trog]

My queens are stunning :D

[my only contribution to this thread and a not particularly sensible one ..]

[Castor]

Most folks seem to be putting it down to temporary anoxia, caused by squeezing ... but it would seem that Jay Smith may have uncovered the mystery - for it appears that in certain manipulations involving the queen, it is possible for the queen to sting herself in the leg - and it is thus the queen's own venom which causes 'the faint'.

For the full story: http://www.bbka.org.uk/members/forum.php?t=4344 (last post)

But, it's curious that this phenomenon is so seldom mentioned on beekeeping courses or in otherwise quite comprehensive text books on the craft.

LJ

That's a fascinating link LJ - this particular queen did *not* like being caught - her attendants beat a quick retreat from my "one-handed queen catching thingummyjig" and Q was twisting and turning in all directions......and now I think back, she was curling - this is consistent with Jay's observations and highly plausible in my view.

It's either that or gin.

[Castor]

You could try playing dead too!

I am currently trying this approach, but my wife is ignoring it. She says there is little appreciable difference between the live and the dead states.

[HJBee]

Ooooh - harsh!

[Little_John]

You could always try pointing out that it wasn't your bee that was daft enough to sting itself in the foot - but hers.

But of course the problem with that approach is that you could well end up on Ha-Rann (1). :(

LJ



(1) Half Rations And No Nookie.

[lindsay s]

Yesterday I was visiting a different apiary for the first time, the owners have been beekeepers for 3½ years and I went to see how they were getting on. It was nice to observe them examining the hives and be able to pass on some advice. A. and J. said they were going to try and mark queens for the first time. I offered them a crown of thorns but A. was keen to pick up the queen and mark her in his hands. All went well with the first queen but the second queen was a bit more flighty and landed on his leg before he was able to catch and mark her. A. was just about to put the queen back on the frame I was holding when she keeled over in his hand and stopped moving. I set the frame flat on top of the brood box and A. popped the queen on it, she was soon surrounded by bees but was still not moving. We all thought she had snuffed it and with this being A’s first time marking he felt responsible. Then I told them about this thread on the forum and we hoped all was not lost so we left the queen on the frame and went on to examine the last hive while keeping an eye on her. After about 10-12 minutes the queen started to move and a few minutes later she was walking over the frame so we decided to close up the hive as she looked OK. This is the first time in over 30 years of beekeeping that I’ve ever seen anything like this happen and if I hadn’t read this thread I wouldn’t have believed my own eyes. I’ve told A. and J. to check the hive this weekend to see if she is OK.
P.S. I was in a posh food and wine shop today (it was that posh I think I entered by mistake) and I was well and truly stunned when I saw 4oz jars of local honey for sale at £3.99 !!!

[Castor]

So how come this isn't in every book? Or is it that the internet now allows common experience to be captured?

And that price for local honey doesn't surprise me - I live in royals territory in Gloucestershire, and the wannabees will pay anything - the more the better it seems. Eejits.

[Jon]

A lot of the stuff in well regarded bee texts is just inaccurate.
Our beginners were being taught that a queen always stops laying a few days before a swarm emerges therefore if you see queen cells and eggs the queen must still be in the box.
I was with the course tutor the other week when we found a swarm from a hive with a clipped queen and I showed her the eggs in the hive.
The swarm had just left and was on the ground beside the hive.
In my experience the queen is laying right up until the moment of the swarm leaving, albeit at a reduced rate.

[The Drone Ranger]

So how come this isn't in every book? Or is it that the internet now allows common experience to be captured?

And that price for local honey doesn't surprise me - I live in royals territory in Gloucestershire, and the wannabees will pay anything - the more the better it seems. Eejits.

Hi Castor

Robert Couston "Principles of Practical Beekeeping" 1971 and reprinted 1990
He mentions the old dead fainting trick p33
Actually its a very good book lots of info

[lindsay s]

Robert Couston "Principles of Practical Beekeeping" 1971 and reprinted 1990
He mentions the old dead fainting trick p33
Actually its a very good book lots of info
I’ve dusted of the book D.R. but I can’t find it on page 33. It looks like I’ll have to reread the whole book. I’ve just had an update on my friends fainting queen and all is well with the colony. Queenie should be up for the best actress Oscar!