Essential oils

[Mellifera Crofter]

I've never used essential oils as a masking smell. Does anybody have advice here - what oil to use, and are there oils to avoid? How much should I use? Can I use too much? Have you used it instead of the newspaper method when uniting hives?

Kitta

[brothermoo]

I think any essential oils would mask the hive smells, I was listening to some bee lectures on YouTube and the guy was saying thymol, tea tree, lemongrass etc actually have a big effect on the microbial balance of the colony. So surely it would work. Tho why not use a sheet of newspaper? Tried and tested and cheaper!

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[fatshark]

I've done this when rushed to unite bees … I just put a drop or two of whatever was to hand in a water mister, sprayed both the recipient colony and the frame being inserted, worked just fine. I can't remember what I've used (but know it wasn't lemongrass) but suspect it was something like juniper oil, patchouli oil or perhaps even vanilla essence. I use the essential oils in leather polish as well. Don't go buying them from Holland and Barrett or equivalent shops on the high street as they're five times the price for an indistinguishable product (at least by my hooter) from eBay (check Mother Natures Goodies perhaps, but I'm sure there are lots of others).

[Mellifera Crofter]

... why not use a sheet of newspaper? Tried and tested and cheaper!


... sprayed both the recipient colony and the frame being inserted, worked just fine. ...

Thanks Brothermoo and Fatshark. I think I have some vanilla essence I can use.

I usually use the newspaper method, BM - but I have to take care of a laying worker hive and thought that I might try to divide the frames from that hive among all my other hives so that each hive receives just one frame. I thought using a mister with essential oil might be easier than wrapping each frame in newspaper. It sounds as though that's what you have done, Fatshark, but perhaps for another reason - is that right?

This hive went into winter with a laying worker (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1471-Very-late-season-drone-layers&highlight=drone+layer) and I thought they would have dwindled away - but they're still going strong. I checked yesterday and there's only drone brood although no drones have yet hatched. I thought dividing the frames might be kinder than just dumping them all out on the ground. I also thought that with just one frame per hive the laying worker might not have enough support to threaten the queen ... Or I might just dump the bees on the two frames with brood on the ground and hope the laying worker is among them and divide the other frames among the hives. I don't yet know what I'll do ...

Kitta

[fatshark]

Hi Kitta
I've done it for different reasons … often stuffing mini-nuc frames, brood and workers into production colonies at the end of the queen rearing season.

What are your Varroa levels like? If high, it'll all be in that drone brood. Not sure I'd want to be adding that to the recipient colony(ies). Perhaps better to spray the adhering workers with the mister, do the same with the recipient colony and then shake them in. Of course, if you're lucky enough to have no Varroa you can ignore this safely.

I thought that 'laying workers' is usually plural i.e. there's more than one in there. I've always shaken them out rather than risk the queen. At this time of year, with the Spring build-up about to kick off I'd avoid risking damaging any functional hives … they might be plucky devils having got through the winter, but that doesn't mean they won't wreak havoc if they get the chance.

I have a friend here who never kills queens … irrespective of the characteristics of the hives they head. He has some terrible colonies. I'm afraid we have to be a bit hard hearted sometimes … :(

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks Fatshark. I'll follow your advice and shake them out on the next good flying day.

I haven't seen any varroa all winter in any of the hives. I think the hive is clear of varroa.

Kitta

[brothermoo]

Was doing a bit of reading on the web last night and I saw this on Michael Bush's site:

----A laying worker hive has many laying workers. The only way to fix the problem is get them so disrupted they will accept a queen or give them enough pheromones from open worker brood to suppress the laying workers enough to get them to accept a queen. In other words, give them a frame of open brood every week until they rear a queen.

"Shaking out a laying worker hive works because the laying worker gets left behind because she doesn't know her way home."

I have not found this to be true and the research I've read says it's not true. There are many of them and they will find their way back. Shaking out a hive only works because you have disheartened them enough that in the chaos they will sometimes accept a queen----

I have no experience of it myself. As fatshark says that drone brood might have a few generations of varroa in each cell so maybe sacrificing them is worthwhile?
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[Rosie]

In this case I would give them an occasional frame of worker brood to keep them afloat until there are drones and queen cells around. Then I would give them a protected queen cell and leave them to sort themselves out.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks for the interesting reference to Michael Bush's website, Brothermoo, and your advice, Rosie. It's been cold on my hill, so I haven't yet shaken out the bees. I now think it will be interesting to add a frame of worker brood and see what happens (and I'll escape feeling upset about seeing all the bees of that hive dumped out in the apiary). So, as soon as it gets warmer, I'll find a frame of worker brood for them. Thanks.
Kitta

[GRIZZLY]

Kitta, why don't you colour mark some of the workers in the laying worker hive then dump them some way away from your hive. That way you can test the theory that they return. I've found that a severe case of laying workers is irretrievable and is best dumped at some distance away The theory is that the laying workers become too heavy with eggs to fly. Check it out with marked bees.

[Jimbo]

on the few occasions when I have had a laying worker colony I have removed the hive some distance from the other colonies and shaken out the bees. The shaken out bees will fly back to the orginal site to find no hive and then go to the remaining good hives to get in. I have not noticed any significant fighting and no effect on the good colonies except in boosting the worker numbers.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks Grizzly and Jimbo.

It seems to me people are talking about two different kinds of dumping of bees: Leave the original hive and - perhaps - the laying workers might not find their way home, for whatever reason. If you only have one hive, then I suppose you can try this. The other is to remove the hive as Jimbo said. A laying worker that turns up at another hive might not be a threat at all or even stand a chance to be admitted. Marking the workers might be interesting then, Grizzly, to see where they end up.

But now I have to make a red-faced admission to make: The hive has a drone-laying queen. I noticed yesterday that the eggs lie nicely in the centre of the cells, and then I found her - quite tiny - and like your friend, Fatshark, I marked her instead of squashing her! I gave them a frame with some eggs, so I'll see what happens - but killing her and uniting might be the best option. It is curious though that they survived so well. This makes me wonder whether she might be laying some worker brood as well - I just haven't seen them. When the weather is better I'll have a proper look.

Kitta

[nemphlar]

I tried it once the year previously where I had a queen I didn't like. I used some vanilla essence from the cupboard mixed with water. Removed the old queen with frame and placed the new queen from a nuc with a frame of bees in the middle of the hive. The new frame was sprayed along with the frames either side then pushed together, she survived and I didn't see any squabbling. Whether it was the essence or the good soaking who knows. Usually I'd use the newspaper method to add a queen.